[Damn True]

Honestly, the DNC and the media rode the wrong horse.
Howard Dean could have won this election easilly.
Bright, energetic, personable, and a sense of humor even when it came to himself. A crapload of good ideas, and ACTUAL PLANS to make them happen.
But based on one speech where he got fired up (geez a little enthusiasm and passion is a good thing) and made a funny sound the media killed him, the DNC abandoned him, and Kerry set on him like a vulture.

Dean would have won. I was strongly considering voting for the guy....as were a lot of moderates.

You wanna be pissed? Be pissed at the DNC, the media, John Kerry, and the Democrats that voted in the primaries for shooting down Howard Dean. The nice guy finished last, and ya'all did it to him.

 

[Silver]

You seriously would have voted for Dean? Why?

 

[N8 v2.0]

Dean was too much of a threat to Hillary and was brought down by the Clinton run DNC.

Libs should have banded together and forced Nader to the front.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Dean?

No effing way Dean would have won.

Lieberman/Gephardt was the ticket IMO.

 

[Damn True]

I said I was strongly considering it.
Why? Because I believed he was speaking from his personal belief system rather than a "Party Platform". I agreed with many of his ideas. He had actual plans to do things that were written down rather than saying, "I have a plan" but not ever showing it.
I thought that he had passion and energy and that he honestly had the best interests of this Nation in mind. That said, I didn't agree with ALL of what he had to say. Nor do I agree with ALL of Bush's policies and decisions. But By virtue of the above I felt that Dean would not have willingly done something to "F" things up.

It would have been a tough decision for me between he and Bush. As it was, the decision was made for me when Kerry won the nomination.

 

[Damn True]

Dean?

No effing way Dean would have won.

Lieberman/Gephardt was the ticket IMO.

Lieberman is another sincerely good man......Gephardt though would have cost him the election.

 

[Silver]

Dean is WAY further left than Kerry ever was...

I find your rationale interesting. I was hoping for Clark, personally.

 

[Silver]

Lieberman is another sincerely good man......Gephardt though would have cost him the election.

Lieberman is a Republican

And all those Red states? Lieberman being a Jew would have played nicely to them.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Dean?

No effing way Dean would have won.

Lieberman/Gephardt was the ticket IMO.

Better than that.... a Lieberman/Zell Miller ticket would have been unbeatable.

But alas... these Democrats don't really fit into the MichaelMoore/George Soros DNC anymore....

If the Democrats don't get a handle on the extreme faction of their party. losing elections will become routine.

 

[Damn True]

Lieberman is a Republican

And all those Red states? Lieberman being a Jew would have played nicely to them.

No way the hardcore left would vote for a jew. They would assume that he would NEVER pull the $$ from Israel.

Have no idea where Lieberman actually stands on that though.

 

[Damn True]

Dean is WAY further left than Kerry ever was...

I find your rationale interesting. I was hoping for Clark, personally.

In some area's yes, in others no. But the difference is that he stands FIRM on his beliefs regardless of their popularity. That IMO is part and parcel to being a good leader.

 

[Silver]

No way the hardcore left would vote for a jew. They would assume that he would NEVER pull the $$ from Israel.

Have no idea where Lieberman actually stands on that though.

No, seriously, if they nominate Lieberman, they might as well vote for a Republican.

I still think the best way to go was left (Dean) or a new centrist (Clark).

Kerry was trying to be everything to everyone. Don't take that as an endorsement for Bush though, I've long been a Ham Sandwich man.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Like I said.

Lieberman was the only way IMO. I would have voted for him. But as silver said, he is basically a republican.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Hey True,

Can you imagine if Dean had won all the primaries, what the Bush camp would have done with his little "screaching" fit?
Oh man...it would not be pretty.

 

[Damn True]

Kerry was trying to be everything to everyone. Don't take that as an endorsement for Bush though, I've long been a Ham Sandwich man.

There is hysterical precedant for that. Clinton stayed in office for two terms by being a wind sock. I guess people aren't buying that anymore and prefer a bit of conviction.

 

[Damn True]

Hey True,

Can you imagine if Dean had won all the primaries, what the Bush camp would have done with his little "screaching" fit?
Oh man...it would not be pretty.

Could they have treated him any worse than his own party did?

 

[Damn True]

Interesting stats:

Bush got 51% of the vote, the first president with 51% of the vote since his father in 1988. Bill Clinton never got 50% of the vote. Bush is the first to do so in 12 years. The most votes ever for a president, including Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush last night. John Kennedy's electoral popular vote majority, his win in 1960 was 112,000 votes -- less than Bush's margin in Ohio,

 

[Serial Midget]

Which means he won this one, he didn't win the first one IMO.

Also - Clinton / Bush and Clinton / Dole had Ross Perot to deal with. Perot had far more impact as a third party candidate then Ralph Nader ever did.

Interesting stats:

Bush got 51% of the vote, the first president with 51% of the vote since his father in 1988. Bill Clinton never got 50% of the vote. Bush is the first to do so in 12 years. The most votes ever for a president, including Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush last night. John Kennedy's electoral popular vote majority, his win in 1960 was 112,000 votes -- less than Bush's margin in Ohio,

 

[Changleen]

Gotta say I pretty much agree with DT here.

 

[Serial Midget]

Gotta say I pretty much agree with DT here.

So, what is your point?

 

[Changleen]

...

That I agree with him?...

 

[Damn True]

Which means he won this one, he didn't win the first one IMO.

Also - Clinton / Bush and Clinton / Dole had Ross Perot to deal with. Perot had far more impact as a third party candidate then Ralph Nader ever did.

So the third party votes that went to the Dems didn't seem to help?

That fails to jive with the Dems claim that Perot and Nader cost them the previous elections.

 

[Changleen]

If you review the voting this time on a state by state basis Nader did cost Kerry at least one state that I saw, I'm not sure of the EC votes associated with it, but he was a factor. If that changed the win or not I don't know. Anyone have a link to complete results handy?

 

[Transcend]

Honestly, the DNC and the media rode the wrong horse.
Howard Dean could have won this election easilly.
Bright, energetic, personable, and a sense of humor even when it came to himself. A crapload of good ideas, and ACTUAL PLANS to make them happen.
But based on one speech where he got fired up (geez a little enthusiasm and passion is a good thing) and made a funny sound the media killed him, the DNC abandoned him, and Kerry set on him like a vulture.

Dean would have won. I was strongly considering voting for the guy....as were a lot of moderates.

You wanna be pissed? Be pissed at the DNC, the media, John Kerry, and the Democrats that voted in the primaries for shooting down Howard Dean. The nice guy finished last, and ya'all did it to him.

I disagree, I don't think the DNC had ANY candidate that could have beaten bush to be honest. Kerry was a total moron in all regards (my opinion) and just can't take a firm stance on anything. Dean had convictions to be sure, but i think he was WAY WAY too left wing for the right and moderates to vote for him on most issues.

Hillary Clinton would have won.