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ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
This one's going to be ugly. BART Po are refusing to make any statements until they get their ducks in a row; in the meantime victim's family's lawyer is going straight to the media with allegations of criminal behavior and a $25M civil suit.

I've got to say that based on public opinion alone, regardless of whatever circumstances and additional info are unearthed in the coming days, the cop better burn or the whole department will.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
BTW, my favorite explanation so far is that he thought he was going for his tazer and instead grabbed his handgun, AND still pulled the trigger.

I've totally done the same thing when I accidentally hit the wrong hole, but thought "ah ****, I'm here, might as well just go with it."
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,644
3,464
Sleazattle
Here is our famous local version of discretionary enforcement.


The guy in the wheelchair was later ticketed for jay-wheelchairing while in the emergency room.
 

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
4,928
270
Minneapolis
Here is our famous local version of discretionary enforcement.


The guy in the wheelchair was later ticketed for jay-wheelchairing while in the emergency room.
Clearly the cop was Jesus and tried to "Heal" the person in the chair with his magic power car.:brows:
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
The only detail about this officer at this point: On the job for 2 years.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,644
3,464
Sleazattle
The dude in the chair was clearly in the wrong. :twitch:
Police chief determined that the officer was not in the wrong, as there was no way he could have seen the guy. It seems that folks are not supposed to look where they are going before turning left, that is what makes cycling or riding a motorcycle on the road so much fun and why those in wheel chairs should wear helmets.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
there's this severely disabled elderly lady who routinely "drives" her wheelchair on academy boulevard (6 lanes; 45 mph zone). she even hangs a tree out the rear to represent
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,078
98
chez moi
I have a hard time getting video here, but will try to watch this. (Even the text is slow to load...)

But in the meantime, tell me why it's inherently wrong for a police officer to shoot someone in the back.

Ed: Ok, site finally came up and I read it...still no way to know whether shooting was justified from what we know. Possibility certainly exists that it was not, but from the info available we can't draw a conculsion either way. It sure warrants thorough investigation.
 
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MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,078
98
chez moi
That video shows very little that's useful, actually. We don't know what was going on in that tangle. Nothing is "damning" except the commentary of people who claim they know what's going on, but really can't.

Ed: BART is full of surveillance cameras--I'd be interested to see what a possibly higher-res and non-sickness-inducing view might show. That said, the officer's perception is what measures the Constitutional standards for the use of force.
 
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Samirol

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2008
1,437
0
wait, you saw the video and said "hm, I can see where the cop could have had a reason to kill him"?
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,078
98
chez moi
Absolutely. I could also see where the cop possibly stood up and murdered him in cold blood.

That fuzzy cell phone video says nothing about what actually happened.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,644
3,464
Sleazattle
I'm sure there will be enough professional courtesy that the other officers will tell their unbiased accounts.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
5,251
1,390
Prolly a formerly-engaged ghey cop taking out his Prop 8 angst on a member of the impressionable black community.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
Ed: BART is full of surveillance cameras--I'd be interested to see what a possibly higher-res and non-sickness-inducing view might show. That said, the officer's perception is what measures the Constitutional standards for the use of force.
See note earlier. One of the things the cops are keeping sealed is the surveillance tapes as they don't want to taint the jury. I have no idea if those cameras are hi-res or not, nor have they commented on where the cameras are positioned.

Sucks to be them, and not be able to wage the war of public opinion.

At the same time, I think it is very unlikely that the use of deadly force was justified. If you can imagine that scenario (he went for their guns? from face down with two cops on him and a daughter at home?), please share it because I can't come up with one.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
10,078
98
chez moi
I can imagine many scenarios where deadly force was justified based on my own experience in training scenarios. There's no need to have me put some forth so that some other people can tell me how it's impossible that such-and-such happened. I also realize the limitations placed on us by the horrific quality of the video we're watching.

What makes me most dubious in this case that the use of force was justified is that if there had been an attempt to grab for a weapon or he had some sort of concealed weapon in his sleeve or waistband (which, of course, he would have had to move for in order for lethal force to be justified), I'd think that would already be all over the media. But that's not something I really feel qualified to speculate on, either, because I know I don't have first-hand knowledge, and I don't believe in trying these things in the media.

There's a great training video which shows a "clear-cut case of police shooting an unarmed man" from about 20 yards away, then cuts to a different view between the subject and the cops.
 

Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
But in the meantime, tell me why it's inherently wrong for a police officer to shoot someone in the back.
for real?

The new video, obtained by television station KTVU, shows two officers restraining a struggling suspect. While the man is lying face down on the ground, one officer appears to be seen pulling out a gun and firing a single shot into his back.
that is beyond fvcked up...

It isn't the police force's job to publicly execute citizens.

Edit: holy **** that video is amazing, I hope that cop burns.
 
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Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,644
3,464
Sleazattle
ok, for just one of many scenarios which have happened: you got a shooter who's actively picking off people, yet his back is to a cop & isn't obeying commands to cease fire.

c'mon, slick...

He also could have released a very smelly fart. Deadly force is an appropriate response to chemical/biological warfare.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
even worse: what if it were kris kross bustin ass through their backwards pants? being a black teen sure makes it easier
 

1453

Monkey
That video shows very little that's useful, actually. We don't know what was going on in that tangle. Nothing is "damning" except the commentary of people who claim they know what's going on, but really can't.
after watching the ch. 2 video, where 4 cops are on top of a guy who is lying on his stomach and gets shot in the back, and this is the best you can come up with?


Ed: BART is full of surveillance cameras--I'd be interested to see what a possibly higher-res and non-sickness-inducing view might show. That said, the officer's perception is what measures the Constitutional standards for the use of force.
now the police said the surveillance videos may not help....:clue:

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=6581281

OAKLAND, CA (KGO) -- Bay Area Rapid Transit Police are scrambling to explain what happened on Wednesday night, after a young man died from a bullet fired by a BART Police officer. It happened after a fight broke out on an East Bay BART train. People were going home after the New Year's fireworks display in San Francisco.

BART says it now has surveillance video from New Year's morning when a young man was shot to death by a bullet fired from a BART officer's gun.

The video is now in police hands as evidence and will likely be used in the investigation to determine why the officer's gun went off, fatally wounding 22-year-old Oscar Grant of Hayward. However, a BART spokesman told ABC7 News the video may not help explain what happened.
 
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Defenestrated

Turbo Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
1,657
0
Earth
ok, for just one of many scenarios which have happened: you got a shooter who's actively picking off people, yet his back is to a cop & isn't obeying commands to cease fire.

c'mon, slick...
red herring

the man was prone and completely defenseless, and yet that sick fvck decided to put a round in his back?

for what?!

I hope that cop gets what is coming to him.
 
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4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
4,928
270
Minneapolis
The video is now in police hands as evidence and will likely be used in the investigation to determine why the officer's gun went off, fatally wounding 22-year-old Oscar Grant of Hayward.
I would guess cause he pulled the trigger, but then again, I am just a simple country boy.:monkey:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
red herring

the man was prone and completely defenseless, and yet that sick fvck decided to put a round in his back?
not necessarily; maybe dude was planning to pass cop's guard.

spike tv has taught me the ways of homoerotic pseudo-sports
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,412
0
SF
One comment made at lunch yesterday was that the cop had mistaken his taser for his gun in all the commotion.

While the video shows the dead man was on his belly not fighting the officer, I said if an officer cannot the difference between a gun and a taser, he should not be a police officer. No exceptions.
 

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
4,928
270
Minneapolis
One comment made at lunch yesterday was that the cop had mistaken his taser for his gun in all the commotion.

While the video shows the dead man was on his belly not fighting the officer, I said if an officer cannot the difference between a gun and a taser, he should not be a police officer. No exceptions.
Well, he should be a special circumstance arresting officer.

Like show up to "arrest" O.J. :biggrin:
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
One comment made at lunch yesterday was that the cop had mistaken his taser for his gun in all the commotion.
bull****.

on the utility belt:

goes goes here ->
<- taser goes there

or something like that. locals here have 'em right on front like tuco or lee van spleef