[Dog Welder]

Yes I know hayes sucks...that's why I buy hopes...its just that these came with the bike I bought...and I can't get the pads to center correctly on the rotor. as it stands right now the outer pad rubs just slightly on the rotor...normally not a problem but it does take away from the braking ability...when you hit the brakes that pad pushes the rotor into the other one. I've done the "hold the brake, loosen bolt, retighten bolt" technique as described in the Hayes tech book. Normally I would try to shim it out like every other brake designer out there but as it stands its the outer pad so using shims would push that pad even farther in. Any points?

 

[thaflyinfatman]

Are they mechanicals or hydraulics?

Have you considered spacing out your dropouts? ie just chuck a washer between the hub and the left-side drops.

 

[Mecannoman]

Your LBS may have the Magura tool to face the inside of the caliper mounting surfaces. This tool mounts in the dropouts, and removes paint from the disc tabs to a customized depth.

You could file the frame/fork, but that is not very precise.

 

[Tweek]

If hydraulic, did you try taking the pads out, gently pushing in the pistons with the box end of an 8mm (or maybe it's 10mm) wrench, replacing the pads, and trying the "loosen bolts, squeeze lever, tighten bolts" again?

 

[AZRacerX]

Like Tweek said, take the pads out and use a 10mm box-end wrench to push the pistons into the caliper. Be sure not to touch the little tabs that the pads lock into because they damage easily. After you do that, reassembly everything with the caliper loose on the frame. Slide a business card on each side of the rotor between the rotor and the pads. Squeeze the brake a few times, and then release. Then with the cards still in place, tighten the caliper to the frame. Remove the business cards and you are set.

 

[ohio]

I normally have to manually adjust them a smidgen after the loosen-grab-lever-tighten routine. That usually takes care of it. Takes an extra 30 seconds tops.

 

[oldfart]

Use the biz card technique but only use one ,on the rubbing side.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Throw them in the river and buy more Hopes

 

[Rustmouse]

Keeping in mind that hayes are simple brakes (far simpler than the hopes) and Hayes has been making hydraulic brakes since hydraulic brakes were invented on cars, they're not the worst option.

If you try centering the pads repeatedly and find that you still keep having rub problems, something to look at is the caliper centering itself (look at the gap between the caliper and the disc, is it about even on both sides?... don't look at the pads, just the caliper)

Depending on the bike, i've found that the mounts aren't as accurate as they should be... the paint on the bike, the mounts not quite threaded correctly, the welds where the disk brake mount is on the swingarm, etc. To make the brakes fit correctly, and align correctly, it may require some filing/machining/shimming. (hence the Magura brake mount facing tool)

Many bikes, even more expensive bikes just don't have their machining quite as good as we want. (Many bikes are made in Taiwan, as a subcontractor for an american brand) Just tweaking it a bit will usually make everything work right.

If you were an engineer, and specified parts to the tolerances that bicycles are required to be made to, you wouldn't have them welded, you'd have most of the parts machined. Bicycles are kind of like bumblebees, they shouldn't be able to fly the way they're put together, but they still do.

 

[Repack]

I like to use an old credit card/hotel key card or similar, one on each side of the rotor. This will push the pads in all the way, and make it easier to center the caliper over the rotor. It will save you the trouble of taking tha pads out. With the cards in, point the lever up(bleed position) and slowly loosen the bleed screw. Keep a rag close by.Only a few drops should come out, if any. When Hayes brakes are bled, it is possible to over fill the system. Since the bladder is made of rubber, it tries to push fluid back into the system. This is why it is possible to have a system working perfect in the stand, then have it start rubbing. After you take the cards out/tighten the screw, pump the lever a few times. It will give you a good amout of lever throw and feel. I would only try this with newer pads. If you try it with old pads, don't try to let off any oil.

 

[MikeD]

Originally posted by James_00
I like to use an old credit card/hotel key card or similar, one on each side of the rotor. This will push the pads in all the way, and make it easier to center the caliper over the rotor. It will save you the trouble of taking tha pads out. With the cards in, point the lever up(bleed position) and slowly loosen the bleed screw. Keep a rag close by.Only a few drops should come out, if any. When Hayes brakes are bled, it is possible to over fill the system. Since the bladder is made of rubber, it tries to push fluid back into the system. This is why it is possible to have a system working perfect in the stand, then have it start rubbing. After you take the cards out/tighten the screw, pump the lever a few times. It will give you a good amout of lever throw and feel. I would only try this with newer pads. If you try it with old pads, don't try to let off any oil.

Wow...that sort of answers my burning question about the credit card method...I never understood why it would make a difference to use them, when the pads will re-center themselves on the thickness of the rotor as soon as you pull the lever once the cards are gone. It's not like the pistons have memory or anything...

Still, 95% of Hayes users (or more) probably aren't using this method...and the credit card 'trick' is as worthless as I think it is for them, no?

 

[Repack]

The pistons do have memory-thats how the system adjusts to pad wear. When you pull the lever, the pistons will move in until they contact something (the rotor). This is why with no wheel in the bike, if you squeeze the brakes, the pads will touch. When you let go, the pistons will only retract so far. This is how they adjust. What I was talking about has as much to do with getting out extra fluid as centering the caliper. With the bolts loose and 2 cards, the caliper is centered over the rotor. Hayes is the only brake company that I know of to use a rubber bag style blatter for the resevoir. As the fluid heats up, the bag expands. As the fluid cools, it gets pushed back in to the system. When you bleed Hayes, it is possible that the pistons move in a bit. This is where the extra fluid volume comes from.

 

[MikeD]

Sorry, by memory I meant memory of their initial setting. While it's true they'll withdraw a specified and consistent amount from the point of contact, they won't 'remember' that you put business cards on either side of the rotor when you did the initial setup.

People use the cards thinking they're tricking the system into 'setting' itself with a bit of extra space on either side of the rotor (thickness of the cards) and thus avoiding rub...which is true until you pull the lever again and the pads reset themselves on the thickness of the rotor itself.

MD

Ed: Thanks again for making actual sense of the credit card method for me...but I don't think most Hayes users do what you describe and bleed off the extra fluid volume. They just use the cards on either side of the rotor when they're centering the caliper, which I still maintain is useless after you squeeze the lever. Me...I use Hopes, lol.

 

[Locosrus]

Did you solve the problem yet?
If not, and if you don't want to do all the things listed above just yet, try this

Well maybe I should ask first.
Do you still have the little oval washers that fit between the bolt head and the caliper? I'm talking about the bolts that secure the caliper to the adapter.

Well if you are still using them you should consider getting rid of them the bolt usually carves a groove in them and when you try to retighten them they just fall right back into the groove making it come out of adjustment.

I took mine out and havent had any problems with them coming lose or nothing, even Hayes says it's ok to do it.

Also
something nobody has mentioned is:
sometimes one of the pistons does not retract all the way, it's not common but it does happen. if this seems to be the case try taking out the wheel and the pads.
Very carefully squeeze the lever so the pistons push out a little I'm talking a couple of millimiters then put a few drops of brake fluid in there as to lubricate the "o" rings that fit between the piston and the caliper body, You might not see them but they are in there, when you lube them with the brake fluid try to work the lube in there by squeezing the lever gently and pushing the piston back in with a 10mm box wrench as described above in somebody's post.

When you get them nice and lubed clean as much of it as possible, pushe the pistons as far as they will go, install the pads, then do the whole bitness card dealio.

Man if none of this works I don't know what will.
well I might