And now for a right wing witch hunt against those researchers no doubt.
Health Care Reform is Dead
- Thread starter Pesqueeb
- Start date
I bet they just ignore it and parrot that it’d bankrupt us.
Probably, they find actual factual quantified data far too easy to disparage belittle and ignore.
How do you in the medical field feel about what will certainly result in lower pay and government overlords?
Are we all due to the VA experience?
I lived in NL for 5 years and was in their health system. Not denying it works, or opposed to it, but the medical field isn’t the lucrative career it is in US.
With calls for medication cost cuts, Harris calling for end of private insurers etc the resistance will be fiercest from the medical community itself.
Medicare already pays over 40% of claims:
https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/americas-payor-mix-by-region.html
So upping that shouldn’t change things much as we are structured around that as a baseline.
Medicaid pays much less. That would be rough. Thus lobbying to keep that from being the standard.
So you don't see any issues from your side?
People around here tend to think all the costs are inflated and that cost cutting will occur as it's immorally high currently.
It's unacceptable to have Drs buying 4 cars per year when granny needs to budget for her thyroid meds.
MA recently tried to meddle in nurse/patient ratios and the medical community was not amused. It didn't pass.
I had surgery recently, I'm getting bills from 3 different people for the shit that went on in one place at one time. Why the fuck can't they get their act together and just have one bill? Why do we need to be billed separately for the anesthesiologist, the "facility", the surgeon, their assistant, for whatever little piecemeal thing they decide? Do you have any idea how hard it is to track this shit when you are getting bills left and right and trying to figure out if they are attempting to double-dip or charge you for services that were not rendered? Don't even get me started on trying to find out who is "in network" and the different rates for different shit (like the "facility", the surgeon, the anesthesia, etc.) then worrying that you have considered everything and not make a mistake. Yes, if we streamline healthcare, we'll put a lot of people out of jobs, shit that just costs money and doesn't add any quality to our health care, like the insurance company, all these separate bills, etc. These people can go work at mar-a-lago or help build the wall.
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You think the government will streamline this bureaucracy?
I’ve been self insured for 20+ years and don’t really have a dog in this fight. My costs aren’t likely to get lower, quality of care might though and I’ve never met an industry where the private sector can’t outperform govt.
Again, I’m not arguing one way or the other. Just asking questions.
By self-insured do you mean you're forgoing health insurance altogether and just keeping a "deep pocket" in case something really bad happens?
All systems built by homo sapiens petrify, whether government, private sector, religion... Used to be that it got cured in the private sector by failure, but it has now turned int a really pathological money extraction scheme that keeps institutions that should be long gone alive.
I'm really interested in how one might revitalize or replace non-functional, e.g. the VA, institutions, getting rid of deadwood and bureaucracy, with minimal collateral damage.
No, I've borne 100% of the insurance cost burden due to being self employed.
$20k/yr for family of four for decent coverage.
When the MA version of ACA was implemented my costs rose significantly. (edit: and plan coverage/quality suffered)
Seeing how my brother was bankrupted by his cancer, I know my pockets aren't deep enough to cover health costs.
A shit load.Sounds like you have at least a *little* dog in this fight.
Damn, that's alotta money.
Curious how single payer numbers will shake out.
Our healthcare costs are unnecessary burden on US industry and makes competing against Canada etc difficult, and we need to decouple employment and health insurance for that reason alone.
I think people are going to be surprised at the tax increases needed to cover govt taking over and everyone (read: those with $ to toss into the pot) but suckers like me will end up paying significantly more than they are currently.
Yeah - agreed.
Yeah - I think it's also going to require a *fundamental* shift in how we view our priorities when it comes to this pie chart. I fear that we may NEVER have the political will to do that, though.
Source of data?
Just for reference, even if my wife and I are employed, we used to pay around $9k for insurance just for the two of us here in MA, and those were "good" employer group plans. Now we pay less but having ~$16k max out of pocket, half of that being deductible (IIRC).Sounds like you have at least a *little* dog in this fight.
Damn, that's alotta money.
This is the way that it appears *EVERY* employer is going. And there are a LOT of people in for a major shock when they actually start to *USE* this type of insurance. It works pretty well if you have no need for anything medical... but as soon as you do: BAM! Complete chaos. Don't ask me how I know.
It has to be this way to complete in a global economy. Back when US business mainly competed with itself they could more easily subsidize health care because everyone did it but it’s always been an unrealistic expectation/burden.This is the way that it appears *EVERY* employer is going. And there are a LOT of people in for a major shock when they actually start to *USE* this type of insurance. It works pretty well if you have no need for anything medical... but as soon as you do: BAM! Complete chaos. Don't ask me how I know.
Honestly just the precursor to ‘the rich can afford it’ mentality of today’s progressives. Which is why I asked toshi about the industry perspective. The true cost of health care is going to be paid by somebody and people’s generosity about healthcare for all will evaporate when the tab is placed in front of them. Everyone will look to supply side cost cutting as the answer to spare average Joe from reality, because ‘nobody deserves that much money and corporations aren’t people.
Yup - and I suspect as more and more people get beat to shit out-of-pocket they'll start to see universal coverage as a pretty decent idea.
Yup - the entire system will need to be re-worked, which, as I said earlier, I suspect we won't have the political will to do for a bit longer...
What would you cut from that pie chart?
Defense isn't a bet I'd make.
Social Security etc is going to be more important if anything given savings rates and the fact that AI is going to gut the white collar job market in our lifetime.
Healthcare costs, again, up if govt goes balls deep.
Gonna be interesting.
Yeah - it's a poor bet, for sure... but I think it's the part we *really* need to address.
Truth.
No argument. And no real good answers. We're gonna have to change the rules of the game, I think, which is going to be extremely difficult and going to end up being unfair for a LOT of people.
It gets even better when you change jobs, let's say in late summer / fall, and your deductible / out of pocket counter resets to zero.This is the way that it appears *EVERY* employer is going. And there are a LOT of people in for a major shock when they actually start to *USE* this type of insurance. It works pretty well if you have no need for anything medical... but as soon as you do: BAM! Complete chaos. Don't ask me how I know.
FUCK THAT PROGRAM! Employment based insurance is ... suboptimal.
Sure but NPs are no guarantee of efficiency, they just need to zero the balance sheet.
Biggest threat with breaking up existing med establishment, amplified if compensation suffers for those who choose to remain, is loss of skilled workers. A mass exodus of medical professionals (admin/exec side) will be catastrophic.
Look at the damage Cheeto is wreaking on the government simply thru loss of talent. DC is going to take years to recover just from that, let alone his actual policies. We can’t simply shoot existing industry in head and expect a smooth or even functioning transition.
This will make immigration reform look like child’s play.
Not sure how about your neck of the woods, but here, there has been a massive consolidation of hospitals going on. Even our small town's family friendly hospital has been recently absorbed by Lahey's. There aren't any good choices around anymore.
Any such change would have to be phased in over, say, twenty years so as to allow folks to adjust, avoiding transient effects.
We did a lot of work for several of the hospitals that Lahey absorbed. They fired all my contacts during the transition and we lost the biz. They put a lot of muscle behind killing Prop 1 in November.Not sure how about your neck of the woods, but here, there has been a massive consolidation of hospitals going on. Even our small town's family friendly hospital has been recently absorbed by Lahey's. There aren't any good choices around anymore.
Do you mean to imply that Membership at Mar-a-lago might not make you qualified to run the VA?
Think that's coincidence?
I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.
Why the automatic assumption that anything can only be paid with cuts? I mean, I'm all for cutting our horrifically bloated military, but the reality is is that cutting the military to zero doesn't cover teh cost of single payer/universal health care.
(*edit: Not sure what's going on with the picture, but it can be viewed here.)
If we assume that #MAGA means Ward Cleaver -> St. Reagan, lets return to those tax rates and see how much this country can afford then. Hell, you might even be able to better fund a school or two, you know, like all those "socialist" countries.
This is baloney, because:
Turns out most of Europe, Australia, NZ, etc. are also functioning countries that have not suffered "mass exodus'" of healthcare professionals. While there are arguably shortages of health care "professionals" in actual, first world countries, Freedumb® doesn't make it any better.
I take issue with Kamala Harris on a number of her positions, but Healthcare (so called) is not one of them. I know it gives right wingers the vapors to even consider it, but what she is proposing isn't a radical solution, it's the only solution. The entire for-profit healthcare "industry", providers, insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. need to be razed, tilled under, and salted. Start completely fucking over. The same goes for for-profit prisons, and for-profit education. They are all just different sides of the same blood soaked, minted in suffering, morally bankrupt coin that modern america loves to horde, and it's reprehensible.
So you have $500,000 for full chemo therapy? Or maybe a cool million?
Healthcare for procedures these days cost more than a person can every pay back in their lifetime and sometimes multiple lifetimes. That is wrong on so many levels.
And yes, I believe there are certain things that the government needs to control. When they do not, they get out of control. Tollways, education, security, food production, environmental protection, etc. This isn't about streamlining anything, it's about providing basic fucking healthcare. If we can cut out all sorts of unnecessary redundancy and bullshit, all the better. I'm a government regulator and we are continually trying to keep businesses in line. When left to their own devices, they do some pretty crazy (bad) things. I can't divulge any of the details, but I can tell you that there are a lot of people in the government making sure your life is safe and secure. Nothing significant is happening because these people are working hard to ensure this.
Lets not forget, I'm paying for fat people, people that drink, babies, old people and other shit through my healthcare. And we can't control our lives to the extent that we think we can, so something bad could happen to me, I could fall into a rut and gain 100lbs because I can't exercise or I could get a disease or condition. The idea that "well, I don't want to pay for xxxx" is bullshit. We already pay for it, if we didn't, we wouldn't have health insurance in the first place, we'd just pay directly for our procedures and costs.
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Yeah, because who wants nonsense protections like that.
No shit, more money than most people would ever be able to pay pack. That’s what’s crazy, and all the “I don’t want to pay for other people’s shit”-people all of a sudden are ok with just paying a deductible when the shit hits the fan for them....
