[dexterq20]

I've never lived anywhere where it snows, but I recently moved to the mountains and will be needing to buy snow tires for my front wheel drive Mazda wagon. I know nothing about car wheels and tires, or snow tires for that matter, so I'm hoping you snow-friendly monkeys can help me out. It is probably worth mentioning that I will be living at the base of Squaw Valley ski resort in Lake Tahoe, CA, so I will be dealing with significant amounts of snow this winter.

Stock wheels on my car are 16", and I've heard it's good to do minus 1 sizing for snow tires, which means I'll most likely be buying 15" steel rims to accompany my new snow tires. Question: Will I have to get my odometer and speedometer recalibrated if I install smaller diameter wheels?

Second issue: studded tires or non-studded? Obviously studded tires will provide superior traction, but is it worth it? I've seen tons of non-studded snow tire options, and I'm wondering if these will be sufficient. It seems like studded tires would be pretty annoying on the days when the roads are clear.

And finally, a truly noob-esque question regarding wheel and tire sizing: I'm gonna try to buy the wheels and tires used on Craigslist, which means I'll most likely be buying the wheels separately from the tires. Will any 15" tire fit on any 15" rim, or do I need to pay attention to the widths? The wheels I've found so far on Craigslist don't list widths, only diameters. Is this standard, or will I need to find out the width of the rims before buying tires?

Thanks, and feel free to add any advice or tips you deem necessary.

 

[SquadraCorse]

I've never lived anywhere where it snows, but I recently moved to the mountains and will be needing to buy snow tires for my front wheel drive Mazda wagon. I know nothing about car wheels and tires, or snow tires for that matter, so I'm hoping you snow-friendly monkeys can help me out. It is probably worth mentioning that I will be living at the base of Squaw Valley ski resort in Lake Tahoe, CA, so I will be dealing with significant amounts of snow this winter.

Stock wheels on my car are 16", and I've heard it's good to do minus 1 sizing for snow tires, which means I'll most likely be buying 15" steel rims to accompany my new snow tires. Question: Will I have to get my odometer and speedometer recalibrated if I install smaller diameter wheels?

Second issue: studded tires or non-studded? Obviously studded tires will provide superior traction, but is it worth it? I've seen tons of non-studded snow tire options, and I'm wondering if these will be sufficient. It seems like studded tires would be pretty annoying on the days when the roads are clear.

And finally, a truly noob-esque question regarding wheel and tire sizing: I'm gonna try to buy the wheels and tires used on Craigslist, which means I'll most likely be buying the wheels separately from the tires. Will any 15" tire fit on any 15" rim, or do I need to pay attention to the widths? The wheels I've found so far on Craigslist don't list widths, only diameters. Is this standard, or will I need to find out the width of the rims before buying tires?

Thanks, and feel free to add any advice or tips you deem necessary.

1: The outer circumference of your tire does not change if you go to a smaller diameter rim. If you go from 16" to 15", the sidewall of the tire gets taller, the outer diameter of the tire stays the same. So no you do not need to get anything calibrated.

2: Unless there is heaps of Ice, I would go non studded. The studs, IMO, are irrelevant unless you're ice racing.

3: You will need to know the width.

PM me with your make and model and I can tell you what you need.

 

[jimmydean]

I ride the bus, sorry.

 

[blue]

Question: Will I have to get my odometer and speedometer recalibrated if I install smaller diameter wheels?

No. You really don't need to step down a size, either. Only motivation to do so would be cost, and the difference isn't too great. I'm almost positive it won't be an issue on your car, but sometimes there isn't enough clearance for the brakes if you go smaller than stock.

Second issue: studded tires or non-studded? Obviously studded tires will provide superior traction, but is it worth it? I've seen tons of non-studded snow tire options, and I'm wondering if these will be sufficient. It seems like studded tires would be pretty annoying on the days when the roads are clear.

Non-studded. Tire technology has come a very long way in the past 20 years, and unless you drive exclusively on sheets of ice, studded isn't really needed. You'll do your ears, your fuel mileage, and the roads a favor by sticking with studless tires.

And finally, a truly noob-esque question regarding wheel and tire sizing: I'm gonna try to buy the wheels and tires used on Craigslist, which means I'll most likely be buying the wheels separately from the tires. Will any 15" tire fit on any 15" rim, or do I need to pay attention to the widths? The wheels I've found so far on Craigslist don't list widths, only diameters. Is this standard, or will I need to find out the width of the rims before buying tires?

Thanks, and feel free to add any advice or tips you deem necessary.

I'd strongly advise against buying your wheels used off CL unless they came off of another Protege or you know exactly what you're buying. Things like width, et, hub bore, offset, all those things come into play when getting new wheels from a private seller that they generally don't know. Tirerack usually has a great pre-winter combo deal where they give you 4 steelies and 4 winter tires for $400-500. That, or you can run snow tires on your current wheels and pay the $50 or so it costs to mount your summer tires in the spring. Hell, a lot of tire places will remount your summer tires free in the spring if you get the winter tires from them in the fall.

 

[jsh191]

i highly recommend tirerack.com for any tire purchase inquiries. by far, one of the most comprehensive and well organized sites there is for the purchasing of rubber hoops.

btw, they typically run some pretty sweet winter wheel and tire packages.

 

[stoney]

blizztek. end of discussion.
See Tirerack.com for purchase, have them sent to a tire rack affiliate for cheap install.
/thread

 

[geargrrl]

switching tires on and off rims really trashes the beads.

Instead of studs, you might look into "siping" these are extra cuts that they'll put into the tread that enhances traction on ice.

Too bad you don't have Les Schwab there, I just buy what they sell me. ;-) Free ration, balancing, repairs and bolt on tire change overs.

We get tons of solid ice on the roads around here (large size skating rink) so we keep studs on our cars. Also with our ski patrolling,we can ALWAYS get up the mountain.

Front wheel drives are awesome in the snow. The only time our 4x4 is better is if it's really, really deep.

 

[stoney]

Also, look into a cheap set of steel rims for you winter tires. It will allow you to get a few seasons out of them.

 

[SquadraCorse]

blizztek. end of discussion.
See Tirerack.com for purchase, have them sent to a tire rack affiliate for cheap install.
/thread

It's Blizzak I believe.

 

[dexterq20]

Here's Tirerack.com's explanation for minus sizing: http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=126

Sounds pretty logical to me.

But... is it really worth it to buy new wheels too? It just seems so much easier (and cheaper) to use my existing wheels and have a tire shop swap my tires twice a year.

 

[geargrrl]

Here's Tirerack.com's explanation for minus sizing: http://www.tirerack.com/winter/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=126

Sounds pretty logical to me.

But... is it really worth it to buy new wheels too? It just seems so much easier (and cheaper) to use my existing wheels and have a tire shop swap my tires twice a year.

Our shops charge $40 a bolt on change out.That's $80 a year. If you can get some junkyard rims, you'll pay for them in a year of saved fees.

We have one set of snow rims that is on it's third Ford.

 

[CRoss]

Getting a set of wheels for your snow tires will be cheaper in the long run vs. paying to have tires swapped every spring/fall. Also if you get a freak early snow you can just jack up your car and swap things out. You do not have to wait in line at the tire shop with everyone else.

Studded tires vs non-studded, ask the locals. Different cities have different snow clearing plans. I am surprised how many mountain towns do not seem real concerned with clearing snow down to bare pavement. I think some ski towns do this on purpose to help with their image to customers. If you will be on packed snow a lot the studded tires will benefit you.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

After thirty years of driving in Vermont:

- Don't screw around with size.
- Cheap steel rims.
- Hakkapellita tires.
- Studs.
- (oh yeah) Get four.

It takes only one real bad patch of black ice to ruin your day.

 

[in the trees]

- Don't screw around with size.
- Cheap steel rims.
- Hakkapellita tires.
- Studs.

I agree. Studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta. Excellent on the cars we've owned! Seems like most cars up here in VT run these in the winter.

toby

 

[dexterq20]

- Don't screw around with size.
- Studs.

It looks like I'm gonna have to do the minus sizing, because after doing further research, pretty much the only tires in the stock size for my car (195/50R16) are some really expensive Pirellis. There are, however, a ton of tires available in the 195/55R15 size, including the highly-rated Bridgestone Blizzak WS60.

I'm really hesitant to do studded tires because my car will definitely be seeing some extended freeway miles this winter (occasional trips from Lake Tahoe to Mammoth), and everything I've read says that studded tires are no bueno at freeway speeds.

 

[wrestlemania]

I live in the highest incorporated town in the us (altitude wise) where it snows 8 months out of the year, in fact just last month it snowed 12 inch plus above 12000. Some people even got some turns in. What I have come to learn is that I just get a good set of all season tires, I prefer Maxxis Maurders for my grand cherokee but having the four wheel drive helps. When I had the neon I did get some blizzaks which were the $h!t but spendy especially if you don't take em off right away cause they wear thin when driven on anything but snow. I had studs one year but similar to the snow tires once the studs wore down the tire became hard and they slid like having skis on there. Generally the road crews are on top of snow removal 1 time in ten years it was so deep and unmaintained that my bumper was pushing the snow up over the hood, in the neon. The thing that scares me the most are instant white out conditions caused by blowing snow

 

[sanjuro]

Ben, my advice for driving the snow:

1. Drive 10 mph faster than normal. It helps to push the snow off the road.
2. Those traffic warnings by Caltrans: ignore them.
3. Snow improves your brake surfaces, so you can go from 50-0 in about 15 feet. Try it at a red light.
4. I have some advice about car selection: http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194480

 

[SkaredShtles]

After thirty years of driving in Vermont:

- Don't screw around with size.
- Cheap steel rims.
- Hakkapellita tires.
- Studs.
- (oh yeah) Get four.

It takes only one real bad patch of black ice to ruin your day.

He's in California. The sun comes out during the winter.

No need for studded tires.

 

[[tHe] Saint]

After thirty years of driving in Vermont:

- Don't screw around with size.
- Cheap steel rims.
- Hakkapellita tires.
- Studs.
- (oh yeah) Get four.

It takes only one real bad patch of black ice to ruin your day.

I totally agree here except for with "Don't screw around with size."

Minus sizing involves having a smaller rim, and usually a thicker tire to make up the size difference. The benefit of this thicker tire is that it will flex easier giving you better traction and you won't have to worry about your speedometer.

Get cheap steel rims so you only have to put the tires on the rims once, and take them off when they wear out (unless you get a flat). This will save the bead on the tires from wear and tear and just possible damage to the complete tire itself (I've wreck a few sidewalls on tires before taking them off)

Nokian Hakkapellita tires are awesome! Nokian knows their stuff, they are a Norwegian company, they are the largest tire manufacturer in the nordic countries, the know their s*** ! I had to go to a big seminar on the company when I worked at a tire store.

Get studs. Like what was said before, takes one run into a sheet of ice to ruin your day, especially with a thin fresh layer of snow on top of it. Also where there is snow plus traffic usually = ice. All those vehicles traveling over snow and compacting it eventually turns it into ice. And if your gonna do any mountain driving its best to have studs, especially since those roads are gonna get plowed less or de-iced less.

He's in California. The sun comes out during the winter.

No need for studded tires.

BTW: the sun melts snow, causing it to freeze later when the sun goes down turning it into ICE

 

[Da Peach]

hmm. Well, if you haven't had a ton of experience driving in the snow, start slow and practice in the Walmart parking lot.

I've got non studded snow tires on my Mazda3 and they've been awesome. Toyo Garit HTs are what I've got. Quite good traction in the snowy conditions as well as the dry cold conditions.

Good luck. Practice, and don't drive like a pvssy.

 

[mantispf2000]

I've had excellent results with the Michellin X-Ice's here in the Lake Tahoe area. Got them from Costco, free rotations, and, at the time, $20 to mount/re-mount them for the proper seasons. Granted, only got 2 1/2 seasons worth of use, however, liked them better than the studded tires I got one year........

 

[SkaredShtles]

[QUOTE='[tHe] <snip>
BTW: the sun melts snow, causing it to freeze later when the sun goes down turning it into ICE[/QUOTE]
Hmmm... around here it more often than not melts then evaporates... leaving nice, dry pavement.

I'm just saying that I'd expect studs might be overkill for his needs. And the drawbacks of studded tires are real.

 

[[tHe] Saint]

Hmmm... around here it more often than not melts then evaporates... leaving nice, dry pavement.

I'm just saying that I'd expect studs might be overkill for his needs. And the drawbacks of studded tires are real.

and the drawbacks to studless are real, especially for a novice driver to snow/ice conditions

 

[johnbryanpeters]

It looks like I'm gonna have to do the minus sizing, because after doing further research, pretty much the only tires in the stock size for my car (195/50R16) are some really expensive Pirellis. There are, however, a ton of tires available in the 195/55R15 size, including the highly-rated Bridgestone Blizzak WS60.

I'm really hesitant to do studded tires because my car will definitely be seeing some extended freeway miles this winter (occasional trips from Lake Tahoe to Mammoth), and everything I've read says that studded tires are no bueno at freeway speeds.

They aren't. If you drive a long way at speeds much over 60 they start spitting studs. I just slow down in the winter. Think carefully, it's your life.

 

[skunkty14]

Personally I'm a fan of non-studded winter tires, but as seen here everyone has differing opinions on them. I think they're overkill in 90% of winter driving situations but that other 10% they're amazing.

Spitting studs isn't that big an issue IMO; I have a co-worker who commutes 200mi daily (Maine to Boston) on studded tires and gets ~3 seasons per set before the studs are pretty much worthless.

If you go non-studded, Blizzak LM-25s are the ducks nuts. A little pricey but you gotta pay to play.

 

[geargrrl]

hmm. Well, if you haven't had a ton of experience driving in the snow, start slow and practice in the Walmart parking lot.

I've got non studded snow tires on my Mazda3 and they've been awesome. Toyo Garit HTs are what I've got. Quite good traction in the snowy conditions as well as the dry cold conditions.

Good luck. Practice, and don't drive like a pvssy.

Do you have 17"or 18"s on your 3? I've got the 5 door GT and it's got 18" wheels and I have a feeling getting snow rims for this is going to be a spendy pain in the butt. Also, does your 3 have the traction/stabilizer? We test drove in 9" of snowy slop with that feature and it was great.

gg

 

[Ian F]

I agree studded are overkill unless you drive in snow a LOT. Also... they're not always legal to use in some areas (you guys in VT don't have to worry about this).

I have snows on my TDI for the Winter... but mainly because I run sticky, summer-only tires in the warmer months... even still, unless you see a lot of snow, even studless snows can be overkill... here in PA & NJ, we can get by with all-seasons since it really hasn't snowed enough that all-seasons and some common sense behind the wheel is good enough. If conditions really go to hell, there's a 4x4 truck parked in my driveway... But it has to be really bad as the beast weighs about 6000 lbs and doesn't stop worth a damn... It really boils down to the fact that if some jack-ass in an "invincible" SUV (but of coruse, he's running 22" street tires) were to plow into me, I can replace the truck much easier than my TDI.

FWIW, I've had Blizzaks and they are great tires... when they're new... but after one season and the super-sticky layer of rubber wears off, they turn into crappy tires and are pretty much useless. Add to the fact they are horrible in dry conditions and scary in wet conditions and I'll never buy another set. I'll admit that when new, they're freakin incredible in snow... will make you feel invincible. I'm running Pirelli Winter Carvers now. Not as good in snow as new Blizzaks, but more consistant over their tread life and much better during the 90% of the time there's no snow on the roads.

I'll add another vote for tirerack.com.

 

[geargrrl]

anyone buy tires at Costco? I have been a die hard Les Schwab customer for years and years. I can save 50% on the snow wheels I need IF I get my tires at Costco - comments anyone?

gg

 

[DH Diva]

I agree. Studded Nokian Hakkapeliitta. Excellent on the cars we've owned! Seems like most cars up here in VT run these in the winter.

toby

Ditto. I have these on my passat wagon and they rock! I've had other snow tires in the past but these just blow everything out of the water.

Last bad ice storm, almost every single car on the road (including some with snow tires) were sliding and slipping all over the place......except for me. I had such good traction I didn't even realize how bad the ice was until I saw 3-4 cars all blow through the same stop light because they couldn't stop.

 

[dan-o]

anyone buy tires at Costco? I have been a die hard Les Schwab customer for years and years. I can save 50% on the snow wheels I need IF I get my tires at Costco - comments anyone?

gg

I have. If they have the tire you want it can be a great deal. The only drawbacks I've noticed are 1) they inflate tires to max inflation rating only 2) they only install tire sizes to OEM spec if mounting tires to the vehicle (they will mount any size if you just bring in the rims).

 

[SkaredShtles]

I've gotten snow tires from Costco. Michelin X-Ice. Great tires in the slippery.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Costco has a pretty good meat department. NY strip!

 

[SkaredShtles]

Costco has a pretty good meat department. NY strip!

Costco beef FTW!!

 

[Sandwich]

I had a set of goodyear eagle snow tires for my quattro...they were unbeatable in the snow. I even had them on my MR2 which was so much fun...sadly the open diff would allow it to get stuck, but braking and turning were excellent.

If you live someplace where it snows LOTS regularly, I would say get studs, especially if your commute is short. If it's long, and involves highways, you're probably better off slowing down when it gets bad out and not dealing with the dry pavement trade offs. Also, if it's likely that you'll be travelling mostly on dry roads, with the occasional snow storm, I'd say get studless. I had no problems with mine using caution and driving normally, even with a non-awd vehicle. With AWD is simply too much fun.

As for current tires, I'd go with whatever got the best EDITOR reviews on tirerack. End users are usually not versed enough to know what works and what doesn't. You or I might know that our tires are horrible or satisfactory, but we probably don't know that one is better than the other unless we have tons of money to try out multiple tires.

I bought my set used through an audi website, I spent 150 for 8 rims and 5 snow tires, mounted and balanced...you just have to look. look fast though, winter is coming.

edit: I will say that I have heard great things about nokian Hakka's from several sources all over the place.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Here's some interesting information from Tirerack.com. I've bolded the parts that surprised me:

Establishing the Firestone Winterforce studded winter tire's 60-foot acceleration times as our basis of comparison (and assigning it a traction index of 100), we found that the slightly faster Michelin X-Ice earned a traction index of 101, while the faster still Dunlop Graspic DS-2 earned a traction index of 108, and the new Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 tires completed the course with the fastest time and earned a traction index of 115. We were surprised when all three of today's high-technology studless winter tires were able to provide more acceleration traction on ice than the studded winter tires!

Then we demonstrated each tire's ability to corner on ice as the car negotiated a simulated 90-degree right hand street corner while maintaining a predetermined speed. With traffic cones set every 6 feet along a line representing the center of the road being turned onto, we could determine how tight an arc the tire's traction would allow the car to maintain.

During the cornering test, the Blizzak WS60 consistently completed our 90-degree right hand street corner at the target speed without making contact with any cones, followed by the Graspic DS-2 and the X-Ice. Surprisingly, the studded Firestone Winterforce had the most difficult time completing the corner.

At the end of this test we learned that today's advanced tread compound and design technologies exceeded that of the traditional traction of studs on ice. Considering that only about six studs are in contact with the ice at any one time as the tire rolls across its surface, we found that the weak link is the ice itself, which chips away during contact with the studs. The ruts left on the surface of the ice showed that the studs were making contact, but the ice itself just wasn't strong enough to be considered a good traction partner for the tires.

Especially considering the unacceptable noise generated when studs contact dry and wet roads, we recommend using today's advanced tread compound and design technologies to drive through snow and on ice in winter.

I'm kind of curious why they didn't do a stop-distance test.

 

[[tHe] Saint]

Here's some interesting information from Tirerack.com. I've bolded the parts that surprised me:

Establishing the Firestone Winterforce studded winter tire's 60-foot acceleration times as our basis of comparison (and assigning it a traction index of 100), we found that the slightly faster Michelin X-Ice earned a traction index of 101, while the faster still Dunlop Graspic DS-2 earned a traction index of 108, and the new Bridgestone Blizzak WS60 tires completed the course with the fastest time and earned a traction index of 115. We were surprised when all three of today's high-technology studless winter tires were able to provide more acceleration traction on ice than the studded winter tires!

Then we demonstrated each tire's ability to corner on ice as the car negotiated a simulated 90-degree right hand street corner while maintaining a predetermined speed. With traffic cones set every 6 feet along a line representing the center of the road being turned onto, we could determine how tight an arc the tire's traction would allow the car to maintain.

During the cornering test, the Blizzak WS60 consistently completed our 90-degree right hand street corner at the target speed without making contact with any cones, followed by the Graspic DS-2 and the X-Ice. Surprisingly, the studded Firestone Winterforce had the most difficult time completing the corner.

At the end of this test we learned that today's advanced tread compound and design technologies exceeded that of the traditional traction of studs on ice. Considering that only about six studs are in contact with the ice at any one time as the tire rolls across its surface, we found that the weak link is the ice itself, which chips away during contact with the studs. The ruts left on the surface of the ice showed that the studs were making contact, but the ice itself just wasn't strong enough to be considered a good traction partner for the tires.

Especially considering the unacceptable noise generated when studs contact dry and wet roads, we recommend using today's advanced tread compound and design technologies to drive through snow and on ice in winter.

I'm kind of curious why they didn't do a stop-distance test.

they need to throw the Nokian tire in there and see how it does

 

[jonKranked]

fvck yo car and fvck snow tires! learn to drive like a man, b*tch!

 

[Sandwich]

fvck yo car and fvck snow tires! learn to drive like a man, b*tch!

are you pinkshoesphotos? NASCAR IN TEH SNOWS, YO

 

[The DH]

Check out any of the Conti winter ish's, I have a set for winter and summer.

 

[SkaredShtles]

they need to throw the Nokian tire in there and see how it does

They should throw the non-studded Nokian in there. See how it does against the studded.

Bottom line is that studless snows may very well be better than studded snows.