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Help me understand the tour

crashing_sux

crashing_sux

Monkey
Jul 17, 2002
311
0
Vancouver, WA
Here it is, my first roadie post!

I'm trying to watch the tour but think I would get into it more if I understood some of the strategy. Are there any good websites that would explain aspects of the tour to a non-road biker?

Things I've wondered while watching the tour today.

1. Why is it when one guy finishes two bike lengths ahead of everyone else they all get the same time posted?

2. If they all get the same time how do they decide who wins? Who wins a stage? Who gets those fancy jerseys?

3. What are all of the jerseys and what do they mean? Can you win multiple jerseys in one stage?

4. Why do some riders break away early when they seem to always get caught later in the stage? Wouldn't this just make them more tired? Or are they hoping to not get caught?

5. Is the overall win based on time or points? If it's time or points do you end up with 50 guys tieing each other since they all finish in the same pack and get the same time?
 
LordOpie

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
I'm not remotely knowledgable compared to most here, but man, i'm so addicted. I love watching the subtleties, the tactics, the domestique shoving 8 bottles of fluids in his pockets, inside his jersey... the sweeping arcs of the peloton negotiating curves and obstacles, fvcking art in motion, booyah!

check out -- http://ww2.olntv.com/tdf04/

#2 The winner is the first across the line. The first three across the line get time bonuses. Like first gets 20 second bonus, 2nd gets 12 seconds, 3rd gets 8.

#3
Yellow jersey : Leader in the general time classification.

Green jersey : Leader in the general points classification.

Red polka dot jersey : Leader in the best climber classification.

White jersey : Leader in the youth general time classification.

I believe you can win all the jersey's, but you can only wear one, so the second place guy in the other categories will wear the one you don't want. If you get multiple, including yellow, you always wear the yellow.

#4 variety of reason, one could be the riders are looking to pick up points from the various bonus sections thru-out the course.
 
Silver

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,840
1
Orange County, CA
#1:

The rationale is that it's safer to give all the riders in the same bunch the same time in order to avoid having everyone sprint for the line at the end of every stage. You can see the carnage a mass sprint can have, and that's with only 3 or 4 guys actually going for the win. If the whole peloton sprinted every flat stage, you'd have more crashes.
 
R

rockracing

Monkey
Jul 22, 2002
427
0
Cape Town, South Africa
#4: It was suicide break away specialist (apt name don't ya think ?) Jacky Durand who said that 1 in 25 break aways succeed an thats why he goes for them....

#5: oveall winner (yellow jesey) based on time....

the more you know, the more you enjoy it !
 
C

cbcbcbcb

Chimp
Dec 3, 2003
11
0
San Diego
#4 Yes, sometimes, very rarely, the breakaway is never caught and takes the stage along with all the bonus points. Also, being in a breakaway carries its own prestige and exposure for the team sponsor, however brief.

#5 The General Classification (yellow jersey and overall winner) is by total time. The strongest riders with the strongest teams gain huge amounts of time in time trials and mountain stages, but usually little if any in flat stages.

The points leader (green jersey) is by points.
 
cliffster5

cliffster5

In dog years I'm dead
Aug 23, 2001
331
1
Salinas, CA
One other thing to throw into the mix is elimination time (really comes into play in the mountains). The riders at the back of the race have to finish within 10% of the time set by the stage winner. In the mountains there is usually a huge clump of domestiques who band together after their work for the day is done and ride as a unit to the finish with a very precise sense of when they need to cross the finish line. On really harsh mountain stages with many many riders falling outside the time limit, the tour organizers will often allow a bending of rules if for nothing else to have enough guys showing up on the line the next day. Oh yeah, one other reason teams will send a break away guy up the road is to have some help in the form of that rider later in the stage when the team leader bridges up. CSC is particularly good at this strategy and I'm sure we'll see it before this Tour is completed. Hey Opie, ditto your comments about art in motion, especially the TTT. Dang that is bee-u-tee-ful!!!
 
Wumpus

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,161
153
Six Shooter Junction
One more reason to have a guy in the break is that it takes pressure off that team to chase down the break forcing other teams to expend the energy to chase.
 
crashing_sux

crashing_sux

Monkey
Jul 17, 2002
311
0
Vancouver, WA
I figured out one of the reasons I couldn't tell if they were using time or points is that they are using a BS system they call time but it's really closer to points. I noticed that in the time trials today even though US Postal finished over a minute ahead of the next guy they called it 20 seconds ahead. That's not time, I've checked, I have a watch.

When the winners time is x and the second place time is x-20 instead of their real time that sure as hell sounds a lot more like a points system then any kind of time I've heard of. Then there are all of the misc time bonuses, more points.
 
splat

splat

Nam I am
Apr 27, 2002
14,751
318
Well Maybe Windows is Bearable ! Unix Rules !
crashing_sux said:
Here it is, my first roadie post!

4. Why do some riders break away early when they seem to always get caught later in the stage? Wouldn't this just make them more tired? Or are they hoping to not get caught?
Click to expand...
Look at today ! they Broke away , did not get caught, and now they get the yellow jersey , sometimes it works. . that is why they do it.
 
R

rockracing

Monkey
Jul 22, 2002
427
0
Cape Town, South Africa
yeah, the little guys knew armstrong didn't want to kep the jersey, so they would let a break away get a good lead, I'm glad when they make it, it was a great finish, more exciting than a bunch sprint imho.
 
Wumpus

Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,161
153
Six Shooter Junction
crashing_sux said:
I figured out one of the reasons I couldn't tell if they were using time or points is that they are using a BS system they call time but it's really closer to points. I noticed that in the time trials today even though US Postal finished over a minute ahead of the next guy they called it 20 seconds ahead. That's not time, I've checked, I have a watch.

When the winners time is x and the second place time is x-20 instead of their real time that sure as hell sounds a lot more like a points system then any kind of time I've heard of. Then there are all of the misc time bonuses, more points.
Click to expand...

The yellow jersey, white jersey(youngster) and GC is based on time. There is a team competition that is time based. The TTT is the only stage that they award 'time bonuses'(or that is what they call them).

The green(points) and climbing(polka dot) jersey are points related. There are time bonuses for the intermediate and final sprints, but none for the climbing points.
 
O

oldfart

Turbo Monkey
Jul 5, 2001
1,206
24
North Van
Actually its not 10% of the winners time. It varies depending on the difficulty of the stage, the speed of the stage and there are always special provisions made by the race jury. I recall one stage, might have been in the Giro where the gruppeto was outside the time limit but the race jury I guess did not want to eliminate something like 35 riders.

I found the Tour de France race rules the other day and printed them, but they're at home. I didn't read the time limit rules in detail as they were pretty complex. No doubt the director sportifs will be calculating things carefully in certain stages to ensure dropped riders make the time cuts.
 
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