Amen, those my exact reasons as well. I always found it funny 45NRTH made all those crazy winter shoes clipless...
Heated Socks?
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The iced up cleats only really happens around freezing in warm sticky snow IME, and it has something to do with your cleat staying a little warmer than the air and the snow and ice adhering to it. When it's cold, even in a lot of new snow, the snow is just like sand, it falls out and away, never packs or sticks. It's frustrating as hell when you do get that warm sticky stuff. Time pedals work a lot better there, but it can still be far from optimal. It's funny walking around in those conditions with pavement underneath, quickly your cleats turn into little ice-balls and pack a half an inch to an inch of snow around them just walking around, so you are all of a sudden with this stupid snow-ball thing on the shoes. But again, that's only once or twice in the Fall for us.
But anyway, the point of clipless is just like the point of them in tech DH, to stay on the bike and make it part of you, just like anywhere else. It's not right or wrong, some people ride the nastiest DH in clipless, some people do it in flats. Some people do XC in flats, some do it in clipless. It's whatever you are used to. It is easier to make flats warmer, no question, so you do have to go to greater extents to make clipless work in the winter.
The number one problem is that cleat heat-sink. A lot of earlier "winter" shoes were pathetic and just crap, like a summer shoe with simply a full leather covering and a leather or neoprene cuff at the top. Same insole, same sole, etc. Those would suck the life right out of you. Even later generations were pretty much a joke. Trying to get the point across to the idiots to insulate the goddamn insole and not have it just 3mm above the cleat. We went to some lengths to do it ourselves, wool insoles, sheep-wool/skin, neoprene, etc., but you gotta get the boots big enough to support that, kind of a guessing game. The newer stuff with the removable liners like mountaineering boots are finally starting to address this IMO and it's good we got there. This has spread around to other brands, Lake, Bontrager, etc.
I have a lot more tricks to make this work and it works well now for me, but this is frustrating for some people for sure. Some of it is not really related to clipless, but just the fact that you don't flex your foot all that much during riding, unlike running which tends to "pump" blood more effectively, they are constantly in the relative wind, your legging choices may be sucking out heat on the way down to the feet, etc. I try to minimize the heat-sink effect with plastic-body Time pedals, but IMO it's still that cleat that's the number 1 offender.
If riding from home, throw boots on boot-dryer for half an hour before going (or oven at low), if driving to trailhead, blast the heat to the foot area and set your boots in the px seat footwell.
Anti-perspirant to help cut down on sweating.
Liner sock like silk, then vapor barrier like RAB, then wool sock. Breadbags and shopping bags do NOT work like VBs are supposed to work IME.
Toe heaters, pop them 15 minutes before you plan to use them, put them on. +1 for sewing a little pocket on top of your socks for them. Always on top of your toes, that works best, but in extreme conditions, maybe both the bottom (inside the boot) and on top of your toes.
Use gaiters, even when it's not snowy, they block a lot of wind and help keep that lower-leg blood warmer.
Shoe covers, even on boots.
You walk a fine line sometimes between being too sweaty and being warm enough. The usual issue is people over-do their core and then turn into a sweaty mess. You can mitigate this by bringing an extra core-layer, like a down puffy or waterproof packable if it's a little warmer. Being able to make some adjustments is very helpful. IME, a hot core doesn't make the extremities warm...it just makes the core sweaty. If I can bring some of that heat out a little further from the core, without sweating, then that's where it's at. Among my weapons are jacketless down sleeves (as opposed to a sleeveless jacket). These will boost the heat going to my hands/fingers without turning me into a pool of sweat. You can wear a little heavier pants if you go a little lighter on top, so you try to balance it all out with insulation and being able to breathe enough. Dampness almost always makes the extremities cold, except in the case of a vapor barrier. Sometimes extreme exercise can bring them back, but that's only sometimes IME and depends largely on the conditions.
I have a lot more tricks to make this work and it works well now for me, but this is frustrating for some people for sure. Some of it is not really related to clipless, but just the fact that you don't flex your foot all that much during riding, unlike running which tends to "pump" blood more effectively, they are constantly in the relative wind, your legging choices may be sucking out heat on the way down to the feet, etc. I try to minimize the heat-sink effect with plastic-body Time pedals, but IMO it's still that cleat that's the number 1 offender.
If riding from home, throw boots on boot-dryer for half an hour before going (or oven at low), if driving to trailhead, blast the heat to the foot area and set your boots in the px seat footwell.
Anti-perspirant to help cut down on sweating.
Liner sock like silk, then vapor barrier like RAB, then wool sock. Breadbags and shopping bags do NOT work like VBs are supposed to work IME.
Toe heaters, pop them 15 minutes before you plan to use them, put them on. +1 for sewing a little pocket on top of your socks for them. Always on top of your toes, that works best, but in extreme conditions, maybe both the bottom (inside the boot) and on top of your toes.
Use gaiters, even when it's not snowy, they block a lot of wind and help keep that lower-leg blood warmer.
Shoe covers, even on boots.
You walk a fine line sometimes between being too sweaty and being warm enough. The usual issue is people over-do their core and then turn into a sweaty mess. You can mitigate this by bringing an extra core-layer, like a down puffy or waterproof packable if it's a little warmer. Being able to make some adjustments is very helpful. IME, a hot core doesn't make the extremities warm...it just makes the core sweaty. If I can bring some of that heat out a little further from the core, without sweating, then that's where it's at. Among my weapons are jacketless down sleeves (as opposed to a sleeveless jacket). These will boost the heat going to my hands/fingers without turning me into a pool of sweat. You can wear a little heavier pants if you go a little lighter on top, so you try to balance it all out with insulation and being able to breathe enough. Dampness almost always makes the extremities cold, except in the case of a vapor barrier. Sometimes extreme exercise can bring them back, but that's only sometimes IME and depends largely on the conditions.
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I ride clipless most of the year. I also haven't found a good flat "shoe" that works with a flat pedal in the winter. Those Columbias I posted up last year are ok, but when you're used to riding clipped in, adapting to flats is a pain, and in some cases can even be a liability.
Last winter I hit a super fun DH section that had been accessed by a snowmobile, and then had frozen pretty solid. There were all sorts of natural doubles to pump and pop. It was a blast. I was riding my flats and was having a ton of fun until one corner where I forgot I don't have a dropper and I wasn't clipped in. I landed all crooked and bounced off line into the deep snow that was covered in a 1.5" ice crust. I cut myself pretty bad on my shin and arm. I've been riding my dirt jumper with flats a lot more this year, but I still think that muscle memory will betray me at some point.
This winter I'm riding with droppers and asking myself "WTF was I thinkin?" for the previous winters...
Ah, yes, trailside wallowing.
I just picked up an AXS dropper for mine, no more gunked up cables. Plan to use it on both my bikes (swap back and forth w/ 2 controllers).
I run flats year round and now run a goretex over sock and a merino sock against my skin stuffed into my regular 510 Trailcross and am really pleased with that setup. Winter here tends toward the wet and milder end of the spectrum and wet feet are a hateful joy-sapping vampire for me so I find this is a great combo. The chi-chi dentist goretex over socks were like $80 and look incredibly stupid unless hidden under long pants but I'd spend it again in a heartbeat.
Going to try these out and go up a size from other shimano shoes that i use. if this fails it flats with boots lol
I kinda like the look of these too:
www.fizik.com
I'd like to be able to have a closer look at them in person. One thing I was reminded of last weekend is that I can't get the cleat as far back as I'd like on my current shoe, the Specialized Defroster. Drilling it out a little farther back isn't an option because the liner is sewn over the cleat pocket. That said, I've been running them for at least 5 years with no real problems... The cleat pocket on these ones look like they go back far enough.
Terra Artica X2
TERRA ARTICA X2 is an all- mountain shoe with a waterproof, breathable and insulated construction, designed to riders push further into winter conditions. ArticaThanks to its eVent waterproof/brea ...
www.fizik.com
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I have goretex socks that I bought, like 15 years ago. I'm beginning to wonder if I shouldn't go flats next year. Maybe I'll try it when my current shoes die.
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I agree. But clipped in is great too. It's nice to have a choice between two great options!
Been in some Shimano MW81 sz 42 for a couple winters now. OK, but a touch too snug. If i could find a 43 NOS, I'd buy them straight away.
Just ordered a pair of 45 NRTH Ragnaroks in a 43. Reviews all mention a fat/wide toe box - should work well for me.
Lots of ride in sub 30F temps, 1.5-2 hours. the MW81's have worked decently with a mid-weight Smartwool sock for about 1.5 hours even into single digit F temps.
I would never go back to regular shoes/covers/heat packs/etc. Real winter shoes/boots are worth the expense, IMO.
and wtf is up with any cycling shoe company putting out a winter boot/shoe without the ability to run toe spikes or having some big ass lugs? fuck that.
Just ordered a pair of 45 NRTH Ragnaroks in a 43. Reviews all mention a fat/wide toe box - should work well for me.
Lots of ride in sub 30F temps, 1.5-2 hours. the MW81's have worked decently with a mid-weight Smartwool sock for about 1.5 hours even into single digit F temps.
I would never go back to regular shoes/covers/heat packs/etc. Real winter shoes/boots are worth the expense, IMO.
and wtf is up with any cycling shoe company putting out a winter boot/shoe without the ability to run toe spikes or having some big ass lugs? fuck that.