[Sandwich]

So the "FS to HT" thread got me thinking, how can I make my HT suck less?

I basically have this bike: http://www.epinions.com/bike-Bicycles-All-45470-Schwinn_Homegrown__2000

...with almost no upgrades besides an XTR rear derailleur and a nice saddle.

What can I do to make the bike feel more solid, without turning to FR parts? The LX cranks are octalink/hollowtech and outside of a new-era HT2 crank, I doubt I'm going to find stiffer. The wheels are an obvious area for improvement, but it's a challenge finding a non-disk compatible rim wheelset. I can get adapters for the goofy 22mm disk mount, so that's not a huge concern anymore, but I'm not dying to upgrade to disks...the Vs work OK for what I do right now.

 

[kazlx]

What fork are you running? I think the fork makes a huge difference on hardtails. Also, like you pointed out, rims would make a big difference. I think the XT cranks are perfectly good for that setup. Maybe a wider bar would give a little better feel?

 

[greengreer]

+1, upgrading the fork can make a huge difference on how a hardtail rides. I had a crappy tora 302 on a hardtail and went to a motion control recon- world of difference. I couldn't believe how much better it rode.
Past that, a solid set of wheels can transform the bike too. Maybe build some up that have disc hubs but rims that have a brake track, so if you do decide to go to discs or want to put them on another bike you are set...

 

[rockarollah]

I'd go riser bars and a stiff 4-bolt stem. And forks have come a loooong way since the Manitou SX-R - a Fox or a RS Recon would help a lot. (Went from a Manitou SX to a Fox Float 100RL on my '99 Stumpjumper, huge difference.)

Higher-volume tires too? My old hardtail felt way different, and pretty sweet, with 2.3" Nokian NBX's. Go for something between 2.1"-2.3" and your bike will feel burlier and more fun.

 

[Sandwich]

You know, the fork is one of the few areas that I really haven't had a problem with. It's not rock solid like 66 or whatever, but it seems adequately stiff and the damping seems to go up and down like I'd expect or ask it to.

I'll definitely continue to look into wheels...I had narrow semi-slicks on there before, so I think some wide trail tires might liven it up. The bike just feels disconnected as it sits, sketchy might be a word for it, as compared to "planted".

 

[MMcG]

I don't know how much you want to spend. But if you can get that Hayes disc mount and have Hydros here's what I'd do to your Homegrown:
1. Get the Disc Brakes
2. Get an 80mm Fox fork or an X-Fusion Velvet (now called the Veour)
3. Get a set of 650b wheels with Pacenti Quasi-moto tires (they'll fit)

Rock on.

 

[JRogers]

I wouldn't bother with cranks unless you find a problem with what you have now.

I think tires would be the biggest area of improvement. I had some super-light XC tires on my hardtail (Python Airlight 2.0s...I think I won them in the monthly contest here). Upgrading to wider tires made a huge improvement in traction, ride and control on the trail. I run Michelins, 2.15 rear and 2.2 front. They are high volume and have a good size tread for the marked size- taller and wider is better for hardtails. Just make sure that if you buy wider tires you know they will clear your frame and V-brakes. Mine do slide in ok, but sometimes they take a bit more effort than a 2.1 or smaller would in order to get past the brakes.

Wider bars might make some difference, but I don't think you need to go huge (like over 27") in that area to feel an improvement.

Wheels would be a good place to save some weight. If you look on ebay and those places, there's fewer options for quality rim brake wheelsets, but the good thing is that if you buy something a few years old it will be really cheap. Something like this, maybe? http://cgi.ebay.com/MAVIC-X-517-XTR-wheelset_W0QQitemZ230446136701QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a7a8fd7d#ht_500wt_1182

 

[Sandwich]

WTF? I just searched and didn't come up with didly. Kudos to you and your searchnastiness.

I already have some wider, titec XC rise bars on there...they're not huge, but probably 26" and low rise...they feel perfect and are one of the few things I really like on the bike. I have a few shorter stems which I'll throw on and see if that brings me more centered.

I'll throw my trailbeers on there and see how they hold up, they're like a 2.3 or so. I'm sure they'll fit- I have a nokian 2.6" gazzi on the rear right now that I used for a snow ride.

 

[JRogers]

Damn, you can fit a 2.6 in there? Does it fit through the brakes without deflating? Putting the rear wheel in my bike is a PITA....I have to give it one good knock to get it past the brakes and for some stupid reason the qr doesn't clear the rear mech...so I have to take out the skewer entirey to get the wheel off.

 

[JRogers]

A few more ideas. Not as good as the other one, but not bad options (though the radial lacing on the first one might not be a good idea...)

http://cgi.ebay.com/Chris-King-Bontrager-Race-Lite-front-wheel_W0QQitemZ290410959285QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item439dd791b5#ht_500wt_1182

http://cgi.ebay.com/XTR-M950-Hub-WTB-Laser-Bam-Rim-Rear-Wheel_W0QQitemZ170454828457QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item27afe645a9#ht_1154wt_1165

http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-XTR-Tioga-Wheelset-M950-Rim-V-Brake-Wheels_W0QQitemZ190378824046QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCycling_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2c5376516e#ht_2408wt_1165

 

[MMcG]

Some visuals to add to what I wrote up above:

I bet it would make your Homegrown more "stable" feeling yet also let it "roll" even faster than with 26" wheels.

 

[Sandwich]

Damn, you can fit a 2.6 in there? Does it fit through the brakes without deflating? Putting the rear wheel in my bike is a PITA....I have to give it one good knock to get it past the brakes and for some stupid reason the qr doesn't clear the rear mech...so I have to take out the skewer entirey to get the wheel off.

Yeah, it was a bit of an experiment as I wanted to run the widest tire I had for what I thought was hardpacked snow...turned out to be loose/slush and my narrowest tires would have been much better, and lighter...but it slid right up there. I think I had to inflate it once it was through the brake pads, but it wasn't as much of a struggle as it should have been. talk about mud clearance.

Some visuals to add to what I wrote up above:

I bet it would make your Homegrown more "stable" feeling yet also let it "roll" even faster than with 26" wheels.

nice ride. I wouldn't mind checking out 650bs, I probably have room for them, but it looks like wheels are expensive. Was that frame 650b specific, or converted?

 

[Sandwich]

Anybody know if I can strip a set of rims to make them rim brake compatible? Found a set of Ringle SUV wheels that might bring er up to speed.

 

[JRogers]

SUV's have Rhyno XL rims with Ringle hubs, yeah? Those will likely be heavier and less reliable (at least as far as hubs) than what you have. The specs I see online put the set around 2300 grams. That is damn heavy for xc wheels.

Plus, the rims are anodized, so I don't think there is an easy way to fix that for rim brakes.

 

[Sandwich]

eh, alright. Those Tiogas are black sidewall as well, same deal. I had a set....in fact, that's a really weird wheelset being that it's non-machined and non-disk.

 

[MMcG]

Yeah, it was a bit of an experiment as I wanted to run the widest tire I had for what I thought was hardpacked snow...turned out to be loose/slush and my narrowest tires would have been much better, and lighter...but it slid right up there. I think I had to inflate it once it was through the brake pads, but it wasn't as much of a struggle as it should have been. talk about mud clearance.



nice ride. I wouldn't mind checking out 650bs, I probably have room for them, but it looks like wheels are expensive. Was that frame 650b specific, or converted?

That's a 2001 Homegrown -the guy just added the wheels.

I got a set of 650b wheels from Chad at Red Barn Bikes out in Montana - for $200.00 or so.

So they aren't super expensive.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[Sandwich]

Didn't recognize it without the stickers...and he has the "factory" frame that has a forged seat and chainstay yoke...mine are just welded toobz.

Am debating keeping the HT or trying to grab something FS...maybe a homegrown lawwill....hmmmm

 

[MMcG]

I saw a Medium 99 FourBanger on mtbr.com classifieds the other day.

I think I've seen 650bs in a Schwinn Moab of your era - so it might still fit your frame too.

 

[MMcG]

Any further thoughts or changes Sandwich?

 

[Sandwich]

ordered up a 22mm disk caliper and hayes nine lever. I'll round up the rest of the parts to get a full disk brake setup (with matching nine front) eventually. Wheels are my number one. The deore hub has awful engagement and I can backspin my cranks freely...one of the biggest annoyances. I've had trouble finding a decent set of wheels for what I think is a reasonable price. I hear really bad things about low-end mavics, so I keep looking...but since hub engagement is an issue for me, it's not easy picking cheap wheels.

I have a set of velocity cliffhangers hanging around, which are pretty heavy but might work for me since I'm sitting fatty at about 200 lbs...so stiffer wheels might be part of what i'm looking for.

There are a few XC forks out there that seem appropriate, but I really don't mind the SXR. Might be a little heavy, but it sucks up the moguls OK, and it has a post mount disk brake....

I've toyed with buying and FS bike, particularly a homegrown 4banger...but there are a host of issues with that bike, and it's tough to justify paying 400$ on a 10 year old unsupported frame with proprietary shock....and the honest truth is there is a lot that "needs" upgrading on the frame, so I debate whether it would be better to keep it as is and start fresh with a new project...nobody's going to buy a set of deore/221 wheels or LX cranks.