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Help Me Choose a New Frame - 3 choices.

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
Ok, so I am currently on a specialized demo 9 built up with a fox 40, mavic 823's, saint brakes, all 2007+ parts. I want something a little more maneuverable, lighter (my frame is 13.5lbs after all), a lower bb height, and I already appreciate the 63 deg head angle. I want a full on race machine. I will be doing very very little freeriding, 95% race type terrain and race weekends this coming season.

Background (OPTIONAL, skip if you just want to answer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Last season I did a lot of freeriding, but towards the end of the season I went to some GES races and was inspired to start racing. I then went to diablo at the end of the season for the first time since the beginning of the season and was riding every trail so much faster. I already am beginning to train for next season, and the only thing I want to possibly hold me back is my own skill. If I can throw my physical weakness and bad stamina out the window, and get a real race machine, I can focus on just getting faster and more skilled.

Now I am not super super fast or really slow. I want to move to cat 1 soon. But I intend to keep this frame, whichever frame I get, for AT LEAST 2 seasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Important Part:
Here is where I need your input. Give me a real life experience on one of these bikes, an "e-speculation", or anything that can help me narrow it down. I want to hear if you've known people that have had problems with these frames too, or even what your friends say about them. All info will help.

ALSO, answer as if all the frames cost an equal amount. All the frames cost $2,000. If I have to spend extra to get something I am happy with, I will do it willingly.

The two bikes are:
Commencal Supreme year 2009+- DH-Proven, like the adjustability.
Canfield Jedi-Small rider based company, nice guys it would seem, like the rearward movement, but not the head angle (I am not as skilled and put my wheel where it should not be sometimes).

Thanks guys.
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,571
24,186
media blackout
The only one I have saddle time with is the Jedi. Frikkin' phenomenal. That bike wanted me to go faster. It simply rails. The build quality is top notch as well. Don't let the head angle sway you, you'll learn to love it. They can take a lot of abuse as well! The one I rode belonged to a guy who was definitely a clydesdale (around 240lbs), and he did not have one single issue on it.

All accounts I've heard indicate that Chris and Lance (the actual Canfield bros) are top notch guys who love riding.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
Well, there aren't many people with real-world experience on the TR450 so you won't get much except e-speculation on that one. Initial indications seem positive though. This one is still on my list so I'm also waiting to hear real feedback.
 

Stylecat

Chimp
Aug 27, 2009
5
0
I've only tried the Canfield of the 3, but i'm loving it! I'm wreally happy with the canfield, doesn't feel steep in the front at all. The frame is lightweight, playfoul,and has a spot on geo. The Canfield bros makes some nice frames!

I've had mine for 1 season and it's been used and abused in all kind of conditions(bikeparks like whistler and hafjell, and a lot of hike a bike).

U can't go wrong with any of those frames tho.
 

time-bomb

Monkey
May 2, 2008
957
21
right here -> .
I haven't ridden the Jedi but I have ridden/owned a Canfield and can say that both guys are awesome to deal with and will take good care of you. The Jedi doesn't need a super slack HA due to the fact that rear wheel has quite a bit of rearward travel. You will never feel like you are going to go over the bars. Call Chris or Lance and they can explain this in a more technical and detailed manner than I can.
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
Okay, thanks guys. I have a friend who rides on and loves it too. He has told me all about the ride characteristics, but you know how the saying goes "to each his own" Everyone views things differently.

Anyone hear anything about the commencal? I have hard cracking near the headtubes on the old DH supreme near the headtubes (09 and before), but not the newer ones.
 

yd35

Monkey
Oct 28, 2008
741
61
NY
I know you want us to assume that all the frames cost around the same. That's reasonable for the Commencal and Transition (around 2500), but the Jedi retails at 3150. Maybe you are getting a crazy hookup or a used frame, but a new Jedi normally represents a significantly higher price tag. Personally, I'm not convinced it's worth it. Most DH frames these days are comparably excellent, and believe me, I realize the sexiness/lust factor of a boutique frame, but you may not necessarily be getting 650 more bucks of bike with the Jedi. I don't have saddle time with any of the bikes, so of course this is all e-speculation.
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
True true. Someone I know has a slightly used jedi for sale I am considering. It is in the price range of the other two.

Also, the reason I said assume they are all the same price is because I don't want to compromise. I am going to have this frame for a while, and I don't want to loose time because of a bike. I think my demo 9 is holding me back a little right now. Sure, Sam Hill could beat me on a huffy in theory, you could use that, but the bike can make a difference. Just try riding a park bmx bike at a bmx track, and then ride a race bmx bike at a race track. Track times can improve.
 

DHRracer

Monkey
Sep 29, 2004
371
0
Ok, so I am currently on a specialized demo 9 built up with a fox 40, mavic 823's, saint brakes, all 2007+ parts. I want something a little more maneuverable, lighter (my frame is 13.5lbs after all), a lower bb height, and I already appreciate the 63 deg head angle. I want a full on race machine. I will be doing very very little freeriding, 95% race type terrain and race weekends this coming season.

Background (OPTIONAL, skip if you just want to answer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Last season I did a lot of freeriding, but towards the end of the season I went to some GES races and was inspired to start racing. I then went to diablo at the end of the season for the first time since the beginning of the season and was riding every trail so much faster. I already am beginning to train for next season, and the only thing I want to possibly hold me back is my own skill. If I can throw my physical weakness and bad stamina out the window, and get a real race machine, I can focus on just getting faster and more skilled.

Now I am not super super fast or really slow. I want to move to cat 1 soon. But I intend to keep this frame, whichever frame I get, for AT LEAST 2 seasons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Important Part:
Here is where I need your input. Give me a real life experience on one of these bikes, an "e-speculation", or anything that can help me narrow it down. I want to hear if you've known people that have had problems with these frames too, or even what your friends say about them. All info will help.

ALSO, answer as if all the frames cost an equal amount. All the frames cost $2,000. If I have to spend extra to get something I am happy with, I will do it willingly.

The three bikes are:
Transition TR450.-Been told transitions CS is awesome, bike looks promising, adjustability.
Commencal Supreme year 2009+- DH-Proven, like the adjustability.
Canfield Jedi-Small rider based company, nice guys it would seem, like the rearward movement, but not the head angle (I am not as skilled and put my wheel where it should not be sometimes).

Thanks guys.
SPAM; have you considered a 08' Turner DHR I have a Med for sale.see classifieds. I fits your discription of what you're looking for.
 

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
The TR450 seem like they're gonna be the Evil Revolt of 2010. Definitely a frame with a huge list of riders trying to get on one. The frame rides really well from my brief run on one that was too big for me and everyone I know who's ridden one seems to be pretty stoked on it. I have been consistantly beat by guys on TR-450's this year so I know it's fast! If I explode my 951, the TR450 would definitely be on my shortlist.

Those Commencals sure do ride sweet. Really flickable but can plow with the best of 'em, and for what its worth, I personally haven't seen a broken 2009 commencal. I'm sure some have cracked, but it's not as common as some of these guys are making it out to be.

The Jedi's chain growth probably gobbles rocks really well, but i doubt it can snap turns like a more traditional suspension design. They're also short wheelbase/steep HA bikes. I might be off on that E-speculation, but that's what I've gathered from seeing them in action!

The Commencal def has the higher pivot point and the longer CS and WB, which means that if you really want to get aggro and kill some ****, I'd bet the Commie is faster. The TR450 can definitely hang, but seems to be a more agile bike that is probably more fun for most of the riding that most people do - like bike parks, jumps, berms, etc. The TR450 I rode was too big for me, but still felt quicker than the Commie that was bordering on too small for me.

The TR450 will have way better resale (more current frame design) if you decide you hate it afterall!
 
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Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
I've ridden a lot of DH bikes, and the commencal supreme is one of the best, most racey bikes I have ever had the pleasure to ride. Great geometry and it accelerates like a rocket. It doesn't get hung up on things and bleed momentum like many other bikes do.
 

AngryBeaver

Chimp
Oct 4, 2009
44
0
Whistler Baby!
Hey buddy

I had a 09 commi, and unfortunately I did crack it! However, It has been warranted and the replacement is certainly better quality! few nice new touches too. the paint is much better than previously too if your bothered by that.
Commencal have changed factories from last year. I think they had the piss taken out of them a bit, but, I dont think they had much of a QC team either, which they now have in their new factory as well as new heat treating facilities.

To be honest, I am selling the warranted frame but only due to the shop team adding another new brand for 2010, so we will be riding them instead. Hopwever, If I dont sell the frame, I wont be disappointed really as I loved it! And the colour is amazing! Photos dont do it justice!


Greg
 

cowman

Monkey
Oct 17, 2004
227
2
Seattle, WA
I have an 09 commencal and its dope. As transcend said, it just wants to go faster in every section. It accelerates through rock gardens like I've not experienced on any other bike. It corners on rails. Its a crazy feeling, you can lean this bike so far over to the point that you think it might not come back but then it just pops out of corners with a ton of speed. Thats the only way I can think to explain it. Also, it can plow if you need but then you can place it and be picky with line choices and it is super responsive.
 

kOlsen

Monkey
Dec 23, 2007
345
0
Norway, Scandinavia
I just plowed through this thread, so this might have been mentioned.

Commencal (or CommenCrack if you like) has changed they're "frame supplier" for 2010. So the cracks could be gone!
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
Hey buddy

I had a 09 commi, and unfortunately I did crack it! However, It has been warranted and the replacement is certainly better quality! few nice new touches too. the paint is much better than previously too if your bothered by that.
Commencal have changed factories from last year. I think they had the piss taken out of them a bit, but, I dont think they had much of a QC team either, which they now have in their new factory as well as new heat treating facilities.

To be honest, I am selling the warranted frame but only due to the shop team adding another new brand for 2010, so we will be riding them instead. Hopwever, If I dont sell the frame, I wont be disappointed really as I loved it! And the colour is amazing! Photos dont do it justice!


Greg
Meh... where did it crack? How long did you have it for? See with my luck (and weight, aka longer fatigue time to break something I bet), it would crack 2 years and 2 months after I have it.

Thanks for all the input everyone! Made me a lot more confident if I do get the commencal. I don't know yet, but I have to jump soon if I want to get this deal. But I sent in something for grassroots sponsorship to transition. I kind of doubt that Cat 2 wins will really propel me to a sponsorship, but I emphasized on how much I learned last season and how hard I am beggining to train.
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
Hey buddy

I had a 09 commi, and unfortunately I did crack it! However, It has been warranted and the replacement is certainly better quality! few nice new touches too. the paint is much better than previously too if your bothered by that.
Commencal have changed factories from last year. I think they had the piss taken out of them a bit, but, I dont think they had much of a QC team either, which they now have in their new factory as well as new heat treating facilities.

To be honest, I am selling the warranted frame but only due to the shop team adding another new brand for 2010, so we will be riding them instead. Hopwever, If I dont sell the frame, I wont be disappointed really as I loved it! And the colour is amazing! Photos dont do it justice!


Greg
Meh... where did it crack? How long did you have it for? See with my luck (and weight, aka longer fatigue time to break something I bet), it would crack 2 years and 2 months after I have it.

Thanks for all the input everyone! Made me a lot more confident if I do get the commencal. I don't know yet, but I have to jump soon if I want to get this deal. But I sent in something for grassroots sponsorship to transition. I kind of doubt that Cat 2 wins will really propel me to a sponsorship, but I emphasized on how much I learned last season and how hard I am beggining to train. The only problem is I have to wait until AT LEAST the 23rd (1 day after registration closes), so I won't know for a while, but I think I would rather ride a tr450. Good company, good customer service, rider owned, have their bikes dialed.
 

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
To the poster who says jedis dont corner, highly disagree, went UNDEFEATED in slalom on it. (against 4x bikes as well)

Watch this for ripping corners-not mine

 

cableguy

Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
463
1
Southern California
I have a Jedi, and obviously like it a lot. And everyone who has tried mine feels the same way too. Having said all that, I demoed a Commencal, and was pleasantly surprised how good it rode, considering that it is a single pivot bike. One thing that would worry me is the brake jack/squat, but I didn't really notice it that much on the bike. Demo both if you can.
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
Wow, this is outrageous!
Yes, that is... Hmm something to consider. I might have found a good deal on a 2010 as well (better control quality, etc). I guess I will have to see what happens here.

Also, try not to get this thread locked dirt jersey people (excluding demo 9 cause he was trying to contribute).
 

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver
with all the commencal cracking stories I would stay away from the supreme.
Me and my teammate have been on them all year, no issues at all. Mine was a demo even, I had to replace the bearings and after that, zero issues. I also have a Meta 6 that needed the linkage to be greased (it was creaking when I first got it), now its silent.

We both race CAT 2, next year I'm going to CAT 1. For reference I'm 200 pounds, no gear. Neither of us are getting a new bike next year. I just rebuilt the entire bike for winter maintenance and I saw nothing wrong.

I've ridden (not parking lot crap but runs at Sol Vista) a 303, M6, Giant Faith, Sunday, Demo 8, Intense Uzzi, Astrix Huckster and a Commencal Supreme DH. The great thing about Sol Vista is you can hit the same race level run 15+ times in the same day. I always swap with guys to check out bikes, it works best when we're the same weight. Most of the bikes I rode had the right spring rate, some were a medium though where I prefer a large.

My ranking...the M6 is the best (and the two different ones I rode where mediums). Sorry kids but that thing is long, low, pedals decent and jumps decent. My next would be a 3 way (giggidy) tie between the 303, Sunday and Commencal. All 3 are great bikes and its preference at that point.

Pedaling=Sunday
Rock gardens = 303
Jumping/cornering = Commencal

*Note, the 303 I rode was NOT the 303RDH but the 2008 version. I haven't had time on my friend's 303RDH yet.
 
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Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
If you're thinking of the Jedi, you should consider a Karpiel Disco. The only thing is max HA is 65*, but if you use a shorter 8 3/4 x 2 3/4 shock, you'll get the HA you're looking for.
 

Tayrob

Monkey
Jan 3, 2008
105
0
I'm currently on a '09 Commencal Supreme DH and have been for about 4 months.
I love it.So far the best feeling bike i've ever owned (owned a 1st gen V10,Ventana El Cuervo,'08 DHR,and many more.)The suspension feels lovely,quite plush in the begining of the stroke with a noticable ramp-up towards the end.Feels pretty damn bottomless to me.It felt even better once I took out the DHX and popped in an Elka.

Geo's spot on,too.I've got the headtube fully raked(64*)and with a '09 Boxxer team and 2.5'' WTB Dissents the BB sits right around 14'',i'm also running the wheel slammed in the drop outs,which yields a 46'' wheel base(i'm on the small/medium).

To sum it up,I love the damn thing.Perfect feeling bike for my tastes.
Couple of things to keep in mind though...the frame is pretty hefty.With the headtube sleeve,King headset,rear axle,Thomson post,and DHX with a 600 pound steel spring it was slightly over 13 pounds.The pivots will come loose.Alot.Locktite all of them(espically the one that's hiding in the linkage,down by the BB.)and keep them tight.After about 8-10 full days on my bike they started to tighten up.Also,the bike came with a QR seat clamp...not a big deal,swapped it out,but it just bothers me that a full on DH race frame comes with that.

Anymore questions feel free to ask.
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
I'm currently on a '09 Commencal Supreme DH and have been for about 4 months.
I love it.So far the best feeling bike i've ever owned (owned a 1st gen V10,Ventana El Cuervo,'08 DHR,and many more.)The suspension feels lovely,quite plush in the begining of the stroke with a noticable ramp-up towards the end.Feels pretty damn bottomless to me.It felt even better once I took out the DHX and popped in an Elka.

Geo's spot on,too.I've got the headtube fully raked(64*)and with a '09 Boxxer team and 2.5'' WTB Dissents the BB sits right around 14'',i'm also running the wheel slammed in the drop outs,which yields a 46'' wheel base(i'm on the small/medium).

To sum it up,I love the damn thing.Perfect feeling bike for my tastes.
Couple of things to keep in mind though...the frame is pretty hefty.With the headtube sleeve,King headset,rear axle,Thomson post,and DHX with a 600 pound steel spring it was slightly over 13 pounds.The pivots will come loose.Alot.Locktite all of them(espically the one that's hiding in the linkage,down by the BB.)and keep them tight.After about 8-10 full days on my bike they started to tighten up.Also,the bike came with a QR seat clamp...not a big deal,swapped it out,but it just bothers me that a full on DH race frame comes with that.

Anymore questions feel free to ask.
I have an elka on my demo 9 right now. Do you or does anyone know how an elka is comparable to a fox RC4? Thanks for all that help by the way! I might be purchasing one soon. I figured it is only a few hundred more than a TR450, I would have to wait to get a TR450 too. And if I like it, it would be worth it anyways. I found a deal on a 2010 one too. We'll see if I can work things out with the seller to go a bit lower.
 

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
you flame me on every thread about not riding, yet have u ever ridden a bike? can you ride a bike? do u race? sounds to me like your an E rider

http://diablofreeridepark.com/diablogravityseries09.html
Get a plane ticket from your Trust Fund and fly out here next season and I'll show you how much I ride and you can judge my talents for yourself. I'm not afraid of you seeing me actually ride a bike, you might even learn something!

The "flaming" is mild teasing, you know. Does it really injure your self-confidence to read posts by people teasing you for constantly offering e-proof on your hot stable of bikes? Are you really trying to convince me that you're unaware of the phenomenon of e-riders with multiple expensive bikes they rarely (if ever) ride?

You're lucky this isn't MTBR from 10 years ago. Pete Fagerlin would have had a field day with you.
 
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Tayrob

Monkey
Jan 3, 2008
105
0
Actually,my good friend has the same exact frame,except he popped out the DHX and put in a RC4.Only differences I can notice are my bike rides slightly higher in the travel.Also,his shock took a bit more tinkering time then mine.
 

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,886
0
Colorado
The Commencal is quite simply my favorite DH bike I have ever raced, no bs. That list includes Giant DH, 05 V10, Norco DH, Socom, Blindside, 09 V10, and finally the Commencal. Set in the slackest ht setting and with long stay position, it is the most confidence inspiring bike I have ever ridden. I ride for the Sol Vista team, but I am not just sponsor touting here. As far as the cracking, well, everyone on our team encountered the cracks that other people were seeing. However, at the end of the year we chemically stripped a few of the frames to get rid of that very brittle paint, and all of the apparent cracks on the frames we did were just in the paint. Of course this is a PITA, because you won't know if it is in fact just in the paint or not when looking at it. You could always buy one of my teammates stripped bikes when they sell them, and see for yourself. If you are buying a secondhand bike it wont have a warranty anyway, so you might as well strip so you will know for sure. I suspect that in reality, very few of the frames have actually been broken, Commencal could have saved themselves a lot of money on replacements with better paint. Also, the 2010 models use a completely different paint, which should solve the problem.