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Headsets, Ovalization, what to do.

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
Riding last Saturday, my bike developed a persistent rattling/creaking. I suspected my CK bearing cap and swapped it to no avail.

Pull the front end apart and the lower cup all but falls out of the frame; its only snug enough fit to keep it in place, but will pull out by hand with little to no effort.

I am considering buying a used CK Steelset and just using the lower cup (a friend has one 'laying around'), but wanted to see what other options the Monkeys can suggest.

I cleaned the cup and headtube and pushed the cup back in with a nice coat of Blue loctite, then put the front together slightly overtight for the past 12 hours. I have been banging on it and twisting it and it is solid, however a few runs down ripper/slayer/bmw/stalker at Diablo (I love those rocks!) and a 170mm 66 can likely issue alot more abuse than I can test.

I am probably going to skip DH this week and find some gnartastic AM, since I need to up the CV anyway, so just a refocus..


YES! I know CK headsets are the bane of many a long travel bike, this will be my last one - I am switching to CC 110 for next build, but it wont help in this case.


QUick Q's

1 - What is insertion depth of a CK NoThreadset 1-1/8"
2 - Same for FSA Pig DH Pro
3 - What about Diabolous (and is it still made? cant find on RF site, so assume no more)
4 - Any opinions on a retainer compound or other? Do you think the blue will hold up?


waaah - 260 on a 4 yo frame - dont wanna shell out $$ (that is otherwise A-OK, seen a lot fewer days than some get in 1 season)
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
Wow! Got a phone call from a local mech giving me his scoop

1 - Ditch the King
2 - Clean headtube meticulously
3 - Pig DH pro with red loctite on the lower cup
4 - Press together, wait 24hrs

sounds propa!
 

Patan-DH

Monkey
Jun 9, 2007
458
0
Patagonia
Hi, i've have had the same issue with my faith when using a 170mm 66.
I replaced the headset with a Pig DH pro "deep cup" and its been running smooth since 2007.
Other option is to put a layer of red bull alloy can between the head tube and headset
cheers
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
Thread sealant is not what you want to use on this type of application. Find some clyindrical assembly retaining compound. THe loctite products are usually transparent green in color, and in the 600s for product number. 609, 638, 635 etc. Check the data sheets for strength, gap fill, temp, etc... 609 is what I use for this sort of thing.

MUCH better than thread sealant!!!
 

Old_Sckool

Monkey
Jun 5, 2007
187
0
Simply JB weld the lower cup in. You won't ever be able to remove it. Just make sure the headset you use has replaceable/serviceable bearings.
A steel headset cup is your best bet, cause you don't ever want to have to replace the cup.
A PIG works great. I've fixed 2 ovalized headtubes this way and both are still be ridden to this day. One of them was repaired over 5 years ago.
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
I swapped the King in my VP for the Pig DH Pro in my Chameleon (!)

The both pressed in snugly, and each got a nice dose of red loc-tite for good measure!

I will keep the JB weld in mind in the event of future failures. The headtube is not really ovalized, but is worn enough across the first 5mm that the cup would make slight contact and spin, but not wobble; the steel, larger diam (micron +.2) and deeper (12mm vs 9) Pig lower should do the trick!

The red loctite lists press fit applications, so extra a-ok (just hope I never want to take these lower cups out!
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Your plan of attack is proper. Any deep cup headset will do. FSA makes a really nice one of out 7075.
Red Loctite is the wrong tool for the job. The green stuff is designed to fill gaps and hold bearings in. You can also get the Permatex brand. It should be labeled as "bearing retainer", not "thread locker". The standard purple, blue and red thread lockers fail if you have any substantial gap at all. Green will fill .010" per side IIRC. That's a lot.
And yes, say good buy to the shiny Kings.

edit, if you ever have to remove them, heat the headtube to about 150-200deg. This is hot enough to kill the bond but not so hot that any damage will occur to your frame.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
King Steelset with bearing retaining compound (if your headtube is long enough to accept it). Don't know why you'd try to put an open bearing Pig headset into a frame permanently.

I know quite a few people who just put in a Steelset when the frame is new, pay the weight and cost penalty and never have to worry about it again.
 

daisycutter

Turbo Monkey
Apr 8, 2006
1,651
124
New York City
Pig DH Pro. The ultimate of DH headsets. Forged chromoly lower cup and 6061/T6 upper cup with industrial cartridge sealed bearings. Gyro compatible, laser etched top cap, forged chromoly crown race, and TH brand 36 degree micro angular contact upper bearings.
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
King Steelset with bearing retaining compound (if your headtube is long enough to accept it). Don't know why you'd try to put an open bearing Pig headset into a frame permanently.

I know quite a few people who just put in a Steelset when the frame is new, pay the weight and cost penalty and never have to worry about it again.
My 8 yo Pig that's still smoother than my CK's ever were? It's in there now!

Woot.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Ive been using FSA Pig headsets<not pig pro, regular 25 dollar Loose ball> now for nine years..... WOnt use anything else on my bikes.... Price it right, they are tough as hell, and easy to service, and look clean installed. I couldnt imagine ever running something different.