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Hillary -vs- Obama

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Ok, left leaning Monkeys... here's thread to outline your reasons for voting Hillary over Obama or vice versa..

I don’t have a dog in the fight, but I am curious as to reading your reasons.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
meh.. this is based on discussion I had with me mum last night.. she like Hillary but I suspect only because my mum was very active in the Women's Movement back in the 60's and 70's... and the thought of a female president appeals to her.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
i will vote for whichever one gets the nomination, but my views are more in line with hillary's. in particular, i favor her health care/insurance system. obama's wouldn't compel people to obtain insurance so we'd largely be left in the same situation imo.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
^^ agreed. if i understand obama's p.o.v. on healthcare, he would be perfectly fine w/ the uninsured seeking insurance only when they get sick.

so many things seem fundamentally wrong with that, even if we didn't have a healthcare system already so heavily burdened by the uninsured.
 

McGRP01

beer and bikes
Feb 6, 2003
7,797
0
Portland, OR
I honestly feel that Obama will bring about more change in this country than Hillary will. Clinton to me just seems to much like any other Washington politician. That being said, I will vote for whichever one wins the nomination over McCain.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,446
2,120
In my pants
I can't stand the number of people voting for hillary simply because of her gender.

If you agree with a candidate's views, fine, go with it. But I don't go out and vote for every guy with a 15" penis just because he happens to accurately represent my genetics on all socio-political matters.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
If you agree with a candidate's views, fine, go with it. But I don't go out and vote for every guy with a 15" penis just because he happens to accurately represent my genetics on all socio-political matters.
will you at least admit this may be the quickest way to get back the global r3sp3ct bush squandered?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
A change from the policies of the current administration.
i'm pretty sure if that didn't happen, it would be different from every preceding administration, which would ironically be yet another form of change. obama can't miss.

is a mantra used to soothe the masses. and it works every time it's practiced (just like abstinence).

"Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose."?
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
22,446
2,120
In my pants
will you at least admit this may be the quickest way to get back the global r3sp3ct bush squandered?
When it comes down to the line with a bunch of mysogonistic world leaders, whipping it out on the table loses its efficacy when 'it' is just a slab of beef curtains.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,634
2,348
Portland, OR
will you at least admit this may be the quickest way to get back the global r3sp3ct bush squandered?
On some strange level, I do think that he would be respected on a global scale more than McCain or Clinton. He is clearly a better public speaker than GWB, so that would be a huge improvement in itself.

That's not why I would rather vote for him, but it would be an added benefit.
 

Echo

crooked smile
Jul 10, 2002
11,818
1
Slacking at work
I think we're pretty much gonna be stuck with a corrupt politician no matter who wins, Obama, Hillary, McCain, the Huckster.

But Hillary just pisses me off. Maybe it's because I'm from NY, and I've seen firsthand how friggin' FAKE she is. Oh, you're a New Yorker now, since you bought a house here? People were calling it years ago, "she's only buying a house in NY so she can run for the Senate, and she's only running for the Senate so she can run for president."

But the Hillary sheep just keep saying how she's so sincere and she cares about the country, blah blah blah.

The only person she cares about is herself. Not that Obama is necessarily any better, but at as far as I know, he wasn't as friggin blatant about it.
 

J-Dubs

Monkey
Jul 10, 2006
702
0
Salem, MA
I think that Obama is the more ethical choice.
His campaign has been based more on positives than negatives. Hillary cosistently sends out mailers demonizing his financial policies. Bill dismisses his optimism as foolishness, and in turn tries to make people afraid and uncertain about Obama instead of promoting Hillary's strengths. The Clinton's seem to have been using fear to promote the idea that only someone who has traditional Washington experience can do the job.
I feel that the ethical reforms that Obama has already made are simply a sign of things to come from his would-be administration.
I think his promotion of unity within our own political system will be echoed on the world stage and certainly be a huge advantage in regaining the respect lost around the world.
The Clinton's 'devide and conquer' mindset symbolizes what has held back real reforms in our healthcare and education systems, and just because they say they want to change things, I'm not sure why I should believe it when they have already failed in the past and their strategy remains very similar.

What people have to remember in the discussion of 'what will get done when so-and-so is president' is that our system of checks and balances does not allow the president to make policy alone. It's the Senate and the House that ultimately makes the decisions of what will pass (with respect to the veto that is), and the Pres can only guide and encourage. Now who is more likely to unite the two sides in our split system enough to get reforms passed; someone who wants to emphasize the Us vs the Republicans like Hillary does, or someone who wants to reach across the isle for the greater good like Obama?
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,634
2,348
Portland, OR
I think no matter who wins, the first 4 years will be a sh!tstorm. But at least with the threat of Veto removed from a lot of good policies, Obama would have the best chance at getting things done and making changes happen.

There will be a lot of un-f@cking policies while trying to keep a sinking ship above water. No easy task for anyone.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
1
Denver
I think no matter who wins, the first 4 years will be a sh!tstorm. But at least with the threat of Veto removed from a lot of good policies, Obama would have the best chance at getting things done and making changes happen.

There will be a lot of un-f@cking policies while trying to keep a sinking ship above water. No easy task for anyone.
I'm not sure why anyone would want to be PotUS this time around.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,634
2,348
Portland, OR
or anytime really.. it must be all about the power and the ego.

I dont know why a sane person would want the office.
Don't forget the book deals, "consulting" fees, and life long speaking engagements. Figure for 4 years worth of work, you are set up for life.

Not sure that's even close to being enough for me to consider it, but for some, it must be.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,848
0
Orange County, CA
On some strange level, I do think that he would be respected on a global scale more than McCain or Clinton. He is clearly a better public speaker than GWB, so that would be a huge improvement in itself.
Obama was against the Iraq war. That alone is worth some global credibility.

Better speaking that GWB is setting the bar really low. Hell, Jean Chretien was a better speaking than Bush. I'd say that he is one of the better political speakers of the last 20 years, right up there with Clinton and Blair.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,634
2,348
Portland, OR
Obama was against the Iraq war. That alone is worth some global credibility.

Better speaking that GWB is setting the bar really low. Hell, Jean Chretien was a better speaking than Bush. I'd say that he is one of the better political speakers of the last 20 years, right up there with Clinton and Blair.
:stupid:

By better, I meant A LOT better. Hell, I'm better and I have never spoken publicly. Last night was some show "100 most hilarious TV moments" or some crap and #6 was GWB's "Fool me once..." speech. It was awesome.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
36,621
3,441
Sleazattle
I listened to an Obama speach last night. He sounded like a politician and didn't really say all that much but he didn't say anything that made me want to punch him in the face. I think that is a first for a politician.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
I listened to an Obama speach last night. He sounded like a politician and didn't really say all that much but he didn't say anything that made me want to punch him in the face. I think that is a first for a politician.

Obama is a master at delivering political speeches that dont say anything at all..
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Obama was against the Iraq war. That alone is worth some global credibility.
Well considering Obama wasn't in the senate to make that vote on whether or not to go to war with Iraq, and considering his voting block, I'd say of course he's be against it now... (from ABCNews)

"I think what people might point to is our different assessments of the war in Iraq," Obama said at the time, "although I’m always careful to say that I was not in the Senate, so perhaps the reason I thought it was such a bad idea was that I didn't have the benefit of U.S. intelligence."

:p

But otherwise on Iraq he and Hillary are the same:

In fact, Obama's Senate voting record on Iraq is nearly identical to Clinton's. Over the two years Obama has been in the Senate, the only Iraq-related vote on which they differed was the confirmation earlier this year of General George Casey to be Chief of Staff of the Army, which Obama voted for and Clinton voted against. Just last week, in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos, Obama conceded that his position on the war is not the "polar opposite" of Clinton's.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,640
4
SF, CA
Stinkle will love this one, but while we're talking about someone getting the vote or not based on the superficialities of race and gender...

A friend who is doing her research in Ethiopia was talking about the global value of having a mixed-race president. She described how when she shows pictures of her American friends to her Ethiopian colleagues, they point to the Asian or Black ones and ask, "where is he from?" When she says "Minnesota," they say "no, but where did he COME from?" The idea and image of America the Melting Pot is totally lost to a good portion of the world. They see our TV and they see our politics, and they think Americans are white. Regardless of actual politics (there's the part that should chafe stinkles jumblies) there would be a huge boost to America's global image and diplomatic efforts simply from not having GW and Cheney (or Billary) be the (rich, white) face of America.
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,007
149
The Cleft of Venus
Stinkle will love this one, but while we're talking about someone getting the vote or not based on the superficialities of race and gender...

A friend who is doing her research in Ethiopia was talking about the global value of having a mixed-race president. She described how when she shows pictures of her American friends to her Ethiopian colleagues, they point to the Asian or Black ones and ask, "where is he from?" When she says "Minnesota," they say "no, but where did he COME from?" The idea and image of America the Melting Pot is totally lost to a good portion of the world. They see our TV and they see our politics, and they think Americans are white. Regardless of actual politics (there's the part that should chafe stinkles jumblies) there would be a huge boost to America's global image and diplomatic efforts simply from not having GW and Cheney (or Billary) be the (rich, white) face of America.

Of course Obama is about as black as I am hispanic...

And not to mention he didn't exactly live in the ghetto and go to inner city schools... hell he had a hard time getting acceptance from his urban peers for the longest time.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
29,634
2,348
Portland, OR
Of course Obama is about as black as I am hispanic...

And not to mention he didn't exactly live in the ghetto and go to inner city schools... hell he had a hard time getting acceptance from his urban peers for the longest time.
I think the point is he doesn't look like a rich white guy. Unless you are saying you wear a poncho and sombrero, then I understand.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
Of course Obama is about as black as I am hispanic...

And not to mention he didn't exactly live in the ghetto and go to inner city schools... hell he had a hard time getting acceptance from his urban peers for the longest time.
why must being black mean conforming to your personal stereotype of black people? (and why does the black community continue to support this nonsense?)

a successful, well-educated black man is still a black man.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,183
1
TN
why must being black mean conforming to your personal stereotype of black people? (and why does the black community continue to support this nonsense?)

a successful, well-educated black man is still a black man.
Fo' shizzle!
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,222
85
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
why must being black mean conforming to your personal stereotype of black people? (and why does the black community continue to support this nonsense?)

a successful, well-educated black man is still a black man.

Pffffft.....says the "so-called" japanese guy....

Ah-so....meesah Toshi-san...so velly velly solly.....Ahh....a Fujistu nakamura toyota ninja shogun teryaki origami.....**GONNNNG**....(whirring and snapping sound of incessant photo-taking)
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,033
1
Denver
Pffffft.....says the "so-called" japanese guy....

Ah-so....meesah Toshi-san...so velly velly solly.....Ahh....a Fujistu nakamura toyota ninja shogun teryaki origami.....**GONNNNG**....(whirring and snapping sound of incessant photo-taking)
hahaahahha :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're gonna get banned :rofl: :busted:
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
27,246
2,117
Pffffft.....says the "so-called" japanese guy....

Ah-so....meesah Toshi-san...so velly velly solly.....Ahh....a Fujistu nakamura toyota ninja shogun teryaki origami.....**GONNNNG**....(whirring and snapping sound of incessant photo-taking)
luckily for me the japanese stereotype is of being short (check), educated (check), polite (mostly check :D), and taking lots of photos from a big SLR (check). you'd have to ask my girlfriend to see if i conform to the other, not so complimentary japanese stereotype.

:pirate2: