[BIGHITR]

Okay, I ride my bike basically one season. Still have original Hayes Mag Nine brake pads on it, plenty of pad left. Brake slowly over time I notice the handle on the front left side pulling further and further back. I see no leaks. As of this weekend, the lever all the way to the handlebar, NO front brake. Pissed.

Take ride with rear brake only, almost slide out on turn and go off into the woods, decide, it's time to figure out what's wrong with the brake. Call my LBS says it's not covered under lifetime adjustments, it's wear and tear. I decide to use my brake bleed kid, hayes of course. I put FULL bottle through the brake line, from brake caliper bike up right, towards handlebar, back into a catch bottle. See NO bubbles at all after squeezing 3/4 of DOT into it, pull the plug out, screw tiny screw back in, no brakes.

Try it again, second time, do the same thing, only this time, I pull the plug out that is feeding back into the catch bottle and let the fluid go all over the place coming out of the hole, and put screw in, WHILE squeezing the bottle to insure no bubbles get in the line, tight screw, try it again... nothing.

So, brand new Hayes Brakes, mag nines, Never seen a leak, no reside on handle bar OR in the line leading too or at the brake. CLEAN PARTS!

What' the problem? Piston? Bad Hayes brake?

I hardly rode the bike. Bought it in January 2008. Summer of '08 I rode my light bike till July to get into shape before lugging a 48 lbs bike up hill everyday but when I did in July I had a huge problem with the bike. Due to a bad situation with a pair of CRAPPY ASS bontrager flagship wheels, King Earls that came on the bike, the hub broke 20 minutes into the first ride, I'm sure you heard me complain on here two years ago about having to walk out of the woods two miles in 90 degree heat, took three weeks to get part and fix, the hub, then 20 minutes into THAT ride, again, broke, then five weeks to get whole new HUB under warranty and relace the wheel, finally summer is over, and made a decision rather than ride and break the hub again, I'll sell the set as a new set on Ebay, not a scratch on them. List is $650. Tried selling on Ebay for $500, couldn't sell. So the bike sat. I refused to ride it and use the crappy bontragers and have to take even MORE of a bath on the wheels. December '09 arrives. I put the wheels on Ebay for a steal price and they finally sell. I buy over the winter a set of Hadleys, best money I ever spent, and Sun MTX 33's laced to my door like $750 bucks. Well worth not having to ever deal with Bontrager quality EVER again. Let me say that again. EVER again. Thank you. Finally get the bike out last summer for it's first riding since it was bought with only 40 minutes riding on it. Have a blast. Now this winter bike sat again. Still has the same exact pads on the front. They are NOT worn. The full pad is almost there. One season of riding on them in the park. No big deal. Now, the front brake pulls all the way and I get no brake. WHY?

No leaking? No usage hardly, am I having another Trek/Gary Fisher possessed bike moment?

Anyone with an answer is welcome because it's $20 at my LBS to bleed them, I already did twice, and it hasn't fixed the problem so a new front brake would run me $55 plus ship. I'm probably better off buying new but if Hayes Brake is going to be that cheap quality, I'm going Avid this time. Anyone that might know why a non leaking brake would just start losing pull on the left side, till now it goes all the way to the handlebar with NO brake whatsoever, let me know what it may be. I rejuiced them twice yesterday and I've done it before on another bike so you can't tell me it's my error or my other Hayes Mag Nine would not be working and it grabs the moment you put pressure on the handle.

Why would a Hayes Mag Nine stop working with only one season on it and basically the new original pads on it? Why would it stop working? Bleeding it isn't working, and I'm using Hayes specific fluid for filling it.

 

[Quo Fan]

Sounds like the master cylinder failed.

 

[BIGHITR]

Sounds like the master cylinder failed.

Is that something that can be fixed? Or do I just have to buy another one. And why would a master cylinder go up on a brake that has hardly seen any real wear? That doesn't sound like Hayes quality at all.

 

[Quo Fan]

Anytime there is a production line, there will always be differences in quality from one unit to another. I can't tell why, dis-assembly will reveal the true cause of failure, but quite possibly the seals failed and the piston isn't pushing the fluid down the line. I believe you can buy a rebuild kit, check Universal Cycles, they usually have a bunch of small parts.

 

[mklie]

Take the pads out, keep pumping the lever until the pistons are out as far are they can go then bleed again. If afterwards you cannot push the pistons in far enough to fit over the disk with the pads in then you have nothing wrong. Also make sure you do not put undo pressure on the fluid as it will create air bubbles when the pressure changes.

 

[sanjuro]

Hayes is the problem.

I would seriously replace the brake.

The quality is bad. The last one I bled, I believe a HFX-Nine, had oil leaking thru the body.

 

[Djmp3]

Juicy is the way to go. Sorry to hear about the bike troubles.

 

[ultraNoob]

Hayes is the problem.

I would seriously replace the brake.

The quality is bad. The last one I bled, I believe a HFX-Nine, had oil leaking thru the body.

I had an old set of 9's that I used to DH. Sold it with the bike and from what I hear, it continues to perform. Got a new set of 9's on my HT and they feel pretty good. No problems whatsoever.

My first gen Hayes Strokers on the other hand are starting to tick me off. After 2 years, they still have plenty of power but the stiction in the master cylinder has gotten worse. Guess it's finally time to change the seals.

 

[JeffKill]

I put FULL bottle through the brake line, from brake caliper bike up right, towards handlebar, back into a catch bottle. See NO bubbles at all after squeezing 3/4 of DOT into it, pull the plug out, screw tiny screw back in, no brakes.

Try it again, second time, do the same thing, only this time, I pull the plug out that is feeding back into the catch bottle and let the fluid go all over the place coming out of the hole, and put screw in, WHILE squeezing the bottle to insure no bubbles get in the line, tight screw, try it again... nothing.

Please tell me that you did more than just push the fluid through the line? If so, that is NOT bleeding the brake.

If you did bleed them properly, the only thing I could think of being wrong if you didnt crash and smash the master cylinder into something, is an internal leak in the hose. It happened to me once, and I replaced the hose, bled the brake and had no problems. But that was on a very old brake as well.

Despite what a lot of people on here say, Hayes are not cheap quality brakes. If the brake is set up properly, it WILL work properly.

I've ridden hayes brakes since I started using disc brakes years ago, and Im 100% happy with them. I have the Stroker trails on my AM bike and the Aces on my DH bike. I tried one pair of Avids, and I quickly switched back to hayes. Just a matter of preference I guess, to each his own.

One more thing, if you're having trouble bleeding a Hayes brake, good luck with the Avids........

 

[BIGHITR]

Redman, I talked to Hayes about that, I don't see any damage or leaking in the line.

Sanjuro, I understand brand loyalty. Rider ability would make the difference, not the brand of product when it comes to what you ride. It won't make a difference if you are on Continental DH tires and me on Maxxis when I WHIP YO ASS down heel! Yo, you beta recognize! Nome thay'n? LOL

Jeff, I have no need to "bleed" air from the brake. I use clear tubing so I can see any bubbles in the fluid. Even the super fine ones. I have a huge bottle I turn upside down so no air gets in the line, then I squeeze the fluid to the end of the clear tubing I use. The moment it comes out I put it on the brake while squeezing. No air gets in the line. Then with the bike right side up, I turn the screw to feed the fluid in. Jeff, I literally squeeze a half a quart of DOT 4 through the line, and out the top handlegrip and down another clear tube back down to a catch bottle, and I continue to squeeze the fluid fast and watch it push any small fine bubbles out of the grip handle and yes, "down" the tube into a catch bottle. That's how fast I push the fluid through. I keep squeezing fluid, and when I see no fine bubbles of air I pull the hose off the handle grip and just let it drip out on the ground while I have the screw ready on a magnetic screwdriver, and I continue to squeeze the fluid till I put the screw in. NO air gets in this way. I've done it before and my brakes are fine on my other bike as well as the rear brake on the bike I'm working on.

I spoke to Shannon at Hayes, he's a really helpful guy. He sent me two new master cylinders. I put one in and it didn't work. So I'm going to send the whole assembly back because it's under warranty and I am getting the impression from a LBS close by, (not where I bought my bike) they think it might just be a defective handle.

Shannon said they have a 24 to 48 hour turn around so that sounds impeccable to me. I'm just going to send it back. It's under warranty.

 

[BIGHITR]

P.S. thanks for the input guys, I really appreciated it.

 

[jonKranked]

Jeff, I have no need to "bleed" air from the brake. I use clear tubing so I can see any bubbles in the fluid. Even the super fine ones. I have a huge bottle I turn upside down so no air gets in the line, then I squeeze the fluid to the end of the clear tubing I use. The moment it comes out I put it on the brake while squeezing. No air gets in the line. Then with the bike right side up, I turn the screw to feed the fluid in. Jeff, I literally squeeze a half a quart of DOT 4 through the line, and out the top handlegrip and down another clear tube back down to a catch bottle, and I continue to squeeze the fluid fast and watch it push any small fine bubbles out of the grip handle and yes, "down" the tube into a catch bottle. That's how fast I push the fluid through. I keep squeezing fluid, and when I see no fine bubbles of air I pull the hose off the handle grip and just let it drip out on the ground while I have the screw ready on a magnetic screwdriver, and I continue to squeeze the fluid till I put the screw in. NO air gets in this way. I've done it before and my brakes are fine on my other bike as well as the rear brake on the bike I'm working on.

you do realize that the brake lines aren't the only location in a hydraulic brake system that has brake fluid in it? Just because you can't see the air bubbles in your line doesn't mean there isn't air in the system.

 

[BIGHITR]

you do realize that the brake lines aren't the only location in a hydraulic brake system that has brake fluid in it? Just because you can't see the air bubbles in your line doesn't mean there isn't air in the system.

Yes I know. Obviously the cylinder is full as well. But I'm pushing it through so fast, I can see any small bubbles if any come out the handle where the cylinder is. I'm dumping at least eight ounces through easy John. I have done the same process on three other handles and they're all fine. It's got to be defective or a hose I'm thinking. But no evidence of hose problems.

 

[JeffKill]

I would still try manually bleeding the caliper, and then pumping the lever at the bar while pushing fluid through after that. This way you would be sure that you've taken all the air out of the system.

 

[jonKranked]

Yes I know. Obviously the cylinder is full as well. But I'm pushing it through so fast, I can see any small bubbles if any come out the handle where the cylinder is. I'm dumping at least eight ounces through easy John. I have done the same process on three other handles and they're all fine. It's got to be defective or a hose I'm thinking. But no evidence of hose problems.

you have to cycle the lever (which in turn actuates the master cylinder in the caliper) to fully bleed a brake...

 

[Cookie]

There's o-rings/seals in the caliper between halves, around the pistons and hose ends all of which can sneak a bubble or two if not minty. If it's slowly squeezing to the bar than it's air (check/replace all seals and hose then re-bleed. Try plumbers' thread tape on the hose fitting.) If it's properly bled and just goes wham to the bar it's the M/C, an easy cheap allen key and a snap ring fix. It's all true about a kinked hose letting fluid inbetween layers. Also if the ceramic piston itself is damaged air can sneak in there too. Don't overtighten eh guys!!!Cranking the bleed port in too far or the hose into the caliper can damage the body and let air in. I'm not sure how the speed of the fluid push is relevant.

 

[BIGHITR]

Okay finally getting back to this one. I put the brand new master cylinder in and it didn't fix the problem. End result was to send it back to Hayes and was REALLY impressed with how fast they turned it around and sent it back. Only cost me the shipping. Not sure what the problem was, I asked in writing in the box to let me know when they sent it back. Never did.

I am interested in learning how to bleed it properly. I was under the impression just pushing the fluid through fast would blow out all the bubbles. It was clear fluid coming out the line above so I assumed all were gone.

I do have one bike with the lever that grabs really hard and my rear tire comes up off the ground when I do it. I like that braking power. I only have to give a very light pull to slow down. My other bike, I have to pull it half way to get it to go and even pulling it as hard as ever, it just slows down.

I take it I need to bleed it to get it to grab hard with a light pull?

 

[BIGHITR]

Jon Kranked and JeffKill, anywhere online I can look up that process with pics? I'm very mechanically inclined so I am willing to try it myself.

 

[jonKranked]

How to Bleed a Hayes Nine/Sole Disc Brake Video â?? 5min.com

How to bleed Hayes-Disc Hydraulic Brake system Video â?? 5min.com

First vid is specific to the lever of the 9's. Second vid shows the actual bleed process. (didn't see it in the vid, no audio @ work).

video says not to grab the lever. just don't grab the lever with nothing between the pistons (they will pop out, then you'll have to rebuild them). put a stop block in there to keep them in place. You need to squeeze the lever during the bleed process because that will move the fluid in the system while the ends are open, which can free up any bubbles that may be stuck in the recesses of the caliper. one thing that I found worked well is squeeze the lever all the way in, then let it spring out and start pushing fluid through at the same time. The sudden motion can get more bubbles out.


Also, make sure you are using fresh brake fluid. Hayes brakes use DOT fluid, can over time will absorb moisture - resulting in poor performance.