Quantcast

help me choose a trail bike: Giant Reign 0 vs. Specialized Enduro SL Expert

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by dexterq20, Mar 4, 2008.

  1. dexterq20

    dexterq20 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 1
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,442
    Location:
    NorCal
    Time for me to get a bike I can pedal. I've narrowed it down to the Giant Reign 0 and the Specialized Enduro SL Expert (aluminum frame, not carbon), both with pretty much custom specs.

    I have ridden DH for the past four years, but have never owned a trail/all-mountain bike. I'm 6'1", 210 lbs, and ride lots of rocky, rough trails. I'm also used to big, heavy, squishy, and slack DH bikes.

    On the Reign, I'd be swapping the fork for a 36 Talas, which will give it about a 68 degree head angle (as opposed to 69 degrees with the stock fork).

    I would buy the Specialized as a frame/fork and then build it up from there.

    The Reign will initially cost me about $800 more than the Enduro SL out of pocket, but hopefully I'd be able to sell all of the parts that I swap out, which would then make it about $400 less than the Enduro SL.

    The Enduro SL would be simpler because I wouldn't have to swap a ton of parts, but I'm still not 100% confident in the Specialized forks and shocks (although they come with a 5-year warranty now).

    From what I've found online and in some magazines, the Reign has gotten some pretty stellar reviews, where the Enduro SL has not been as widely praised.

    I have no clue which bike would be lighter, but I'm looking to get something around 30lbs.

    Please share any thoughts, suggestions, and experiences with either bike. Thanks.



     
    #1 -   Mar 4, 2008

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Bleedmore, Murderland
    I've ridden both and I enjoy the Enduro SL much more. It's a DH rider's XC rig.
     
    #2 -   Mar 4, 2008
  3. neverwalk

    neverwalk Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    I LOVE Maestro. Pedals SO much better than FSR. Even with platform valving in the FSR. I've had a Reign for 2 1/2 years, and just got a Glory.
    Prior to that had a Specialized s-works enduro, before that, also had a Specialized Big Hit, and before that an Intense Tracer, so I'm VERY familiar with FSR, and Maestro. The Enduro is a sweet ride, I just think the Giants pedal more efficiently when you have to point them uphill. And they rip when descending.
     
    #3 -   Mar 4, 2008
  4. Biffff

    Biffff Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    914
    Reign all the way. I wouldn't touch an Enduro for many reasons: fork, shock, too XC, and I personally am not a fan of the big S.
     
    #4 -   Mar 4, 2008
  5. dexterq20

    dexterq20 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 1
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,442
    Location:
    NorCal
    Yeah, a 67 degree head angle and a thru-axle fork are way too XC, especially compared to the Reign, which comes stock with a 69 degree head angle and a 140mm travel qr fork. :rolleyes:

    I should have specified when I started the thread: EDUCATED and INFORMED responses only please.
     
    #5 -   Mar 4, 2008
  6. Biffff

    Biffff Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    914
    Sounds like you have your mind made up. I wont feel to bad for ya when your shock blows, and your fork takes crap after a couple rides.

    Cheers to that.
     
    #6 -   Mar 4, 2008
  7. WSR Crash

    WSR Crash Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Messages:
    57
    Location:
    White Pine, Tn
    I have an enduro sl expert and really do like the way it pedals.
    The shock has been replaced but it was an 07 model.
    I don't think you could go wrong with either.
     
    #7 -   Mar 4, 2008
  8. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

    Rep/Likes:
    161 / 1,527
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    21,781
    Location:
    In my pants
    Oh Noes!!

    Mine lasted all of last summer without crapping after a couple of rides. Can I cry on your shoulder when it happens?

    How bout my buddy?

    http://kidwoo.com/images/boots/endurolittleleague.wmv

    He got his about 3 months before I got mine.

    He only rides his on bike paths though
     
    #8 -   Mar 4, 2008
  9. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

    Rep/Likes:
    161 / 1,527
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    21,781
    Location:
    In my pants
    Well it sounds like you're head's on straight at least. :D This really is like a dher's trail bike.

    I haven't spent any serious time on a reign but they do look like solid rides. If the bb is low enough you could toss a longer fork on there for more travel and a slacker ha to get closer to the SL

    That said, I've never been as enthralled with a trail bike as I am with the SL. It's slack, low, pretty damn stiff and pedals better than any other design specialized has made. The fact that the stumpjumpers changed to match the SL design should say something. Little speccy loves their stumpjumper moniker.

    The fork is really damn good. It's stiff, light and if you stay off the compression damping, rides pretty plush. I don't think it's any better than a 36 float, but it's not any worse. And you've got some geo adjustment with the dual crown.

    I couldn't stand the rear shock though. There's no way to make that thing plush without basically wearing it out. Be prepared to switch that out right off the bat if you want a plush ride. My buddy in that vid^ rode his all summer and around november it got a lot smoother. I wasn't willing to wait though and got an rp3. With that shock, it's tits.
     
    #9 -   Mar 4, 2008
  10. dexter

    dexter Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 29
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2001
    Messages:
    2,942
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    im in the same boat, but after looking at the reign and riding it f that. it feels like your on a big comfort bike. too tall of a front end, ugly as sin, headtube is HUGE. the sl is dirty, and if you mess up the suspension components they overnight you new ones.
     
  11. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Bleedmore, Murderland
    Kidwoo, You can cry on my shoulder. And from that video the Enduro is obviously too XC like Biffff said. :crazy:

    Like I said if you are a DH/FR rider at heart and you're looking at both these bikes you will have much more fun and enjoy the feeling of the Enduro more. Don't get me wrong both are fantastic bikes and I don't think you could go wrong. But the Reign is an overgrown XC bike where as the Enduro is a slimmed down DH sled.
     
  12. dexterq20

    dexterq20 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 1
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2003
    Messages:
    3,442
    Location:
    NorCal
    Realistically I'm not gonna be able to afford to swap the shock. Hasn't the damping been re-worked on all the Specialized forks and shocks for 2008 though?


    Good call on the headtube... just looked up the geo, and the headtube is 6.5" long! Holy crap! Hmmm...


    Very interesting analogy. Thanks.


    Thanks for all the good feedback. Keep it coming!
     
  13. DirtyMike

    DirtyMike Turbo Fluffer

    Rep/Likes:
    59 / 709
    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    14,153
    Location:
    My own world inside my head
    Hmmmmm, I havent had any real time on either bike, but I do sell both. And I sell more of teh specialized than the reigns, and funny how it turns out I end up calling giant for warranty parts ALOT more than for Specialized. I have two reaigns in the back currently, both waiting for new rear shocks, I have yet to have an enduro come back with a blown shock. I really like the analogy of teh Sp Ed being a slimmed down DH bike, great way to describe the bike.
     
  14. Defenestrated

    Defenestrated Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2007
    Messages:
    1,657
    Location:
    Earth
    I know right...
     
  15. mattmatt86

    mattmatt86 Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 10
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2005
    Messages:
    5,390
    Location:
    Bleedmore, Murderland
    As far as replacing the Shock goes, I've ridden the piss out of my shop's 08 Expert SL. I'm 180 and a DH rider at heart so I'm not light on the bike at all. I've done wall rides and 6+ foot drops on it and I haven't had a single problem with either the fork or shock.
     
  16. neverwalk

    neverwalk Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    I gotta jump back in here. The guys I ride with have more specialized than Giants. That being said, I have beat the snot out of my Reign. I put a 36 vanilla on it, that slacked out the head angle a bit, so it's not stock.... and it has seen everything from 25 mile singletracks in VT to 10-12 foot drops at Diablo, to innumerable 5-6 foot drops to flat at my local torture ground of Trumbull CT. I've had to replace the bearings in the linkages once. Haven't done a single other "repair" that wasn't routine maintenance in 2 years. The two other guys that have Giants have had zero issues. I can't speak to the shop owner who posted about blown shocks, but I've never seen it...

    Out of the crew with the spec's, one guy has had his seat stays replaced 3 times. another twice, and two other guys once each. Two have had to send back their rear shocks from being "stuck-down", one guy twice. On my Enduro, I never got more than 4-6 months out of the rear shock bushings before they developed major slop. Very easy to fix, but it happens to every one.

    They ride differently, both ride well. The Enduro is a beautiful bike, with a tried and true design. It does not climb spectacularly well. When guys are saying that the Reign is an overgrown XC bike, I feel it's being sold short. It's way more capable than that. It'll climb some silly steep terrain, then tear it up on the way back down.
     
  17. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

    Rep/Likes:
    161 / 1,527
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    21,781
    Location:
    In my pants
    SEVEN just in your immediate sphere of influence?

    SLs or the older style?

    If it's the SLs, your crew probably accounts for like 98% of those things broken. You guys are core!! :D
     
  18. Rip

    Rip Mr. Excitement

    Rep/Likes:
    6 / 1
    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    7,348
    Location:
    Over there somewhere.
    The only issues that have been involved with the fork on the enduro sl's have been bad cartridges, which specialized has acknowledged and will quickly take care of. Plus they now put a 5 year warranty on their forks.
     
  19. Curler

    Curler Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2007
    Messages:
    70
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I have never ridden a Reign but i rode a SL and it was seriously the nicest handling, plushest bike ive ever ridden. Its my dream trail bike but my 2005 s-works stumpjumper fsr is just treating me too well to get rid of it.
     
  20. neverwalk

    neverwalk Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2007
    Messages:
    52
    Thanks I guess:twitch: but I don't think our guys are "core". We do ride hard techy New england rock strewn single track every ride, log rides/skinnies, drops, etc. We also annually hit Fruita/moab/Gooseberry, riding the techiest stuff we can find. So we are hard on bikes. We don't get shocked about stuff braking, 'cause it's not as if we are riding on bike paths, but we see a lot of it.

    These are ALL older styles, and if you know the bike, you know where they break, right at the weld on the caliper mount, left side seat stay. The braking forces not getting along with the heat treating/weld/mount/location. One was at the chain stay.
    By the way, as in prior posts, I actually really like Specialized. Still own an S-Works Enduro. 25 pounds, 5" front and rear. Great bike. But with out propedal, pedals like poo. Works everywhere, but the bob on climbing really sucks. Why do you think they've invested so much in "the Brain", propedal, proprietary shock designs etc.
     
  21. Biffff

    Biffff Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    914
    Man..tough crowd. Just sharing what I know from doing endless search's for the right trail bike for myself. I don't own either of the bikes in question, therefore I'm not biased towards one or the other. My shop sells both Giant and Specialized so I've had the opportunity to spin around on them. My statemnt on the SL being too XC comes from the multiple tests I've read stating the suspension has rather harsh and doesn't ride like 6" bike, rather more like a shorter travel rig.
    As for specialized sevice, I've had buddy's who have broken their big S weapons on welds and have to fight tooth and nail to get their frames warrantied. After 3 months they have gotten frames. I've had 1 week turn arounds on Giant frames.
    That being said I'm now ready for the "Pink Monkeys" to tear me a new one.

    Love life! Its the internet. relax.
     
  22. bdamschen

    bdamschen Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 36
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,319
    Location:
    Spreckels, CA
    Well I've ridden both in the parking lot, off at least a 6" curb as well as down a gravel alleyway therefore my thoughts count as well:

    The enduro is a much nicer bike that felt to me in my few minutes of riding it would be more fun geo wise. The reign did seem plush and solid, but still sort of awkward. Of course if money makes a difference with your choice, the reign is way cheaper.
     
  23. kidwoo

    kidwoo Celebrating No-Pants Day

    Rep/Likes:
    161 / 1,527
    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2003
    Messages:
    21,781
    Location:
    In my pants
    That's why I asked.

    When someone asks a question about a sunday, do you also give first hand experience from one of the old SGS bikes? ;)
     
  24. SlapheadMofo

    SlapheadMofo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    3 / 0
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2003
    Messages:
    448
    Location:
    Westminster MA
    Errrrrr....ahhhh....:busted:


    I've owned a few FSRs and been happy with the bikes and VERY happy with how well Spec has backed up their product. Giant also seems to back up their stuff well based on what I've seen with some of my buddys. One actually had the Giant for last season and never really dug it, and now has the SL and can't say enough about it. I'll see if I can point him over here w/ some firsthand 411. From talking to him about it, his impressions mirror what some of the others here are saying.
     
  25. sriracha

    sriracha Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    805
    have you considered a santa cruz nomad???
     
  26. Zark

    Zark Hey little girl, do you want some candy?

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 7
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Messages:
    6,257
    Location:
    Reno 911
    Ben works at a shop that carries Trek, Giant and Specialized.
    The Nomad ain't happening
     
  27. sriracha

    sriracha Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    496
    Location:
    805


    bicycle bob's?
     
  28. syadasti

    syadasti i heart mac

    Rep/Likes:
    64 / 291
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    12,859
    Location:
    VT
    Brand new Trek Remedy this year is another nice option - it has great geometry. Giant and Trek have better spec for the money than Specialized.

    Don't forget the Pitch, its basically a Enduro SL only it doesn't have adjustable geometry(slack only position) and it doesn't have the wonky Specialized shocks...

     
  29. Zark

    Zark Hey little girl, do you want some candy?

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 7
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Messages:
    6,257
    Location:
    Reno 911
    Ben hates the color of the Remedy 8 which would be perfect for him ;)
     
  30. syadasti

    syadasti i heart mac

    Rep/Likes:
    64 / 291
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    12,859
    Location:
    VT
    Another knock against the Nomad is SC let their original designer go and have a new guy that seem to be doing a lot better job. The v2 nomad will probably be a much better bike just like the new Blur LT, so now would not be a good time to get a Nomad:

    One of the reasons I like FSR/faux bar over high-pivot designs - I hate significant chain/wheelbase growth on trail bikes.
     
  31. TA..

    TA.. !

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    Bionics department
    Just reading this thread and seeing the comments between the two bikes and the fact youre talking about adding a 36 ta instead of the QR fox if you went with the Regin, I wonder if youre comparing the wrong Regin?

    Ive ridden the Regin X and its a great bike, I'd be comparing this with the Enduro SL esspecially if everyone who has the SL says its a mini DH, then the Regin X is definitley in this catagory but also very capable uphill and all day machine, again esspecially the air version [Regin XO]

    It would be my choice, and Ive ridden allot of boutique bikes but this thing kicks ass when setup.. And just because its an X don't let that fool you in the XO version it will fly, not sure of weight but its not heavy.

    I can't understand why there would be issues with support for components most are sourced OEM, e.g Shocks Forks are Fox so if theres an issue here it maybe supply via Giant but the product is Fox!
    So remember its easy to source alternative components for the Giant, though as KW says he put a RP3 on his SL.

    Before my accident, I was considering having this in the stable as a mini DH bike with a Boxxer WC lowered to 7in for pedally DH courses and a 66sl for regular trail and All mountain riding with a Roco Air in the rear..
    Oh for me too its the little things Giant knows how to cable route, very clean, Speccy has always peeved me about that lol.

    Just my 2c




     
  32. Biffff

    Biffff Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2006
    Messages:
    914
    Not being biased in this case means I don't own either of the 2 bikes mentioned. It doesn't mean I'm biased against specialized......ERRRR.....AHHHHHHH, just because I'm not a fan, it also means I wont defend Special-ED to the bitter end just because I own one. I have an opinion, it is what it is, love life!

    I like the Reign X0 idea. Its roughly four to five pounds heavier then an SL, but if its a mini DH bike your looking weight isn't the top priority.
     
  33. Acadian

    Acadian Born Again Newbie

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 2
    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2001
    Messages:
    717
    Location:
    Blah Blah and Blah
    in this industry I've quickly realized that if you keep waiting for the newest and greatest model - you'll never ride.

    just get what is available now and deal with the newest thing when it's actually "obtanium"!
     
  34. syadasti

    syadasti i heart mac

    Rep/Likes:
    64 / 291
    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    12,859
    Location:
    VT
    Well as Zark said, he doesn't work in a shop that carries SC. Plus I have a feeling the v2 Nomad will be out this year anyways...
     
  35. Zark

    Zark Hey little girl, do you want some candy?

    Rep/Likes:
    7 / 7
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Messages:
    6,257
    Location:
    Reno 911
    I've talked to Ben about the Reign XO and its just too heavy. He's looking for a trail bike, not a mini DH.
     
  36. TA..

    TA.. !

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2007
    Messages:
    228
    Location:
    Bionics department
    Here ya, interesting though! cause if he adds a 36 to the Regin non X
    theres another pound atleast, new wheel with TA hub another pound, change some comps on the XO would be cheaper and the bike would be lighter, e.g bars stem seatpost ! just food for thought and cheaper as well, then there's the SL option again.

    Personally I could hammer, before my broken neck a Regin XO all day no probs, but if he really wants an XC ride then the Regin imo would be more suitable than the SL it seems to me to be more bike than he wants and suits an experienced rider who can extract it potentail, often less is more! But who ever buys what they acutaly need right:busted:
     
  37. Bati

    Bati Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    May 8, 2003
    Messages:
    354
    Location:
    Santiago - Chile
    I've just switched my 05 Reign (w/Roco air) for a 06 Enduro Expert, same components (incl 55 ATA) on both.

    At my feeleing, Enduro pedals better than Reign, a little better seated on, and way better off the saddle, when sometimes Reign sucks. Also, Enduro feels more rigid at rear end and is lighter than Reign. Still don't try it in downhills, but Reign was very high at BB, almost a full inch than Enduro, so I can predict Enduro will be better again.

    I know new Reign is lighter, but should work the same way than olders. But how comparable is a '06 Enduro Expert v/s a new SL?... don't know
     
  38. gonefirefightin

    gonefirefightin free wieners

    Rep/Likes:
    27 / 104
    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2007
    Messages:
    6,700
    Location:
    Surrounded by Police in a hail of gunfire
    I have had my Enduro built up for about a month now, I have ridden the piss out of the reign in the past. I know both bikes very well.

    here is my educated advice

    the reign is heavy, way to heavy to keep up with 25 pound XC bikes on XC trails.

    my enduro is 29 pounds with a gravity dropper.


    I was skeptic about the shock and fork when I was considering the bike. i thought if the suspension components dont work out for me I can just put my own stuff on it. but after I found out who designed the suspesnsion i was sold when i dialed it and rode it.

    mike mcandrews designed the fork and shock with no hands tied by specialized. they are valved to work with each other. I can think of any shock/fork combo that is meant to valve together at the same rates. the rear shock and fork also has a spike/dump valve. it automatically adjusts your low speed compression to fit your riding style untill you hit a good bump or hit then it dumps and starts over.

    i have ridden alot of reigns and other giants and have yet to be impressed with attention to detail


     
  39. andres611

    andres611 Chimp

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    99
    I personally love the Enduro. I rode the crap out of my previous one and I just got a 2007 Enduro S-Works 2 weeks ago. I took it to Black Rock in OR and it was an awesome all around bike. It comes with the Talas 36, so you can lower the travel to go up-hill and then set up the full suspension to go down. It is at about 31 lbs. It climbs awesome and holds up really good going down doing drops and jumps.

    If you are interested send me a PM, I could get you a really good deal on a never ridden S-Works. It is not the SL, tho but I am sure you will fall in love with it.
     
  40. Tmeyer

    Tmeyer Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    5 / 1
    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2005
    Messages:
    586
    Location:
    SLC
    Gotta toss a vote in for the Reign X. I had an 05 when they first came out, but the high standover and inability to accept a piggy-back shock made me get rid of it after two seasons. I loved the Maestro but didn't like the Geo of the bike. I went to a Transition Preston and liked it but did not love it so finally this year I bought a Reign X frameset and sold the DHX 3.0 right away and replaced it with a Roco TST R coil and TI Spring. Running Juicy 7's, an 08 55 TST ETA, 5.1's on Onyx hubs, Sunline bar, Thomson post/4x stem, race face evolve XC cranks. I'm also running stans in the wheels with single-ply WTB stout 2.35 tires. Weighs in @ 33lbs, not bad for a Coil sprung trail bike. Don't get me wrong, this is no XC bike but it pedals really well and will climb steeps with no problems. the maestro IMO is some of the best pedaling suspension designs out there. I rode an Enduro SL for an hour or so last year and it was really light which I like but I got the feeling that the suspension was a bit harsh in the end stroke of its travel. Maybe some more adjusting would have solved it but I couldn't get my mind past it. I also felt the Reign had a stiffer rear end in some of the rocks.....

    Both are great bikes, but if your looking for something to go up and come down on I must vote for the Reign, it hauls on the descents...
    Mine: