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Help getting a bit more speed on a run-in

Dirtjumper999

Turbo Monkey
Feb 13, 2005
1,556
0
Charlotte, NC
So I wanted to build a new trick step up at my new digging spot, but there wasn't much opportunity other than this 7ft tall plateau of a hill, I built a wooden roll-in that is just behind me in the picture. The roll-in is 11ft tall, and the ramp is 45 degrees. The lip is 6ft tall with roughly a 9ft radius or so. I can get a good amount of speed dropping in and giving one good pedal into the lip. But seeing as how I'd like this to be a step up that puts me high in the air for trying tricks, I'd like if anything to have an abundance of speed. Here is what I am working with.



The two issues I have is one- off of the roll-in there is a very slight incline to hop onto that flat into the lip.
And two that little hop onto the flat is only about 1ft tall but I am afraid it's eating up a lot of speed.

So far, I have only a few ideas of how to fix it.

A. Dig the incline flat and bring that little hill down another foot and just chop the lip down accordingly.

B. Put a little long and low to jump onto that little hill and build a nice wide landing to pump off of.

C. Build my roll-in another few feet taller...


Input, I need input.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
The first thing you need to do is get rid of that damm banana.

You may need the roll in taller. BUT. You may not, without seeing it, it's hard to know for sure.

I don't like long and low's as a means of gaining speed because being in the air is usually slower then not being in the air.

A few good, well placed rollers can do a lot for gaining speed. You don't want ANY uphill before your lip. It seems like you have a lot of distance from the rollin to the lip. You could have two or three rollers in that distance. each roller gets progressively larger.

and make the lip steeper.... :D
 

Zach Dank

Turbo Monkey
Jun 28, 2005
1,296
0
Gnarcal
Long lows are key for speed. Trust me on that one. I've built every size. My latest step up trick jump has a 50 foot long low to it. It has some of the most speed ever seen in the dirt jump world.
Other than that, you need to put in the shovel work and make sure that it is down hill all the way to your take off. Double bowls also work very well for gaining speed.
Good luck dude man.
 

pnj

Turbo Monkey till the fat lady sings
Aug 14, 2002
4,696
40
seattle
damm son. ZD, you think a long and low is better for gaining speed then a proper roller in most scenarios? I think long and low works well if you already have speed but not for gaining speed. I, of course, have no where near the amount of dirt moving experience that you do....
 

Zach Dank

Turbo Monkey
Jun 28, 2005
1,296
0
Gnarcal
Nah. It works both ways fosho. If you can rock a 25 foot tall roll in, by all means hit it. lol
But if ya can't, i know for a fact properly built long lows generate serious speed. Not speed already had, but more speed. I'm not the guy to break down the science of it, but i do know what my wheels have told me many times.
 

TortugaTonta

Monkey
Aug 27, 2008
539
0
bowl the bottom of the rollin so it doesn't go from 45 to flat, put a lip on that bowl for a long low. If you want a whole lot of speed waterfall the landing of the long low so you have to land in a manual and dive the front wheel down the second step of the landing, double pumping a landing like that generates great speed, that is what I have for a uphill section at my trails and it works better than anything I have ever built.

Here it is in roughed in form, its a little longer now. The cool thing is that you can manual the whole thing racer style and its like shifting up a gear.

 
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Dirtjumper999

Turbo Monkey
Feb 13, 2005
1,556
0
Charlotte, NC
bowl the bottom of the rollin so it doesn't go from 45 to flat
There is a really smooth transition at the bottom of the roll-in, something like 15ft radius.

As a bit more of a description, from the bottom of the roll-in to that little hill is about 20ft, then from the beginning of that little hill to the lip is about 10ft.

Also I would love to do a waterfall into it, but the problem is drainage for that would be terrible to work out, because then the bottom of the waterfall would be way lower than the natural surface of the ground.
 

tootall

Chimp
Apr 14, 2011
13
0
I would dig out the little hill to the level of the rest of the approach and use that dirt to make a roller that would give you a speed boost into the step up lip.
 

don

Turbo Monkey
Nov 8, 2001
1,319
0
Rumson, NJ
How about having for the drop-in build a big flat section then drop down to a landing going right into a long-low?

Drop in part looks like what Dane Searls has at his trails (around 2:17):
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
At the indoor bikepark I used to ride at (Ramp Ranch), we used to have a 10 or 12 foot tall roll-in to a 4 foot tall box jump (with an 8 foot gap). You had plenty of speed to get like 6 feet above the box (which if you think about it, means you were getting back up to the 10 feet elevation above ground level).

Here it is (view from the landing side):


So, your roll-in is 11 feet tall. Should be okay. I think the real issue is the 45 degree angle. I'm thinking the roll-in should be either taller or steeper (or both).

If you think about roll-ins in terms of vert ramps or flat-bank ditches, when you drop in one side from a 12 foot elevation, (ignoring pump for second), you have roughly enough kinetic energy to almost get to the top on the other side (at which point you'll stall out). Similarly, rollercoasters never go higher than the starting elevation. The only reason riders can go higher on their first, second, third, and fourth air on a vert ramp is pump.

Because you're dropping in at 45 degrees you are not getting as much speed as if you were dropping in 75 degrees, or on vert. Therefore you're only getting enough speed to barely get up another 45 degree incline, barely to 11 feet. That's not enough for speed for boosting out of a lip that is more like 70 degrees of arc and a parabolic path of 70 degrees or more when you launch into the air.

Does that make sense?

Long-and-lows definitely do add speed (especially when they are longer than the set right after)...but I'm not sure a single long-and-low is going to give you enough for what you are wanting to do. Although it's still kinda hard to know, without actually watching you ride your setup.






Roll-ins
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228191


This thing looks to be about 45 degrees decline. Do you crank down it when you drop in ?!?
 
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RJ2

Chimp
Dec 9, 2008
8
0
chicago
bowl the bottom of the rollin so it doesn't go from 45 to flat, put a lip on that bowl for a long low. If you want a whole lot of speed waterfall the landing of the long low so you have to land in a manual and dive the front wheel down the second step of the landing, double pumping a landing like that generates great speed, that is what I have for a uphill section at my trails and it works better than anything I have ever built.

Here it is in roughed in form, its a little longer now. The cool thing is that you can manual the whole thing racer style and its like shifting up a gear.

hell yeah, we have something like this at our trails but about half the size, works wonders for generating speed.
 

Dirtjumper999

Turbo Monkey
Feb 13, 2005
1,556
0
Charlotte, NC
Did a ton of work on it today, pretty sure I will have it dialed when it all dries. I brought that little hill down about 6inches, also dropped the lip about 6inches and made it a bit steeper. Then added a really wide roller about 10ft after the transition for the roll-in. WHOOSH. I think I will also make the roll-in a bit taller and steeper which will give me more than enough speed.
 

nyhc00

Monkey
Jul 19, 2010
496
0
CT
is there enough room to build a little kicker before the roll in and use the roll in as a lander? Just something to pop you up so you could nose it in hard into the roll in/lander.
 

anto3232

Chimp
May 7, 2011
1
0
How about having for the drop-in build a big flat section then drop down to a landing going right into a long-low?

Drop in part looks like what Dane Searls has at his trails (around 2:17):
wow i only thought dirt bikers went huge, that was insaneeee, damn that was a bail and a half