I've been told off by hikers at Big Bear before...I think we were off of Snow Summit, though.
Hikers and DHers
- Thread starter 5150dhbiker
- Start date
The hikers in the Reno-Tahoe area are cool, absolutely no problems in the 3 years I've lived here. As previously stated, XC riders give us the most sh!t, which is weird since we all ride xc as well. God forbid we interrupt their Lance Armstong-like-cadence as they are creeping up a posted DH trail. Also been roosted by two passing moto-dicks as they proceeded to give us the bird as they sped away like cowards.....Despite my previous post, never take out your frustration on the dog, it is not their fault their owners are idiots
Hikers in northern Utar aren't bad at all. They're actually really nice. They understand that they are sharing the trail with bikers, horses, and other hikers. If they get mad at any bikers, it's because the bikers are new and don't understand that skidding isn't cool on the trail.
All the hikers I have encountered in New England have been polite and friendly.
haha bikes erode trails WAY more than hikers. That old study everyone quotes cites XC trail usage on low-gradient terrain, dry, hardpack dirt with NO BRAKE LOCKUP, which is a far cry from the typical DH run. Ever seen a hiking trail with braking bumps? Or a hiker kicking up roost? If that claim was true the trail crew in Whistler would be doing a lot more maintenance on the hiking trails - maybe closing each one for maintenance 3 times a week like they do Heart of Darkness.
Regardless, guy is obviously a moron, good on ya for keeping your cool.
Judging from the sound of the guy flipping out from the moment he saw him I doubt he'd give you the chance to say anything let alone try to give him the history of high end cycling. It's best to try and control yourself and ride away vs's assult charges later on. I can honestly say I dont thnik I would have kept my cool that long with that kind of attitude unless maybe I was on Mtv's "Boiling point" heh...
We all do damage, I studied trail erosion a bit for a paper in college, I felt inspired after my environmental studies professor made some rather bold statements
I don't have the paper or sources any more but here's the gist of it. Hikers tend to 'braid' the trail more and make short offshoots and 'freehike' all over the place as well. MTB damage, for the most part, is confined to the trail itself. Shallow slopes saw little or no difference between hiker or biker. Steep slopes, like you mentioned saw more damage from brake dragging. I agree that DH riding generates higher erosion than hiking or XC riding, but it all pales into the erosion generated by equestrian use. A 1000 lb animal putting potentially most of its weight onto one or two hooves can cause cratering in the trailbed, or chunking off the outside edge. Moto damage is on par with equestrian with a lot more damage than bikes or hikers. And the real trail eroder? Rain, you got it, mother nature is trashing the trails way worse than all of the users combined.
Courdelane (beauty creek) we had a hiker shove the second to last guy in line and almost knock him over the edge. We were going slow and near a corner so he was literally at a snails pace.
I was the last guy up and proceeded to unmount and ask him if him if it was my turn to throw him over.
Apperently he didnt like that idea and said he didnt do it he was sorry and proceeded up the hill! LOL
I laugh at this stuff, people take kindness for a weekness and stereotype DHrs as young small punks!
Either way its easier to just shrug stuff off and be happy!
And "No" 5150 SB is definently a walking the line area, lots of $ hikers and equestrians and then the DHrs. So its good you restrained yourself we have always been lucky when riding there as well as respect the trail users.
I dont want to be the reason its shut down LOL,,,
I was the last guy up and proceeded to unmount and ask him if him if it was my turn to throw him over.
Apperently he didnt like that idea and said he didnt do it he was sorry and proceeded up the hill! LOL
I laugh at this stuff, people take kindness for a weekness and stereotype DHrs as young small punks!
Either way its easier to just shrug stuff off and be happy!
And "No" 5150 SB is definently a walking the line area, lots of $ hikers and equestrians and then the DHrs. So its good you restrained yourself we have always been lucky when riding there as well as respect the trail users.
I dont want to be the reason its shut down LOL,,,
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hikers around here find it sporting to be able to bail off the trails in order not to get creamed by the bikes.
LOL extreme hiking!
Yerp, agreed on all those points for sure, motos and horses are WAY WAY worse than bikes or hikers. It just annoys me a little bit when people try to compare the erosion caused by DH (which is pretty significant - look what happens to a race track over the course of a race weekend alone) to walking. Hikers don't skid! If MTBers want to make arguments in favour of MTB trail access it should IMO be done with arguments that are actually true.We all do damage, I studied trail erosion a bit for a paper in college, I felt inspired after my environmental studies professor made some rather bold statements
Hikers tend to 'braid' the trail more and make short offshoots and 'freehike' all over the place as well. MTB damage, for the most part, is confined to the trail itself. Shallow slopes saw little or no difference between hiker or biker. Steep slopes, like you mentioned saw more damage from brake dragging. I agree that DH riding generates higher erosion than hiking or XC riding, but it all pales into the erosion generated by equestrian use. A 1000 lb animal putting potentially most of its weight onto one or two hooves can cause cratering in the trailbed, or chunking off the outside edge. Moto damage is on par with equestrian with a lot more damage than bikes or hikers. And the real trail eroder? Rain, you got it, mother nature is trashing the trails way worse than all of the users combined.
hikers nowadays often have these nordic walking poles with them, have you ever seen a trail in the alpes after a horde of nordic walkers used it?
AHHH yes we are camped out in our hut awaiting the mysterious and yet elusive hord of nordic hikers. We will be like the shadows of night as we attempt to capture these creatures on film. LOL
It probably looks like a plugged lawn for airation!
Hey I talked to Bobby Root, hes headed your way in march with his family. Seems as Rosa will be relocating him there in the near future.
A little POd as no more smoking apple runs in the mtns with him and off the hook wild lines with alot of $hit talk or free breakfast at his house before rides. But you guys are lucky to have him coming over, funny and a really good person...
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Thanks for your restraint. It's not easy these days ignore idiocy...
Last season I was training a guy down one of our more popular trails. There are a couple switchbacks and I saw the guy coming up from above. When we got to where he was, I could hear him yelling and pointing to the dude I was following. I slowed down to hear what he was saying and he GRABBED me! Not a tackle, but he tried to grab my shoulders to slow me down I guess...
I stopped and took off my helmet, thinking; Hmmm. How's this gonna turn out? I can't remember all the details of our conversation, but the jist of his problem was that dudes like me and my friend were riding at unsafe speeds and somebody was going to get hurt. I explained to him that I saw him coming and had slowed down already. As an acting VP of our local freeride/downhill club, I explained how members of the club had put more work on the trail in question than anyone else, and we had actually made it safer by clearing brush and making the line of sight much farther.
Long story short, I managed to clam him down and we actually left on good terms... He was WAY more rational than your poodle walkin wacko!
Last season I was training a guy down one of our more popular trails. There are a couple switchbacks and I saw the guy coming up from above. When we got to where he was, I could hear him yelling and pointing to the dude I was following. I slowed down to hear what he was saying and he GRABBED me! Not a tackle, but he tried to grab my shoulders to slow me down I guess...
I stopped and took off my helmet, thinking; Hmmm. How's this gonna turn out? I can't remember all the details of our conversation, but the jist of his problem was that dudes like me and my friend were riding at unsafe speeds and somebody was going to get hurt. I explained to him that I saw him coming and had slowed down already. As an acting VP of our local freeride/downhill club, I explained how members of the club had put more work on the trail in question than anyone else, and we had actually made it safer by clearing brush and making the line of sight much farther.
Long story short, I managed to clam him down and we actually left on good terms... He was WAY more rational than your poodle walkin wacko!
well we have this week been told that a 15 yr old legal MTB XC trail in Sydney Australia is now no longer legal, well parts of it which now make the loop unride-able, as its suddenly become a safety hazard for walkers!! WTF!!
This has cause uproar in Sydney as riders far outweigh the walkers, and even contributed to helping the rangers build it up as a sustainable trail
This has cause uproar in Sydney as riders far outweigh the walkers, and even contributed to helping the rangers build it up as a sustainable trail
I don't know about you, but on a race track skidding, roosting etc. is fair game, on a multiuse trail it is not! So you can't really compare. Most of my buddies are in the same mindset and those that are not .... well, they don't get invited when we ride multiuse trails.
You'd have to consider other large scale events if you are comparing a large group of bikers to be more fair. Trail running/eco challenges/large group of backpackers/nordic hikers/trekkers etc. Hikers are also going off trail far more often and in places bikes almost never or never can disturb - moss covered boulder fields/scree fields/other geological features, sand dunes, unrideable extremely steep slopes etc.
Well, it also depends on the skill level of the rider in question as well. What I've noticed after the years of racing is that a lot of the braking bumps are caused by the less experienced riders. I personally think that's true on trails as well. There would be a lot more damage caused by a less experienced rider going down something steep and dragging brakes then a rider using no to little brakes.
For example: Snowmass this past year during practice kind of proves my point. On the final day of practice, Pro practice was in the morning and the course was rough but it was not too bad. After practice I grabbed a beer and walked the course to watch Cat 1 practice. During that it started to get just slightly worse but the major changes came with Cat 2/3 practice. By race day there were MASSIVE braking bumps and one corner that origionally had a 1/2ft drop into it turned into a 3' drop.
Personally, I'm all for the trails here being shut down to bikers as long as we can create the same amount of "Bike Only" trails. That would be sooooooooooooo sick!
For example: Snowmass this past year during practice kind of proves my point. On the final day of practice, Pro practice was in the morning and the course was rough but it was not too bad. After practice I grabbed a beer and walked the course to watch Cat 1 practice. During that it started to get just slightly worse but the major changes came with Cat 2/3 practice. By race day there were MASSIVE braking bumps and one corner that origionally had a 1/2ft drop into it turned into a 3' drop.
Personally, I'm all for the trails here being shut down to bikers as long as we can create the same amount of "Bike Only" trails. That would be sooooooooooooo sick!
About my previous post.
It also depends on the exact style course/trail though where skill level and trail erosion comes into play. For corners there is NO doubt in my mind that myself and probably most of the riders here in SB cause more damage. Face it, sliding corners is fun but causes more damage.
Not going to argue that we do cause damage and it is not good for the trails, but like Noah said, horses cause WAAAYYYY more then we do!
OK, ANOTHER thing also.
When I'm riding our local trails I do not ride as fast as I could so that way I can stop in enough time to avoid any hikers. I've ridden with quite a few people who ride flat out as fast as they can and they're the ones that blow by hikers and cause HUGE confrontations. People just plain old need to learn trail etiquette...it's not that hard!
It also depends on the exact style course/trail though where skill level and trail erosion comes into play. For corners there is NO doubt in my mind that myself and probably most of the riders here in SB cause more damage. Face it, sliding corners is fun but causes more damage.
Not going to argue that we do cause damage and it is not good for the trails, but like Noah said, horses cause WAAAYYYY more then we do!
OK, ANOTHER thing also.
When I'm riding our local trails I do not ride as fast as I could so that way I can stop in enough time to avoid any hikers. I've ridden with quite a few people who ride flat out as fast as they can and they're the ones that blow by hikers and cause HUGE confrontations. People just plain old need to learn trail etiquette...it's not that hard!
Uggg, I hear that. I remember this past fall hacktastic and I were riding certain trails in the orange county (steep trails with "the turn" on them) and we were riding behind some factory pro sponsored riders, and holy sh*T they were riding like douchebags. Sliding every turn, kicking ass loads of dirt, causing massive erosion, it was incredibly pathetic. Personally I don't get it. If you can't ride the trail fast without dragging your rear end through it, you can't ride it fast, period. Youre not impressing anyone if you have to ruin the trail to lay down a fast run.
here on the central coast (california) or more specificly san luis/los osos/morro bay. the hiker/biker relashionship is mixed. sometimes people move right over and watch with no complaints, and sometimes you get people who will explain to you that you are the worst thing in the world and should rott in hell. one experience was when my two younger brothers age 9 and 16 were riding down a local trail (Black Hill) and were yelled and cussed out for about a minute about how we arnt even suppost to be on the trail and that because the trail has waterbars its not a biking trail. i was confused by this statement because most trails in our area have waterbars...anyways we crossed that guy off as an insane person. next of my encounters was a guy hiking up the trail on the last bit of madonna in SLO. he was on the outside of the double track, and altho this is a very fast part of the tracksdjgbasd Trail, he saw me and kept to one side. as i get closer he kinda starts to look funny and decides it would be a good idea to switch lanes and start screaming "SLOW DOWN F***ER!!!!". to which I replied "OH SH**!!!" and promptly slam on the brakes and switch to the wide open grassy adjacent to the screaming hiker and finish my run. this one also puzzled me because what if i ran into him? that would have sucked for both of us. anyways i crossed that guy off as an angry insane person. next was a nice lady who decided to let us know that the berms (ruts) we make by skidding (drifting) around corners look like allot of erosion and some hikers may not like that. by the way, i am all for not blowing up mountains and what not and keeping the rain forest a rain forest and stuff...but id rather people look at the scale on which we erode vs. other industries...like logging or mining. anyways she was not pleased with us at all but let us know that she to loves to ride mountain bikes and understands our love of the sport as well. i crossed her of as a nice lady with some ironic tendencies. i have about a million others like the guy who stood in the middle of the trail and had a stare off with a friend and i for about a minute before we decided to just blast past him. or the other guy on the horse who yelled at us from about 500yards away telling us to go back up the trail and hide so they could pass. or i could tell you about the good ones. like the kids. the kids LOVE DOWNHILL. allot! every time their are kids on the trail they awwwww over everything we do. I think it's super sick to see kids getting stoked on something they maybe have never seen before up close or ever. or the elderly people who want to know if we ever crash and hurt ourselves or if we could go up and do it again for a picture. hikers and bikers can work. if we both realize that even though maybe what the other is doing isn't our thing, the thing they do is theirs. and we should appreciate that. what you got my friend, was a d**che. not a hiker. a walking d**che who doesn't have anything as much fun as downhill in his life and wishes he did. he thought the poodle would do it for him...but it just doesn't, nothing beats downhill.
except maybe being an astronaut...that would be pretty sweet.
except maybe being an astronaut...that would be pretty sweet.
I'm pretty sure I know your guide...
Ya W is a funny guy. Loved his riding atire of jean shorts and a PBR hoodie.I'm pretty sure I know your guide...
Nothing but good times with him.
next time, wear a helmet cam, and put video on Youtube.
And let the fun start...
And let the fun start...
Brakedragging is bad for the trails, but not nearly as bad as nose plowing.
Nose ruts are dangerous.
Name one "posted dh trail" around here that isn't northstar.
I knew somehow that photo would get on here! I was trying something not done before on that trail. Takes a lot of explaining but I'll tell you the same thing I told Pat right after that happened.Brakedragging is bad for the trails, but not nearly as bad as nose plowing.
Nose ruts are dangerous.
My racing license may say Pro but I was riding like a total beginner!
And yes, that was not that good for the trail either!
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Yeah I'm aware of it. I built a part of it.
But I also ride my xc bike up it and there aren't any one directional indications anywhere.....unless they're brand new.
But by what authority would UNR and everyone else who's worked on it have to claim it's one directional?
I don't think anyone has that authority. But with the legitimacy of that trail being IMBA sanctioned, I thought that it was common knowledge that people haul ass down that trail, especially the upper part which you helped build. There are signs at the top of N-Trail proper about the obstacles and what not. Usually trails goin up don't have berms, rockgardens, and jumps. I also ride my xc bike out there alot, on the lower section. The guy I speak of was above the rock garden (walked it I would imagine) between it and the tabletop. We had just hit the tabletop and were carrying alot of speed, and there he was. On the lower section of that trail I always brake, and move for the xc'ers goin up. I had NEVER seen someone peddling up that section, nor do I know why he did. But he was a total d-bag to us about messing up his "progress".
Best response. The substantive opposition is mostly irrational, and some of the anti-bikers (not nec hikers) are really out there in kookooland (as are some bikers for sure).
Let them be the obvious kook, while you do exactly what you did, and they're disarmed -- their weapon being misportraing and vilifying cyclists.
Regardless of where I'm riding, or who I come across, I always slow/stop, look them in they eye and say "hello" -- even a curmudgeon will at least mutter a 'hi' back.
"I'm sorry you feel that way.." <-- absolutely perfect!
More and more studies show:
Hiking tends to have equal or greater impact on trail conditions than cycling- (barring skid happy riding, or riding (hiking too!) in the wet/mud which are truly weak.
The type of motion and speed -> Hikers are perceived as predators and displace wildlife; cyclists are perceived as large animals passing through and may startle, but have little negative impact in that respect.
Hikers are 5 times more likely to travel off trail or litter.
Let them be the obvious kook, while you do exactly what you did, and they're disarmed -- their weapon being misportraing and vilifying cyclists.
Regardless of where I'm riding, or who I come across, I always slow/stop, look them in they eye and say "hello" -- even a curmudgeon will at least mutter a 'hi' back.
"I'm sorry you feel that way.." <-- absolutely perfect!
More and more studies show:
Hiking tends to have equal or greater impact on trail conditions than cycling- (barring skid happy riding, or riding (hiking too!) in the wet/mud which are truly weak.
The type of motion and speed -> Hikers are perceived as predators and displace wildlife; cyclists are perceived as large animals passing through and may startle, but have little negative impact in that respect.
Hikers are 5 times more likely to travel off trail or litter.
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Have we met?
I hear you and I agree, MOST people around here know to look out for descenders on that trail. But it's a dangerous thing to start believing that something like that is a 'designated downhill only" trail. It's just not the case. It's another random trail in the desert and that's all.....even with IMBA driving their little doohicky around there a few years ago. People climbing it have every right to do that as anyone descending down it. A sense of entitlement one way or the other just leads to friction. Every year there's a new crop of UNR and high school kids getting into DH and it's wrong to beleive that a trail on peavine is subject to the same one way policies as northstar. I mean jesus, just look at the mess in santa barbara. We don't need those kinds of interactions here stemming from hikers OR the bikers.
You gotta admit though, it's pretty funny when people say something stupid like "you messed up my progress"
Those kinds of things make my day.
I hear ya, it can be dangerous to assume such things. I guess I should have high-fived him for peddling up a f*cking rock garden! Unfortunately we have not met. All my riding buddies live in South Lake, so I usually ride solo up peavine way....another contribution to this thread: Hikers in Nevada carry firearms, I came upon what look like a f*cking terrorist training camp out on the western part of Peavine Peak. Intoxicated "hikers" with heavy firepower. They could not believe my bike didn't have a motor...they seemed good spirited though.
Good ole' reno!
bay area
Dude, you're riding flats, why are your feet still on the pedals??? I ride SPD's with the tension cranked to full and I've never been attached that far into a crash...Brakedragging is bad for the trails, but not nearly as bad as nose plowing.
Nose ruts are dangerous.
Wrong...I'm clipped in.
Mallet 2 pedals and 661 SPD shoes.
Something else I've noticed. Hikers are WAAAYYY nicer to XC riders even when we're going down the trail. Just something interesting...
Yep, its the fullface nothing else. They just feel like since they can't see our face they can be dicks or something.