[pnj]

I have not. does it say in there that the followers must kill their enemies?

I found this cool site, but no usefull info..

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/

 

[H8R]

# [2.191] And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

 

[H8R]

[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

 

[H8R]

[4.93] And whoever kills a believer intentionally, his punishment is hell; he shall abide in it, and Allah will send His wrath on him and curse him and prepare for him a painful chastisement.

 

[H8R]

The theme I'm gettting here is:

Kill the unbelievers, don't kill the believers.

That was just a cursory search though.

 

[stevew]

Nope.

 

[BikeGeek]

The theme I'm gettting here is:

Kill the unbelievers, don't kill the believers.

Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah...the Crusades.

 

[valve bouncer]

Does it have pictures? PD forum mate, come on.........

 

[Toshi]

Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah...the Crusades.

with inspiration from the whole old testament. see "landover baptist", exhibit a

 

[pnj]

Does it have pictures? PD forum mate, come on.........

does what have pictures?

 

[valve bouncer]

does what have pictures?

"Have you read the Koran"........ come on mate.

 

[Westy]

"Have you read the Koran"........ come on mate.

97.3

Ther percentage of VB's posts that include the word "Mate".

 

[valve bouncer]

97.3

Ther percentage of VB's posts that include the word "Mate".

OK, that made me laugh "dude".

 

[johnbryanpeters]

OK, that made me laugh "dude".

Were you ROTFL?

 

[DHS]

yes i've actually read a lot of it.

why this is still funny
www.tshirthell.com

 

[pnj]

yes i've actually read a lot of it.

why this is still funny
www.tshirthell.com

did you mean this

http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=490

 

[Hawkeye]

No I haven't read it but I have flushed one or two down the toliet.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Hmmm, where have I heard that before? Oh yeah...the Crusades.

Except the Crusades were not considered Holy Scripture. Please note I'm not making excuses for it, in fact I'm inclined to apologize for them, but don't equate them with Scripture as the Muslims consider the Koran.

 

[Potroast88]

I think I'll wait for the movie.

 

[pnj]

The theme I'm gettting here is:

Kill the unbelievers, don't kill the believers.

That was just a cursory search though.

so should I be worried about the muslims i work with?

they seem pretty nice and even speak better english then I do....

 

[Andyman_1970]

with inspiration from the whole old testament.

With all due respect you're demonstrating you ignorance of both the Hebrew Scriptures and their hierarchy.

The instances of killing in the OT are part of the OT that is considered a narrative, which is different from what the Torah is considered which are binding commandments to the Jewish people. The other books of the OT other than the Torah (with the exception of the Prophets) are not binding commandments.

So again to equate the OT narratives of killing with that of the Koran are hermeneutically inaccurate at best.

 

[JRogers]

With all due respect you're demonstrating you ignorance of both the Hebrew Scriptures and their hierarchy.

The instances of killing in the OT are part of the OT that is considered a narrative, which is different from what the Torah is considered which are binding commandments to the Jewish people. The other books of the OT other than the Torah (with the exception of the Prophets) are not binding commandments.

So again to equate the OT narratives of killing with that of the Koran are hermeneutically inaccurate at best.

True....but I think the important question is if parts of the OT were used for justification for the crusades. I don't know, not my area, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were true...justified or not.

 

[Prechrysler]

The theme I'm gettting here is:

Kill the unbelievers, don't kill the believers.

That was just a cursory search though.

Only the militant muslims go to that extreme, of which I last heard there were approximately 300,000,000 of. The other billion are relatively peaceful. People of the book are ok (Jews and Christians), as long as they acknowledge Islam as numero uno. People of other religions not of the book must convert to Islam or face the consequences.

 

[Reactor]

Except the Crusades were not considered Holy Scripture. Please note I'm not making excuses for it, in fact I'm inclined to apologize for them, but don't equate them with Scripture as the Muslims consider the Koran.

No, but Pope Innocent justified the crusades by using the scripture to justify his position that non-christians didn't have souls, and were therefore not covered by the "Thou shall not kill". Hmmm... sounds just like some Mullahs.

Religious extremists can ALWAYS justify their position by quoting a sufficient number of verses of scripture out of context.

 

[Reactor]

so should I be worried about the muslims i work with?

they seem pretty nice and even speak better english then I do....

In general (oh, do I hate that phrase) most muslims are extremely dedicated to their religion and show far more self control, and follow the tenants of their religion far more closely than most other groups. Americian evangalistic Christian groups are among the worst at following the basic tenants of their religion.

You probably have nothing to worry about.

This whole thread should probably be in the political area.

 

[vibiker]

Oh yeah...the Crusades.

So how many centuries do we need to go back to find this one? :nuts:

 

[Andyman_1970]

No, but Pope Innocent justified the crusades by using the scripture to justify his position that non-christians didn't have souls, and were therefore not covered by the "Thou shall not kill". Hmmm... sounds just like some Mullahs.

The Bible was misused and incorrectly interpreted to justify slavery in the US at one time as well, but that’s the problem incorrect interpretation, if one were to follow the basic hermeneutical rules this is not a problem.

The Koran it seems (and I may be wrong) seems quite literal about this issue, that it is a command rather than a narrative…………that seems to be the difference.

Religious extremists can ALWAYS justify their position by quoting a sufficient number of verses of scripture out of context.

I agree……………..

 

[Andyman_1970]

Americian evangalistic Christian groups are among the worst at following the basic tenants of their religion.

You are quite correct, which is why we have people who claim to be Christians and yet act in very unChristianlike manner. This IMO is a result of the over emphasis of belief, and if you just believe the right things all will be well. Belief is important, don’t get me wrong, but belief that is not manifested in everyday action is worthless.

The problem with evangelical Christianity in the US today is that there is a huge emphasis on being right (pun intended) and proving those pagan liberals wrong, rather than living rightly and changing the world (even in a small way) through the way they live.

When I hear things like only 5% of evangelical Christians in the US polled would give money to help AIDS orphans in Africa it makes me VERY ashamed to be a member of such church (which I am).

Anyway………..sorry for the rant………………..

 

[Reactor]

You are quite correct, which is why we have people who claim to be Christians and yet act in very unChristianlike manner. This IMO is a result of the over emphasis of belief, and if you just believe the right things all will be well. Belief is important, don’t get me wrong, but belief that is not manifested in everyday action is worthless.

The problem with evangelical Christianity in the US today is that there is a huge emphasis on being right (pun intended) and proving those pagan liberals wrong, rather than living rightly and changing the world (even in a small way) through the way they live.

When I hear things like only 5% of evangelical Christians in the US polled would give money to help AIDS orphans in Africa it makes me VERY ashamed to be a member of such church (which I am).

Anyway………..sorry for the rant………………..

WOW!, it sound like we are on the same page. I admire the dedication of people who sincerely believe and follow their religion, whatever it is. What makes me sick to my stomach is hypocritical people who use religion claim they are somehow better than other people, forment hate, justify harrassing other people.

 

[N8 v2.0]

WOW!, it sound like we are on the same page. I admire the dedication of people who sincerely believe and follow their religion, whatever it is. What makes me sick to my stomach is hypocritical people who use religion claim they are somehow better than other people, forment hate, justify harrassing other people.

Just why do you think religion was invented my mankind in the first place if not for the reasons stated above???

:angry:

 

[Westy]

How come god has not divinely inspired anyone to update or write additions to these religious documents in the past thousand years or so. Seems like they can use a bit of cleaning up.

 

[N8 v2.0]

How come god has not divinely inspired anyone to update or write additions to these religious documents in the past thousand years or so. Seems like they can use a bit of cleaning up.

He has!!!!


Please read the Book of Mormon.

 

[Andyman_1970]

............. people who use religion claim they are somehow better than other people, forment hate, justify harrassing other people.

Interestingly enough, these were the people that Jesus had the biggest "beef" with and relentlessly spoke against.

I've notinced interestingly enough that most "fire and brimstone" evangelical fundamentalist preachers won't or don't preach all the way, verse by verse through any of the Gospels (esspecially Matthew, it's too Jewish). When you read the Gospels it's clear that Jesus' teaching are contrary to what and how they preach.

 

[Andyman_1970]

He has!!!
Please read the Book of Mormon.

ROTFLOL....................

 

[Reactor]

Just why do you think religion was invented my mankind in the first place if not for the reasons stated above???

:angry:

You mean, there may be a reason other than divine intervention for the creation of a mysoginistic, hierarchical organization of blindly obedient followers? :mumble:

 

[N8 v2.0]

ROTFLOL....................

Hey now... it's no more silly than the first two volumes.

 

[Andyman_1970]

..... a mysoginistic, hierarchical organization of blindly obedient followers?

I can't comment on other world religions, but with regards to Judaism/Christianity you realize that although that may be the perception of said religions these days, it is not in fact an accurate representation of their core beliefs and doctrine.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Hey now... it's no more silly than the first two volumes.

All faith and doctrine aside, from a purely historical point is view it is quite hilarious.

 

[N8 v2.0]

All faith and doctrine aside, from a purely historical point is view it is quite hilarious.

It all badly written boring rubbish... that's why I stick with the Greek Myths.

 

[Andyman_1970]

It all badly written boring rubbish....

I'm not going to get in a try to prove you wrong match, but the BOM is shall we say more badly written (spelling errors, obvious plagiarizing, etc) than the orginal two volumes you mention.