Health Care Reform is Dead

Discussion in 'Politics & World News' started by Pesqueeb, Aug 16, 2009.

  1. Nick

    Nick My name is Nick

    Rep/Likes:
    270 / 2,152
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    12,762
    Location:
    behind you, don't wait up.
    RM Death Panel; Rocky Mountain Chapter. :monkey:
     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
    Is that 10% overall? Or 10% on top of what we currently pay? I currently pay 5.4% of my salary towards healthcare with my employer kicking in some other amount, I'd have to think I'd be darn close to the 10% threshold if that's the target.

    But yes, I fully understand that the majority of healthcare resources are used to cover the last few months of life for the doomed. Whether we want to call it a death panel or reality, it's a real contributor that needs to be addressed.
     
  3. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
    I propose we preemptively strike bike thieves.
     
  4. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

    Rep/Likes:
    223 / 1,586
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    45,008
    Location:
    In a van.... down by the river
    Hell - institute national "right-to-death" legislation (physician-assisted exit strategies) and I'd bet you'd find a lot of hopeless cases would select to voluntarily exit early and comfortably. I know I would if I faced certain, excruciating death in the short-term.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    139 / 969
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,872
    Location:
    AK
    Not me, but I’m an asshole.
     
  6. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

    Rep/Likes:
    223 / 1,586
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    45,008
    Location:
    In a van.... down by the river
    You'd figure you deserved it? :D
     
  7. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    139 / 969
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,872
    Location:
    AK
    Naw, I just want to take it for all its worth.
     
  8. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
    You haven’t lived until you’ve died.
     
  9. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    77 / 391
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,471
    Location:
    sw ontario canada
    One answer is your military.
    The money could easily be found to supplement personal and payroll contributions.
    First thing is to audit the mess, the cash should be accountable. Why do the bow and arrow guys get a pass?
    That alone will free up a big chest of treasure.
    Maybe close down a few foreign military bases - do you have to be in almost every country on earth?
    Maybe streamline a few things, you know like cutting out redundant processes due to inter branch rivalry.
    Maybe ease back on building things you have a whole whack of, ie MBT's, you keep refurbing what you have, and building new ones even though the army itself says ...um hey, guys - like we got enough, please stop sending us more.
    Maybe ease up on building Aircraft carriers, they are getting harder and harder to defend and the ways to take them out keep getting cheaper and easier to deploy. There are already known missiles that are faster than the known defenses.
    Maybe take a page out of <gasp> the Russian playbook - not everything has to be the ultimate in high-tech and cost a bazillion dollars each, I'm not saying go all caveman, but come on when you have to walk a runway for FOD, and the Russians don't even bother to cut the weeds growing out of theirs.....maybe there is an in-between - you want to be operational if the runway gets littered with a bit of gravel - no?
    Maybe you don't have to spend as much as the next 7 or 8 countries combined.
    Maybe I should stop whilst I'm ahead.....

    um....I'll get me coat.....
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
    For High Deductible? :fie:

    There was a whole bunch wrong with that proposal, including the fact that it didn't mandate every state resident join, if they had employer provided health care they were exempt, which was part of the reason for it's insolvency.

    A right, not a privilege. Getting a drivers license, and driving a car, is a privilege.
     
  11. SkaredShtles

    SkaredShtles I love NEWCASTLE and will ONLY drink NEWCASTLE!!!!

    Rep/Likes:
    223 / 1,586
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Messages:
    45,008
    Location:
    In a van.... down by the river
    I won't argue about the semantics, just will agree that as a 1st world nation we owe it to ourselves to do this.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    139 / 969
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,872
    Location:
    AK
    In the army we always had to stay in tents. When the Air Force travels around in a beech jet, king air, c-130, etc., they always stay in a hotel, wtf? Why can't they just pitch a tent in the grass alongside the runway?

    Don't even get me started on the reserves and guard, huge waste of money and guys just a ubusing the hell out of the system.
     
  13. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
    IIRC the proposal was 10% of income, but you had to factor in the fact that you would no longer be buying health insurance if you got into the state system. A fairly large employer tax was also written in though I do not recall it's specifics. The part of the proposal I had big problems with was the fact that had the law passed, if your employer continued to provide health care, you would have had to pay both. The law did not mandate, and actually made specific exemptions to enrolling in the system. It was possible to get the worst of both worlds under the bill as it was written.
     
  14. Toshi

    Toshi Harbinger of Doom

    Rep/Likes:
    175 / 1,177
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Messages:
    23,708
    10% from you if self-employed. 10% split between you and employer if employed, 6/4% or something like that.

    Consider my situation: from $19/month subsidized premiums to 6% overall... yeah, nope.
     
  15. stevew

    stevew unique white person

    Rep/Likes:
    239 / 2,196
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    30,817
    i'm sorry.....but.....fuck that.

    if i like my employers heath care...i'll keep it.
     
  16. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
    What % of your income do your annual healthcare expenditures comprise?

    Judging by some of the prior responses in this thread, it sounds like most of us are already approaching that 6%/4% threshold. If not for that requirement to pay for both employer and single payer provided nuance, I know I’d come out way ahead with single payer.
     
  17. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
    My experience with my employer health care is why I'm strongly in favor of burning it to the fucking ground.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Toshi

    Toshi Harbinger of Doom

    Rep/Likes:
    175 / 1,177
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Messages:
    23,708
    From me: < 1%. From employer including subsidy: < 1%.
     
  19. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
    :stupid:

    Anecdotally, on the paycheck I receive tomorrow, I'm contributing 13ish percent towards "medical". This does not include dental and vision I pay as well.
     
  20. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
    Sounds like you have a generous employer. With our most lax HDHP I would pay 2% a year just for the plan.
     
  21. Toshi

    Toshi Harbinger of Doom

    Rep/Likes:
    175 / 1,177
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2001
    Messages:
    23,708
    http://ridemonkey.bikemag.com/threads/health-care-reform-is-dead.222154/page-15#post-4242608

    $19/month from me thanks to the weird post-WWII system of subsidized premiums as a perk that we have. I'm also including the portion of the HSA that we actually use, too--I max that out for the tax benefit but use only a portion of it.
     
  22. stevew

    stevew unique white person

    Rep/Likes:
    239 / 2,196
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    30,817
    i can understand that.

    i have always hated dealing with health insurance.
     
  23. Jm_

    Jm_ Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    139 / 969
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,872
    Location:
    AK
    Lol, when the person at the counter asks me "do you have plan code"? After I give them my insurer and plan number. I say, "what is that supposed to mean?". Seriously, the whole system is so fucked up with so many middlemen with their hand in the cookie jar, hospitals contracting out to subcontractors that send you the bill, wtf? Why are you sending me the bill for this? You can't get with the insurance and figure this out?


    Yes, burn it to the ground, and punch the insurance agencies in the face a few times for good measure?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    28,592
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    When I worked for Plexis (healthcare claims processing software) it was really an interesting lesson in just how twisted our system is.

    With my old insurance, going to the chiropractor gave me two options:
    A: Pay $43 cash for treatment = doctor get all of it, everybody wins
    B: Pay $50 deductible = insurance gets billed $135, doctor gets $35 for the visit when all said and done
     
  25. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
  26. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,348
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    28,592
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Moving on, nothing more to see here

    Big ass tax cut means fat pockets. Time to celebrate the big win.
     
  27. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
  28. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
    I can't fucking believe no one has ever thought of that before.
     
  29. Adventurous

    Adventurous Starshine Bro

    Rep/Likes:
    168 / 1,468
    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Messages:
    3,673
    Location:
    Crawlorado
    Careful there comrade or ICE will banish you to one of those Euro-peein wastelands where it takes a year to see a doctor and death panels are busy knocking off grandma.
     
  30. stevew

    stevew unique white person

    Rep/Likes:
    239 / 2,196
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    30,817
    just try real hard to stay out of a hospital.....
     
  31. jonKranked

    jonKranked Press Button, Receive Stupid

    Rep/Likes:
    347 / 3,032
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    51,044
    Location:
    media blackout
    "not for profit" translates to "commie care" in Freedumb-speak
     
  32. stevew

    stevew unique white person

    Rep/Likes:
    239 / 2,196
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    30,817
    steer clear of female jetta drivers...
     
  33. stevew

    stevew unique white person

    Rep/Likes:
    239 / 2,196
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2001
    Messages:
    30,817
    russia care?
     
  34. mykel

    mykel Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    77 / 391
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2013
    Messages:
    1,471
    Location:
    sw ontario canada

     
  35. Pesqueeb

    Pesqueeb bicycle in airplane hangar

    Rep/Likes:
    402 / 2,721
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2007
    Messages:
    24,890
    Location:
    Riding the baggage carousel.
  36. pnj

    pnj Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 32
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2002
    Messages:
    4,684
    Location:
    seattle
    yo. just got home from back surgery. L5/S1. If you don't have insurance they make you pay cash.

    CASH.

    I'll probably sell some of the pain meds to recoup my loss....
     
    • Like Like x 1