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Heating Oil is gonna be expensive this winter with oil at $52.33/barrel

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Question: When gasoline spiked above $2 last year, oil was around $30 a barrel. We're nearly DOUBLE that now, and gasoline is still hovering at or around $2/gal.

Now assuming the laws of supply and demand can't be circumvented, one of these scenarios must be true:

1) Oil companies have been ripping off the public by grossly overcharging us vis-a-vis oil prices and the pump, or

2) Gasoline will be at $3 in sudden fashion.... or....

3) Demand is slowing.


We know #3 is false. So, either we will see a spike in gaosline prices very shortly, or the #1 scenario has to be true. I'm guessing the #2 scenario is the true scenario. I'm think the oil companies are doing their best to keep prices in check with the election coming up.

Thoughts??


Winter Concerns Push to Record High
Reuters | October 7, 2004 | Tanya Pang

SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Oil prices broke into record territory above $52 Thursday on heightened concerns that supplies of heating fuels will prove inadequate during the northern hemisphere winter.

U.S. light crude futures set an all-time high at $52.38 a barrel, marking a 60 percent surge in prices so far this year on the strongest demand growth in a generation and a thinning cushion of spare capacity to cope with supply outages.

London's Brent crude also struck a record peak, at $48.15 a barrel.

"We're in uncharted territory. There aren't many reasons to sell and there's lots of reasons to buy oil," said David Thurtell at Commonwealth Bank of Australia in Sydney.

Most Asian stock markets fell as sky-high oil reignited worries that high energy costs would dent household incomes, raise companies' expenses and hurt global economic growth.

The yen (JPY=: Quote, Profile, Research) slid against the dollar due to Japan's heavy reliance on oil imports.

A senior International Monetary Fund official warned on Thursday that tight oil supplies could leave the global economy worryingly vulnerable for years to come.

David Robinson, deputy director of the IMF's research department, said the continuing rise in oil prices meant the fund's forecast of 4.3 percent global growth in 2005, published on Sept. 29, was already out of date and would probably be scaled back to around 4 percent if recalculated now.

"I do worry about the medium-term outlook, about the sustained vulnerability to oil prices looking forward," he said. U.S. government data Wednesday showed heating oil stocks fell 1.2 million barrels to 51.2 million barrels in the week to Oct. 1, leaving commercial tanks 6 percent lower than a year ago.

Other major oil consumers in Europe and Asia also hold thin heating oil supplies. Inventories of heating fuels should normally rise at this time of year to cater for a surge in consumption in winter months.

"We don't have enough inventories before winter when oil demand typically peaks," said Tony Nunan at Mitsubishi Corp. in Tokyo.

Worries about a thin supply cushion have intensified after mid-September's Hurricane Ivan, which drove U.S. crude production to the lowest level since 1950 and disrupted operations at refineries along the Gulf Coast.

About 478,000 barrels per day of crude output in the Gulf of Mexico, 28 percent of total gulf production, remains shut due to storm damage and industry executives estimate it could take 45-90 days to restore supplies from offshore platforms.

The hurricane also disrupted operations at Gulf Coast refineries, where plants were still working at only 89 percent of capacity last week, cutting into heating fuel supplies.

Nigeria also remains a concern.

Nigerian oil union NUPENG is threatening to disrupt production Sunday ahead of a general strike Monday, unless the government starts talks on retail fuel prices.

Nigeria's oil unions have called strikes four times this year over rising fuel prices in the world's seventh largest exporter. So far none have affected output
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Drill Alaska!

Why else would Seward have made such a folley? Drill it! Drill it now!
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
I'm glad I moved to SoCal - last winter it cost me around $400/month in Jan. / Feb. (damn drafty New England homes..)
 

zod

Turbo Monkey
Jul 17, 2003
1,376
0
G-County, NC
My propane costs has gone stupid over the last two winters, to be even worse this winter......and I live in the South. I feel really sorry for all you Yanks that live up in the REAL cold.

Oh, BTW, Drill Alaska
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
I am wondering just what the yankee's facination with heating oil is all about in the first place...

Can't they heat with clean burning natural gas or electric like regular folk?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
I dont understand why they dont use Whales like in the 1800s. Those things had plenty of oil to go around. Drill Whales and Alaska IMO.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
Oil Co's have had record profits these past few years. We've been getting screwed. They can afford to keep prices at the current level and remain profitable, but why should they? Until consumer behavior changes, they've got a pretty steady demand regardless of price....
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
No one's gonna mention that this has to be one of N8's most reasonable and well thought out posts, possibly, ever? He even suggests that election influence might be involved.

Didn't Saudi say they were opening up reserves a month or two ago? I forget.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,904
2,867
Pōneke
The Government has started distributing US strategic reserves, despite that GW said he wouldn't. Funny feeling it'll stop on Nov 3rd....

(Source: Beeb)
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
N8 said:
I am wondering just what the yankee's facination with heating oil is all about in the first place...

Can't they heat with clean burning natural gas or electric like regular folk?

our house was made in '55 and has a oil tank to heat the house......
we did have the city run new pipes so we have gas coming into the house, now we just gotta git us a furnace.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
pnj said:
our house was made in '55 and has a oil tank to heat the house......
we did have the city run new pipes so we have gas coming into the house, now we just gotta git us a furnace.
There's plenty of seals in the Sound if you take the advice offa here you should be able to harpoon some down that the locks. :p
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
isnt there a chance that prices are being frozen by subsidies or something up there, due to the electoral year????

gas is up to US$4.8 a gallon for 97oct, from low-mid 4s earlier this year.
same thing in venezuela, UK, spain, and basically everywhere i know first hand.

i think if the final consumer price didnt go up in the US somebody else must be taking the blow. are they sudsidizing gas or something up there?
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,904
2,867
Pōneke
No, The US government is releasing Strategic Reserves for political reasons, even though they promied they would not...
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
Changleen said:
No, The US government is releasing Strategic Reserves for political reasons, even though they promied they would not...

hmm, so price hikes are overdue???

thats a tickling granade for the next president.

and if bush wins, i wonder what would be the excuse when the granade blows in his face (in less inappropiate timeframe of course).
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
LordOpie said:
No one's gonna mention that this has to be one of N8's most reasonable and well thought out posts, possibly, ever? He even suggests that election influence might be involved.

Didn't Saudi say they were opening up reserves a month or two ago? I forget.
I was going on the assumption that someone had his password again.

Granted, one diamond in a ocean of sh!t is not too much to get excited about, but I guess it's a start.
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,904
2,867
Pōneke
ALEXIS_DH said:
hmm, so price hikes are overdue???

thats a tickling granade for the next president.

and if bush wins, i wonder what would be the excuse when the granade blows in his face (in less inappropiate timeframe of course).
They'll probably try to sort out Iraq a little more to get a better suply, but if that fails, Tehran better watch out, and I wouldn't fancy my chances as an arctic seal very much.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
ALEXIS_DH said:
and if bush wins, i wonder what would be the excuse when the granade blows in his face (in less inappropiate timeframe of course).
uhh, we have a two-term limit here so Bush couldn't care less what happens *after* he gets re-elected.

Silver said:
Granted, one diamond in a ocean of sh!t is not too much to get excited about, but I guess it's a start.
shhhhush, don't discourage him :blah:
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
14,904
2,867
Pōneke
LordOpie said:
uhh, we have a two-term limit here so Bush couldn't care less what happens *after* he gets re-elected.
I don't think he cared very much this time, either...
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Let me see, Bush has an in with the Saudi royal family thereby working a deal with them to lower the cost of Opec oil... and Iraq was a war fought to keep the price of oil cheap...

daaaamn...

On the positive side, oil exploration and production here in the US is booming at the current rate of $53+ per barrel...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,403
22,481
Sleazattle
N8 said:
I am wondering just what the yankee's facination with heating oil is all about in the first place...

Can't they heat with clean burning natural gas or electric like regular folk?
Electric heat gets really really expensive when the weather gets cold. Heat pumps don't work so well when the temperatured drops into the single digits and below. Gas isn't readily available in many areas. Oil is safer.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
Changleen said:
No, The US government is releasing Strategic Reserves for political reasons, even though they promied they would not...
This is blatantly false. It is not in significant enough quantity for it to have a political effect, other than helping people in florida recover from the hurricanes. You might call that political, but it's exactly what those reserves are there for.

There's all kinds of facked up stuff going on with Bush and OilCos, but this isn't one of them.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Westy said:
Electric heat gets really really expensive when the weather gets cold. Heat pumps don't work so well when the temperatured drops into the single digits and below. Gas isn't readily available in many areas. Oil is safer.

Ah... I forget how cold it actually gets up north... during our 6 weeks of 'winter' we might hit sub 20's once or twice...
 

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,257
881
Lima, Peru, Peru
ohio said:
This is blatantly false. It is not in significant enough quantity for it to have a political effect, other than helping people in florida recover from the hurricanes. You might call that political, but it's exactly what those reserves are there for.

There's all kinds of facked up stuff going on with Bush and OilCos, but this isn't one of them.

then, the question remains. in the high rise in oil prices everywhere and the relative stability in retail gas prices in the US. who is taking the blow????
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
56,403
22,481
Sleazattle
N8 said:
Ah... I forget how cold it actually gets up north... during our 6 weeks of 'winter' we might hit sub 20's once or twice...
Living in central VA with a heatpump sucks. It does not happen much but when the temp drops into the teens or lower you never feel warm. The vents pump out air only a few degrees warmer than the room is. The resulting wind chill sometimes makes it feel warmer when you turn the heat off. I want to get a ventless gas fireplace when it gets really cold.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,649
26
SF, CA
ALEXIS_DH said:
then, the question remains. in the high rise in oil prices everywhere and the relative stability in retail gas prices in the US. who is taking the blow????
Oil companies for now, but it's hardly a blow. There margins have been incredible over the last few years. This should actually bring them back into line of prices at the pump remain stable.