[jasride]

It's a bummer for the cop for sure. I'm sure he didn't go to work that night thinking "man, I want to kill somebody tonight." If you can only be a fly on the head of that dude that's sitting court side against the wall with his hands up. He seems to have the best view to see and hear what went on. If only you knew that he would tell the exact truth as to what was said in those last few minutes before and after. I agree with MikeD, the cop looks to have that deer in the headlights look going on as he looks up at his partner. Kind of like "I wanted to just take control of the situation but I didn't mean that much control". Sad for the officer and of coarse the victim.

It also looks like the guy that got shot must have been mouthing off or something because you see the third officer come into the screen from the left pointing at him or
the guy next to him, who knows. Not really clear why and who he was pointing at before the shooting.

 

[Defenestrated]

The fact that he was face down with his hands behind his back isn't exactly news. That new video still doesn't show me anything in detail about what might have caused the cop to shoot. It does provide a clearer picture of what was going on in general and afterward, however.

I could present you with a deadly-force level threat lying on my back with my hands behind my back and you on top of me. Especially if you had a gun inches from my hand (as could happen when prone-cuffing a subject) or if I had a concealed weapon in my waistband. Or if the totality of the circumstances led you to believe I was armed and dangerous (say, I whispered "you're gonna die") and broke one of my hands free, moving it towards my waistband or ankle (common places for concealment of a knife, gun, or other weapon). This is mere example, by the way--I'm NOT saying this subject did any such thing, just that it is possible to present a threat while being handcuffed.

That said, my best *guess* from the vids I've seen is that the cop shot unintentionally, ie negligently, as I've already said. The better video reinforces this initial opinion for me. The cop's face certainly seems to register suprise and disbelief after the shot, nor does he remain in an aggressive posture and continue to assess the threat; he gets a very deer-in-the-headlights look.

Also, if the cop had reasonable belief that the subject posed a potential deadly threat, I think we'd have heard something about it by now in the media. But again, that's my supposition. I'm willing to wait for an investigation before I consider my own uninformed opinion of the situation to be, well...informed.

MD

Is it regulation to shoot or could they have reached the same end with maybe a swift kick to the head?

 

[DaveW]

Seriously. Sorry to the police supporters, but the po po got this one way wrong. New video clearly shows the victim (yes, that's the right word) lying face down with his hands behind his back when he is shot.

Video

Whether it was an accident or something more sinister, that cop is done.

Hmm Having watched that video I'd say accidental discharge, but I did find it hard to make out the details as the video was badly lit and quite compressed for the internet.
Both officers actions seemed relatively unhurried and I don't think the cop would have willingly discharged the weapon so close to his buddy on purpose........

 

[blue]

I could present you with a deadly-force level threat lying on my back with my hands behind my back and you on top of me. Especially if you had a gun inches from my hand (as could happen when prone-cuffing a subject) or if I had a concealed weapon in my waistband. Or if the totality of the circumstances led you to believe I was armed and dangerous (say, I whispered "you're gonna die") and broke one of my hands free, moving it towards my waistband or ankle (common places for concealment of a knife, gun, or other weapon). This is mere example, by the way--I'm NOT saying this subject did any such thing, just that it is possible to present a threat while being handcuffed.

Do we need 18 more cell phone videos to get the blue wall to back the fvck down? It's not like this isn't well-documented and witnessed.

Intentional or not, the cop murdered a guy. Imprisonment on aisle 4, pls.

Poor police, so oppressed! Why do they get so much goddamn benefit of a doubt? The evidence floating on the internet would be enough for a conviction of a civilian with jury deliberation of 5 minutes.

 

[$tinkle]

Intentional or not, the cop murdered a guy. Imprisonment on aisle 4, pls.

+rep in the hopes you'll redeem it for a dictionary

 

[blue]

+rep in the hopes you'll redeem it for a dictionary

Main Entry:
mur·der
Pronunciation:
\ˈmər-dər\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
partly from Middle English murther, from Old English morthor; partly from Middle English murdre, from Anglo-French, of Germanic origin; akin to Old English morthor; akin to Old High German mord murder, Latin mort-, mors death, mori to die, mortuus dead, Greek brotos mortal
Date:
before 12th century

1: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought2 a: something very difficult or dangerous <the traffic was murder> b: something outrageous or blameworthy <getting away with murder>

To borrow from another thread, it's not like he was randomly hit by a police cruiser.

Do you get thicker the more pro-Israel posts you make? Eloquent wit can't hide your special brand of retardation.

 

[$tinkle]

Intentional or not, the cop murdered a guy

(murder def) with malice aforethought

what distraction will you choose to employ that i've pointed out your contradiction? how many relationships have you ruined with your smug inability to humble yourself in the face absolute truth?

how's your personal life?

what's it like to be bitter, paranoid, ineffective, uninfluential, despondent, hopeless, invisible, and a perpetual disappointment?

how many times have you considered suicide? would you go out like a bitch with pills, or would you try to impress daddy by "doing it right" with a handgun?

 

[dan-o]

what distraction will you choose to employ that i've pointed out your contradiction? how many relationships have you ruined with your smug inability to humble yourself in the face absolute truth?

how's your personal life?

what's it like to be bitter, paranoid, ineffective, uninfluential, despondent, hopeless, invisible, and a perpetual disappointment?

how many times have you considered suicide? would you go out like a bitch with pills, or would you try to impress daddy by "doing it right" with a handgun?

:biggrin:

 

[blue]

what distraction will you choose to employ that i've pointed out your contradiction? how many relationships have you ruined with your smug inability to humble yourself in the face absolute truth?

Perhaps the word "especially".

what's it like to be bitter, paranoid, ineffective, uninfluential, despondent, hopeless, invisible, and a perpetual disappointment?

how many times have you considered suicide? would you go out like a bitch with pills, or would you try to impress daddy by "doing it right" with a handgun?

Fvcking awesome.

And twice. Okay, once. I mean, shrooms don't count, right?

Don't you have a troll-jesus-bible to thump on some satanic homo?

 

[RenegadeRick]

what distraction will you choose to employ that i've pointed out your contradiction?

Are you ignoring the "especially" in the definition just so you can ride little boy blue?




EDIT: never mind. I see little boy blue can take care of himself.

Don't you boys have something better to do on a Friday night?
Come to think of it, don't I? :loser:

 

[JohnE]

 

[sanjuro]

Relax everyone.

If it is not obvious, there are virulently anti-police folk, pro-police people, and one North Carolina cop in this forum.

We are going to use appropriate language to our political circles which strongly offends the other groups.

I think we are all in agreement that this killing was unnecessary, and now all we can do is speculate about the motive.

 

[ohio]

Perhaps the word "especially".

Dude, even I get $tink.

Murder is intentional. There is no such thing as unintentional murder. It was a small gaffe in your sentence logic that no one cared about but the bible-thumper, and no one would have cared about if you had the capacity to admit it was a gaffe.

I hope I haven't just ruined everyone's fun.

 

[JohnE]

Even if this was a highly pre-meditated mob hit...there is little to no way to prove it, barring a breakdown of some sort by the BART cop. It was an unfortunate accidental killing.

 

[Defenestrated]

I speak for a lot of people in saying that I just don't want to be 'accidentally killed' while being arrested if at all possible.

 

[$tinkle]

just pull it

 

[stevew]

so there were 123 other execution/murders that happened in oakland last year that no one gave a fvck about....

that's what i'm getting from this thread.

 

[Samirol]

so there were 123 other execution/murders that happened in oakland last year that no one gave a fvck about....

that's what i'm getting from this thread.

None of those were cops killing an unarmed man with his hands behind his back

 

[stevew]

None of those were cops killing an unarmed man with his hands behind his back

so if it wasn't a cop doing the killing you wouldn't give a sh*t?

 

[Samirol]

so if it wasn't a cop doing the killing you wouldn't give a sh*t?

I do, but it wouldn't be as discussion-worthy, and because it was the cop doing the killing, it is discussion-worthy

 

[Defenestrated]

so if it wasn't a cop doing the killing you wouldn't give a sh*t?

So your implying that you'd prefer to have the police force murdering citizens than citizens murdering other citizens?

 

[dan-o]

so if it wasn't a cop doing the killing you wouldn't give a sh*t?

If there is no Man/Corporation/Nation State preying on the Oppressed/Unions/Freedom Fighters then the Wikipedia Revolutionary Front turns the other cheek.

 

[Defenestrated]

If there is no Man/Corporation/Nation State preying on the Oppressed/Unions/Freedom Fighters then the Wikipedia Revolutionary Front turns the other cheek.

did you come in here looking for a fight or something?

 

[DaveW]

did you come in here looking for a fight or something?

Why else would anyone post in this forum noob.

ps lovin the tags on this thread.

 

[Samirol]

Wikipedia Revolutionary Front

Considering that it is founded by a bunch of Ayn Rand worshippers, WRF's utopia would probably look like bioshock

 

[stevew]

So your implying that you'd prefer to have the police force murdering citizens than citizens murdering other citizens?

uhhh...no.

 

[RenegadeRick]

None of those were cops killing an unarmed man with his hands behind his back

On video. Don't forget ON VIDEO.

What about all the other things that happened that were not on video?

It makes you wonder what happens when the people don't have the oversight afforded by the marvels of modern technology.

 

[sanjuro]

On video. Don't forget ON VIDEO.

What about all the other things that happened that were not on video?

It makes you wonder what happens when the people don't have the oversight afforded by the marvels of modern technology.

Sadly, if there wasn't video, this incident would have been a suspect resisting arrest story on page 3 of the newspaper.

 

[MikeD]

Is it regulation to shoot or could they have reached the same end with maybe a swift kick to the head?

You're never required to act in a certain way by Constitutional standards--it's a matter of what options are legally available to you. What you choose to do is your choice and perhaps a matter of organizational policy.

By the way, legally, kicking someone in the head is also the use of deadly force.

 

[$tinkle]

so if it wasn't a cop doing the killing you wouldn't give a sh*t?

it's the widely-held opinion that the most abhorent abuse of a child is by a same-sexed priest. the tragedy is most people care more about pointing out the failings of those sworn to uphold & fulfill the law than the victims.

even atlas shrugged

 

[manimal]

On video. Don't forget ON VIDEO.

What about all the other things that happened that were not on video?

It makes you wonder what happens when the people don't have the oversight afforded by the marvels of modern technology.

what about the thousands and thousands of videos that don't show any excessive force? oh yeah, those aren't news worthy, just the few that go very wrong are ever aired but then it's too late, the 10,000 legit, lawful and reasonable, uses of force are now moot and we're all just high school nerds getting our revenge on society.

i'm filmed nearly every time i use force. everyone in the hood has a camera phone and whips it out when they see us chasing somebody down (on foot or bike )
the phones/cameras usually get put away after the first 30 seconds when the suspect is sitting on the curb, handcuffed, and apologizing for running. but again, that's not news worthy so why upload it to youtube if it shows cops in a good light.

 

[MMike]

it's the widely-held opinion that the most abhorent abuse of a child is by a same-sexed priest. the tragedy is most people care more about pointing out the failings of those sworn to uphold & fulfill the law than the victims.

even atlas shrugged

Well yeah....if they have a position that is "supposed" to make them a beacon of good morals/values for the rest of us, then sure, your faith in the system get tested......

(I haven't read of of this thread)

 

[MMike]

what about the thousands and thousands of videos that don't show any excessive force? oh yeah, those aren't news worthy, just the few that go very wrong are ever aired but then it's too late, the 10,000 legit, lawful and reasonable, uses of force are now moot and we're all just high school nerds getting our revenge on society.

i'm filmed nearly every time i use force. everyone in the hood has a camera phone and whips it out when they see us chasing somebody down (on foot or bike )
the phones/cameras usually get put away after the first 30 seconds when the suspect is sitting on the curb, handcuffed, and apologizing for running. but again, that's not news worthy so why upload it to youtube if it shows cops in a good light.

Of course it's not newsworthy, because that is supposed to be the norm. It's what's expected of the cops. Jsut like they only show high speed chases on TV and not a film of traffic flowing properly.

 

[sanjuro]

what about the thousands and thousands of videos that don't show any excessive force? oh yeah, those aren't news worthy, just the few that go very wrong are ever aired but then it's too late, the 10,000 legit, lawful and reasonable, uses of force are now moot and we're all just high school nerds getting our revenge on society.

i'm filmed nearly every time i use force. everyone in the hood has a camera phone and whips it out when they see us chasing somebody down (on foot or bike )
the phones/cameras usually get put away after the first 30 seconds when the suspect is sitting on the curb, handcuffed, and apologizing for running. but again, that's not news worthy so why upload it to youtube if it shows cops in a good light.

I think there is a history of police brutality in the inner-city that has been unreported. I don't think it affects every police officer, but it happens often enough that citizens are wary for it.

Video is an impartial witness to any arrest.

This has might have whipped up the local community into a frenzy, but the fact remains that a man in handcuffs lying on his stomach was shot in the back by a police officer.

There is an outcry wondering why this officer has not been charged with a crime yet. I wonder now myself.

 

[$tinkle]

Video is an impartial witness to any arrest.

tell that to Officer Laurence Powell and Sergeant Stacey Koon

 

[sanjuro]

I guess they didn't beat up Rodney King, did they?

 

[Samirol]

I guess they didn't beat up Rodney King, did they?

It was reverse racism by the courts

 

[$tinkle]

I guess they didn't beat up Rodney King, did they?

i don't want to pretend that i know what you know. i hope you believe he was resisting arrest while under the influence after a high-speed (100+ mph) car chase in an urban area with 2 passengers, and the response was mostly proportionate (the last 30 seconds is a bit of a bugaboo). but given that he threw 2 officers attempting to arrest him & was unphased (hee!hee!) by a taser, i can see where a reasonable person - or 12 - could conclude the force used was appropriate.

no wonder derek vinyard was pissed

 

[sanjuro]

Hey, the jury didn't convict the officers, did they?

Justice was served.

So I wonder why LA decided to riot?

 

[$tinkle]

So I wonder why LA decided to riot?

black store owners had it coming.

don't front