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Hipster Sunday rider seeks new frame

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Harry BarnOwl, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. Harry BarnOwl

    Harry BarnOwl Monkey

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    So it's 2013 and I'm still riding a sunday because they're so obscure out you can't even buy them any more...but I'm starting a new job soon and will finally have the money to put down the old pony and get something shiny and potentially carbon.

    I see Evil are back in the game and have heard nothing but good things about them, and no one can argue that they look pretty nice too - although I haven't had the chance to ride one (and probably won't get a chance) so I'll be buying one in the hope that it'll be good.

    I'm also considering a carbon v10. I had a brief spin on one and while I never liked the aluminium v10's, I can tell that the carbon version likes to go fast and I was impressed with the way it handled, although it is obviously very different to my current bike.

    So has anyone ridden both (or even all three)? Are there any defining features that could sway it either way in terms of how you ride them? Looking at the geo numbers, the Evil is closest to my sunday, but there's no question that the v10 is a capable bike and I'm willing to try something new.

    Any thoughts/experiences opinions welcome. Thanks.
     

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  2. rpet

    rpet Turbo Monkey

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    o rly?
     
  3. demo 9

    demo 9 Turbo Monkey

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    two weeks of good CS!

    Imo i would get a V10, give the evil a year or so, just remember, the revolt was totally awesome when it came out. I think the evil is pretty sweet, but i want to see a season under them first. I would go V10, and why not carbon. CV10 over here
     
  4. jrock&co

    jrock&co Chimp

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    Evils look sick, ive talked to an onwer of one whom said it works great.
    That said id proly give em a world cup season to test and prove em...
    Look at the sunday linkage progression. .2 years to improve etc.
    V10s were just on chainlove for cheap..sc always has the virtual garage sales.
     
  5. Banga

    Banga Monkey

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    If you like your Sunday then look into Turner. A new and improved Sunday really.
     
  6. chup29

    chup29 Chimp

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    i owned a sunday back in the day, had a v10, was on the order list for an original evil revolt and ended up with an m9. I loved my sunday but i had some custom valving in the shock to help with the midstroke support and my HA was a little slacker. it rode amazing and i loved the thing to death but it eventually needed to go, i kept having to go down the the hardware store for random washers to keep the rear end tight and new bolts that the guys at the store set up a special section just for me with all the parts i needed in one tiny corner of the store. It was nice having a bike that i could completely rebuild from the hardware store though. I loved my older style v10 but felt it wasnt efficient enough using its travel, the m9 fixed all the issues i had with my v10 and remains the one of my favorite riding all time bikes. A bunch of my friends rock the carbon v10 now and they all like it, i feel like my issues with the frame were all solved with the latest version. The evil is a special bike, it corners like a dream, and its pretty rare so not many people have one. All the frames i rode before putting in my order rode amazing, its a shame they had so many issues getting straight frames from the factory. It seems they have fixed that though so i would go with the evil, trust me - you wont be sorry - it felt the most similar to my modified sunday but if you want to stay dw link, the dw turners ride pretty amazing too - youll be stoked on any of the choices listed
     
  7. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    Honestly, they are night and day different other than the similar wheel path. My Sunday was like a DH BMX bike handling wise and crazy good on local squirmy tracks.

    DHR is a work of art that absolutely balls out flies and is capable of maybe finishing a run without me even on it. :D
     
  8. supercow

    supercow Monkey

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    The v10 is too posh for you Harry, get down and dirty with the Evil I think :)
     
  9. HardtailHack

    HardtailHack used an iron once

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    Huh, what happened to the Zerode/s? We need a guessing game thread about how many bikes you have had in the last five years, without you the bike industry would be dead.
     
  10. Harry BarnOwl

    Harry BarnOwl Monkey

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    Cheers for all the comments. I'm going to fort william for their opening weekend on the 4th, and there's a demo day with some santa cruz bikes there. Hopefully I'll get another chance to test a v10C there.

    DHR was an option I considered before, but I'm a tart and I want a carbon bike.

    Not me mate, no longer a scabby student starting from july! Having said that I think you're probably right, I'd just love to try one before I blow 2 and a half grand on a new frame that I've never ridden before!

    Also, I think chup is right, it's probably hard to go wrong with the current selection of downhill bikes so I may as well just go with the one that looks the prettiest.
     
  11. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

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    I'd say you could consider the banshee legend. The susp has some similar characteristics even if the legend is a bit more of a plow bike. Though if FT. William is your place than it's a great choice imho.
     
  12. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    I spent years on a Sunday, have spent a lot of time on the V10C (various setups and sizes) and currently own the Undead.

    A good rider will rip on any of them, but I found the difference between the Undead and the V10C significant enough that I'd recommend the former if you have a choice. The Evil has far more modern geometry, has far less variation in dynamic geometry (which makes for a more stable ride), and in general I just found it a lot more comfortable to go fast on than the V10C. The only place the SC edges out the Evil is in bump performance IF you run it in 10" mode. Even then it's not significant enough to tide it over in my opinion, but if you run it in 8.5" mode (as most pros seem to be doing these days), the Undead is hands down a better bike.

    That's not to say they aren't both excellent bikes, and I'm probably amplifying the differences for the sake of putting them on paper. But having spent plenty of time on both, I know which I'd pick every time.

    As for a comparison to the Sunday - the Sunday still edges out the Undead (and virtually every other DH bike) in acceleration, however the Undead pedals quite well and still better than the V10 etc. In every other respect it's a significant improvement over the Sunday - the Evil handles square edges noticeably better, and has a lot more pop - probably my two primary complaints with the Sunday.

    That's my very honest take on it. The only other person I know on here with significant time on all those frames (and has actually owned them all) is Raingauge. It would be worth getting his opinion also.

    However the most important thing is sizing so don't forget that. I loved the Evil because it offered a size between a traditional medium and large (L, in their S/M/L/XL spectrum), which fit me perfectly and gave me the little extra space I needed over a medium Sunday (plus a solid amount of extra wheelbase that I was craving). You may well find that a different bike ticks that box for you, in which case that's the way to go.
     
  13. supercow

    supercow Monkey

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    How tall are you Udi?
    I thought that the Undead's sizing is off, much like the Devinci wilson. Feels like the Medium is too small and would need a Large @ me being 5.9".

    Harry, you being a bit Hobbit-like, the Med would most likely be spot on.
     
    #13 -   Apr 26, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2013
  14. Tomasis

    Tomasis Monkey

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    Me, Sunday owner think that Evil frame is super sexy!

    I would choose that over other options.
     
  15. Banga

    Banga Monkey

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    That was just my experience/thoughts of going from the Sunday to the Turner, similar but more "polished". Try going from a Foes mono to a Sunday, that is night and day different!
     
  16. Harry BarnOwl

    Harry BarnOwl Monkey

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    Thanks very much for this Udi. I agree with you on both negative points about the sunday. Whenever I try someone else's bike I always notice how much easier it is to get into the air, despite trying a variety of shim stack setups. It is remarkable how well the sunday accelerates, but I do feel like I get thrown around a bit in rock gardens and it would be nice if it had a bit more pop. Despite being older than 90% of my friend's bikes, my sunday still gets complimented on how stable it is and how well it corners, so if the Evil is anything close to it in terms of those characteristics, then I'm sold.

    What you said about dynamic geometry for the v10 also makes a lot of sense to me, and I think that was my main gripe with all of the v10's that I tried. Your point about sizing is interesting, as my medium sunday is maybe a little bit cramped. Deon, I'm actually 5"9 as well so I'm not sure if I should go for a medium or a large - having said that I think I prefer a slightly smaller bike so the medium is probably the best shout. My mate's got a large Wilson and I think the top tube was just a wee bit too long for my t-rex sized arms.
     
  17. supercow

    supercow Monkey

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    I call horse poop on you being 5.9! :) ( stilettos don't count)
    Just going by numbers, the large Undead is the same size as my Medium Makulu so I personally would have opted for a Lrge undead as I prefer them big .
     
    #17 -   Apr 27, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2013
  18. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    6'. Somewhat doubt you'd fit a large at 5'9, I vaguely recall addressing this once in a question of yours.

    It's not that the sizing is 'off', it's just a side effect of the slacker geometry (62.9* HA in slack setting without any fork extension) - unfortunately the same applies to similar geo bikes like the new Gambler. You just can't build a bike that slack and have a geo chart that matches 64-65* bikes unfortunately.

    I just checked the numbers, a medium Makulu has 405mm/581mm for reach stack, which gives a c^2 value of 708mm (this is essentially the best way to compare hand-foot distance on bikes). A medium Undead is 712mm, and the large comes in at 723mm, compared to a large Makulu at 725-726. These numbers are surprisingly similar. Both the Large frames have a wheelbase of approximately 47.7" which is a 1.2" jump over your current frame, and in the case of the Undead will be more wheel in front of the handlebar due to the slacker HA, and may be difficult to weight unless you have very long arms for your 5'9.

    The Makulu is actually a little 'different' itself because the WB numbers are very close to the Undead with similar hand-foot lengths also, even though the head angle is over a degree steeper - which to me suggested that either the chainstays were long (they aren't, I checked) or the BB is significantly higher than the Undead - which I'm fairly sure is what it is - vaguely confirmed by the lower 'stack' number on the MW.

    Classic example of how all bikes are going to be different, and it takes some poking around to find the little details. It may be the case that there isn't a size that fits you, best to ride and see.
     
  19. demo 9

    demo 9 Turbo Monkey

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    ive got the zerode, i highly recommend it, but he didnt ask about it, he has it down to 2 bikes, rather than just push what i like i am giving him my opinion of the 2 he likes.

    feel free to start the thread though, i bet ya i can win it
     
  20. prestonDH

    prestonDH Chimp

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    I dont know how reliable this may be, but I own an evil undead and begore it I had a 2008 scott gambler. The gambler was a beast and would eat up anything in its way but dont try an win any drag races on it. The undead is unbelievable, it is insanely fast. Super light, that may be because my gambler was 45+lbs, my undead weighs in at 36lbs, it gobbles everything up and just asks for more, it jumps very well and easy. It corners well and the adjustable bb and ha help to adjust what track you are on. Just my 2 cents.
     
  21. atrokz

    atrokz Turbo Monkey

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    Devinci Wilson? Ticks all the right boxes (carbon, DW tuned, etc) and has shown itself to be capable of anything.

    It seems to be everything the Sunday wanted to be, and then some.
     
  22. Pegboy

    Pegboy Turbo Monkey

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    I rode the lift up with DW a year or so ago, he said that if you like the Sunday, go with the Pivot Pheonix. He basically said that the Pivot is the way the Sunday was intended to be (but fell a little short due to originally be designed around the 5th element).

    I have experience on the Sunday but not the Pivot. Anyone have any input on the Pheonix?
     
  23. bizutch

    bizutch Delicate CUSTOM flower

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    DW only walk bikes. ;)
     
  24. bismojo

    bismojo Monkey

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    This is interesting thread..

    I Would like to hear direct comparison also.. between sunday, phoenix, dhr, undead, wilson.. And maybe summum?

    I ride polygon (love it, subjective reasons) but still have and love my slackened rc4'ed sunday, was thinking of getting either phoenix or dhr but one is too heavy (and dont quite like the cable route, axle orientation, lower shock mud hole, etc) and the other is just looks scary thin (and mud trap around shock area, short HT but must use non zerostack, etc) - and now the undead spherical bearing issues, dont really like the wilson's weight and 10.5 shock also IMHO. Its always like two step forward, one backward.

    Seriously, i know it's never easy to design a bike and harder to produce one (i'm a product designer/lecturer myself) but with sunday was so ahead of time, is there any option for 'the next' one?

    The recipe is there.. Lighter sunday with slightly more end stroke support, masculine industrial look, big and easy to find bearings, silent chain and good mud protector, tidy cable routing close to pivot points.. Oh yeah and good price LOL

    @udi @anyone inputs wanted, thx.