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High or Low pivot

atb

Monkey
Jun 18, 2004
201
0
the north shore
Iv narrowed my choices down to two choices. The first is a 2005 turner DHR with a DHX 5 rear. The second choice is a Clifcat Solution DH with a DHX air and a floating rear break. It’s mainly a choice between a high pivot bike and a low pivot bike. I ride mostly shore, and steep rocky and rooty trails with some tech ladder bridge stunts, and large gaps.

my last bike was a giant dh team.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
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Transylvania 90210
bomberboy11 said:
I'd say the Clifcat, even though I've never seen the bike...I just can't really imagine a DHR on ladders.
if you cannot imagine it, it probably won't work. like when people could not imagine a 7" single crown fork :thumb:

my understanding is that pivot placement is going to impact two things
1 - pedaling - higher pivots tend to pedal better. steep rooty rocky stuff with jumps does not sound like a pedal-type environment. i am sure you will need to stand and hammer to get up hills, which will suck on either bike. modern platform shocks will help with the pedaling qualities. i bet both bikes would be equal.

2 - wheel path - the higher pivot bikes tend to have a more rearward wheel path, which is nice on big hits because it stretches your wheelbase on the impact, making things a bit more stable. they also don't pull the wheel into obstacles like low pivot bikes do with their forward wheel path.

that said, i have friends who kill it on the turner on all the trails of whistler. nobody complains about performance. the bike is smooth and quiet and rails corners. my high-pivot experience is on a bb7. i love that bike. not sure how similar the clif-cat is, but i would bet that they have many of the same characteristics. i like the high pivot idea, and that would get my vote.
 

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
-High pivot bikes tend to be harder to wheelie and manual because the wheelbase grows as the suspension compresses, seems like a bad trait for slow speed shore style riding.

-Either way the DHR is a race bike not a huck bike, not sure why you would get one if you are not racing, especially when the Highline is coming out very soon from what I hear.
 

bomberboy11

Monkey
Jul 15, 2005
665
0
At a computer...duh
After seeing the Clifcat I now change my vote to the DHR. That thing just looks...weird. The DHR's are known to be super solid and, despite having the shrinking wheelbase, super smooth.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
14,039
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Tootrikky said:
-High pivot bikes tend to be harder to wheelie and manual because the wheelbase grows as the suspension compresses, seems like a bad trait for slow speed shore style riding.

-Either way the DHR is a race bike not a huck bike, not sure why you would get one if you are not racing, especially when the Highline is coming out very soon from what I hear.
i would argue that the ease of wheelie/manual. my bb7 is easy as pie to get up. it took some practice, but it does the job well. the high pivot also is less reactive to pedal forces than a low pivot, so pedal kicks on a high pivot bike should (in theory) translate into an easier time bringing up the front.

either way, both do seem more like dh/race bikes that might not be the best options for slow speed shore riding.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
Agreed, while plenty of people ride slow tech stuff on DH race bikes (including me) if you don't race or do lots of high-speed DH runs, you're better off with something shorter in length, shorter in chainstays, with a higher BB.

Something like:
Santa Cruz VP-Free
IH 7Point
Foes Fly
Kona Stinky
Specialized Demo (either 8 or 9 in the tall/steep position)
etc.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
mandown said:
i would argue that the ease of wheelie/manual. my bb7 is easy as pie to get up. it took some practice, but it does the job well. the high pivot also is less reactive to pedal forces than a low pivot, so pedal kicks on a high pivot bike should (in theory) translate into an easier time bringing up the front.

either way, both do seem more like dh/race bikes that might not be the best options for slow speed shore riding.
Really... I have the hardest time wheelieing/manualing my bb7, even with my screename being "WheelieMan"!

But seriously, I don't know why anyone would base a decision on how well a frame manuals/wheelies. Very rarely are these skills actually used when riding on a trail.

I do find however that high-pivots can be a chore to jump and drop, the lengthening chainstays makes it difficult to pick up the front end.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
WheelieMan said:
But seriously, I don't know why anyone would base a decision on how well a frame manuals/wheelies. Very rarely are these skills actually used when riding on a trail.
Low speed drops to flat, which occur a lot on techy/stunty trails, require wheelie drops. If you can't pedal kick and pop up the front end, you can end up in a world of hurt.

FWIW, I found my hardtail safer and easier for that type of riding than my old '00 Turner DHR which was shorter and steeper than the current version. The hardtail was better even on the drops. Downhill bikes are just too low and soft for that type of riding... doable, but if that's the primary type of trails you hit, look elsewhere.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
ohio said:
Low speed drops to flat, which occur a lot on techy/stunty trails, require wheelie drops. If you can't pedal kick and pop up the front end, you can end up in a world of hurt.

FWIW, I found my hardtail safer and easier for that type of riding than my old '00 Turner DHR which was shorter and steeper than the current version. The hardtail was better even on the drops. Downhill bikes are just too low and soft for that type of riding... doable, but if that's the primary type of trails you hit, look elsewhere.
True.

When you're dealing with a 45 pound DH bike though, it won't be easy to wheelie drop no matter what kind of suspension design you've got.
 

Dunshee80

Chimp
Aug 16, 2004
41
0
bomberboy11 said:
After seeing the Clifcat I now change my vote to the DHR. That thing just looks...weird. The DHR's are known to be super solid and, despite having the shrinking wheelbase, super smooth.
did you see one in person? or just on the web. I'm curious as to the quality fof their(clifcat) frames.
 

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
14,039
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Transylvania 90210
Dunshee80 said:
did you see one in person? or just on the web. I'm curious as to the quality fof their(clifcat) frames.
yeah. i don't know if it was just the picture on the link, but the frame did not look "finished." i loved the look of the old aluminum tanka$$ frames.
 

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
bomberboy11 said:
I just saw it from the link above. Build quality looks good, and based on the previous Clifcat's I've seen in person it should be good...but it just looks like ass.
Yeah I agree. They could have trimmed the design down a tad to make it look more like a race bike instead of a huck bike. Design looks very promising though...