[Damn True]

A couple of days ago we captured an Al-Queda operative in Iraq who it seems was responsible for a great number of the bombings that have taken place since the liberation began. Yet no mention of the fact that the lefites have been saying for months that there is no proof of Al-Queda connections in Iraq.

...and

For the last couple of weeks the lefites have been saying that the Rep. plan to overhaul Social Security is not needed. Yet there is no mention of the statements by lefties (including the owner of the Chappaquidick car wash) just a few years ago that Social Security was in crisis and that the fund will run out before most Americans reach the age to use it.

hmmmm

 

[N8 v2.0]

A couple of days ago we captured an Al-Queda operative in Iraq who it seems was responsible for a great number of the bombings that have taken place since the liberation began. Yet no mention of the fact that the lefites have been saying for months that there is no proof of Al-Queda connections in Iraq.

...and

For the last couple of weeks the lefites have been saying that the Rep. plan to overhaul Social Security is not needed. Yet there is no mention of the statements by lefties (including the owner of the Chappaquidick car wash) just a few years ago that Social Security was in crisis and that the fund will run out before most Americans reach the age to use it.

hmmmm

The mainstream media is fast alseep...

 

[ohio]

A couple of days ago we captured an Al-Queda operative in Iraq who it seems was responsible for a great number of the bombings that have taken place since the liberation began. Yet no mention of the fact that the lefites have been saying for months that there is no proof of Al-Queda connections in Iraq.

I have no knowledge regarding the SS case, but as for the above, the claim is that there was no significant connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. That claim has nothing to do with Al Qaeda entering and operating in Iraq after Saddam's overthrow. Of course they came to Iraq once we invaded... it's a much shorter and easier trip than coming all the way to the US to kill Americans.

So good try, but a swing and a miss.

 

[MMike]

But the Al Qaeda HAS also come to do terrorist-like things.....ergo.... DAMN YOU AMERICA AND YOUR TERRORIST WAYS!!!

 

[mack]

Who cares, Saddam was a bastard and deserved everything he got coming to him. Theres no crying over spilt spoiled milk.

 

[jaydee]

Who cares, Saddam was a bastard and deserved everything he got coming to him. Theres no crying over spilt spoiled milk.

It's not Saddam who's paying the price now. It's all the innocent Iraqis who are trying to stay alive and not get between all the morons all around them who are trying to blow each other up.

 

[Damn True]

I have no knowledge regarding the SS case, but as for the above, the claim is that there was no significant connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda. That claim has nothing to do with Al Qaeda entering and operating in Iraq after Saddam's overthrow. Of course they came to Iraq once we invaded... it's a much shorter and easier trip than coming all the way to the US to kill Americans.

So good try, but a swing and a miss.

You know that the guy entered after the liberation began?

What is your source?

Seems to me that if an Al-Queda operative can move freely within the country and work with and for the terrorists within that country he must have had some sort of existing relationship. I can't imagine the guy just knocking on the door of a building marked "Terrorist HQ" and offering his services.

 

[Silver]

You know that the guy entered after the liberation began?

What is your source?

Seems to me that if an Al-Queda operative can move freely within the country and work with and for the terrorists within that country he must have had some sort of existing relationship. I can't imagine the guy just knocking on the door of a building marked "Terrorist HQ" and offering his services.

You don't understand what al Qaeda is, do you?

And, if I may point out, there is zero evidence that shows he was active in Iraq before we invaded. Or maybe you have a source that shows that al-Zarqawi was active in Iraq with Saddam's blessing? Here's a link from the Beeb about the man himself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3483089.stm

Not exactly a strong tie to get Osama and Saddam into bed together, is it?

Slightly off topic, but I would have thought you would have liked to see Sami Mohammed Ali Said al-Jaaf get away, after all, he did blow up the UN building.

 

[stevew]

(including the owner of the Chappaquidick car wash)

The resident authority on water torture.

 

[ohio]

You know that the guy entered after the liberation began?

What is your source?

You know that the guy entered before the liberation? What is your source?

Seems to me that if an Al-Queda operative can move freely within the country and work with and for the terrorists within that country he must have had some sort of existing relationshi

Wait. You're trying to tell me that this man (an Al Qaeda operative) having an existing relationship with non-Iraqis (other Al Qaeda operatives) that flooded into a country AFTER the fall of it's leader (Saddam) is evidence of a link between him and and that leader (Saddam)?

Oh, I see. Along the same line of thinking, my relationship with alumni of my school that are also in San Francisco is evidence of my close ties to former Mayor Willy Brown.

 

[Silver]

A couple of days ago we captured an Al-Queda operative in Iraq who it seems was responsible for a great number of the bombings that have taken place since the liberation began. Yet no mention of the fact that the lefites have been saying for months that there is no proof of Al-Queda connections in Iraq.

I'm not going to even bother with the second part of your original post, but reading the first part again I was stuck by how disingenuous it is.

There's no proof that Saddam and al-Qaeda had a working relationship (I'd say connections, but ohio dealt with the problem of doing that...you'd just define a connection as both being on our ****list. And, once again, if connections are a good reason to invade, Saudi Arabia should be a smoking thermonuclear hole by now.)

Now, did that nuance slip your mind, or did you just ignore it?

 

[Damn True]

Im not saying that this guys presance in Iraq proves an Al-Queda connection to the Hussein regime. All Im saying is that his presance allows for the possibility. I obdviously have no more proof that there is a connection than you have that there is no connection.

 

[Toshi]

Im not saying that this guys presance in Iraq proves an Al-Queda connection to the Hussein regime. All Im saying is that his presance allows for the possibility. I obdviously have no more proof that there is a connection than you have that there is no connection.

given that gwb would have loved to see a connection and that he undoubtedly had his flunkies searching high and low for such a connection, and that NOTHING turned up out of that hunt, i'd say that you're on the wrong side here.

 

[$tinkle]

just a thought:

i believe the nexus has been shown twix saddam & al-qeada via Abdul Rahman. he was the bombmaker in the 1993 wtc attack who was given safe harbor from saddam after the fbi screwed up & lost him.

not to even come close to suggesting coordination twix saddam & 9/11; the evidence just isn't there (as much as i really, really, really want it to be).

 

[N8 v2.0]

just a thought:

i believe the nexus has been shown twix saddam & al-qeada via Abdul Rahman. he was the bombmaker in the 1993 wtc attack who was given safe harbor from saddam after the fbi screwed up & lost him.

not to even come close to suggesting coordination twix saddam & 9/11; the evidence just isn't there (as much as i really, really, really want it to be).

Well, there's a definate-proveable tie between Iraq and Al_Q now... so no worries.

 

[ohio]

Well, there's a definate-proveable tie between Iraq and Al_Q now... so no worries.

I want you to read one page back, where someone (I can't remember who) pointed out that in question is the connection between SADDAM and Al Qaeda. That is not the same thing as a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Unless you think that Saddam is a country on the Persian Gulf next to Iran.

 

[Westy]

Come on over 1000 soldiers were killed in Iraq, that is reason enough to invade.

 

[Toshi]

Come on over 1000 soldiers were killed in Iraq, that is reason enough to invade.

. it seems that neoconservatives are much more guilty of relativism when it comes to absolute truth than the supposed champions of it, the liberals.

 

[Silver]

. it seems that neoconservatives are much more guilty of relativism when it comes to absolute truth than the supposed champions of it, the liberals.

And with that, I have a good reason to finally link to this

http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=18427

 

[$tinkle]

sweet moses & judas priest that's the funniest dad-blerned thing i've seen this week!!!

that's right up there w/ uncle ted wagging his finger at gonzalez about "water boarding"

 

[Damn True]

I want you to read one page back, where someone (I can't remember who) pointed out that in question is the connection between SADDAM and Al Qaeda. That is not the same thing as a connection between Iraq and Al Qaeda. Unless you think that Saddam is a country on the Persian Gulf next to Iran.

I'll allow for the assertion that Al-Q presance in Iraq does not mean that Iraqis have a connection to Al-Q (except for Zarkawis (sp?) animals that were aiding the bastards in their efforts) but that perhaps there is a connection to the Sunni govt or to extremist elements.
But saying that Al-Q presance proves NO connection within Iraq is like saying that Al-Q had no connection to the Talliban.

If a govt. supports elements like that, or tacitly apporves of them by allowing their presance they are no different than the terrorist themselves.

Can you put aside the "I dislike Bush so I must attempt to find the negative in everything that happens." long enough to see the disingenuousness of the media in their failure to do the same?

 

[Damn True]

....and while we are on the subject of the media failure to point things out how about 'ol Ted Kennedy refering to Iraq as a "Quagmire that will prove to be Bush's Viet-Nam"?

Failure to mention the 15 year quagmire that his family started in the Kennedy Viet-Nam.

 

[Silver]

I'll allow for the assertion that Al-Q presance in Iraq does not mean that Iraqis have a connection to Al-Q (except for Zarkawis (sp?) animals that were aiding the bastards in their efforts) but that perhaps there is a connection to the Sunni govt or to extremist elements.
But saying that Al-Q presance proves NO connection within Iraq is like saying that Al-Q had no connection to the Talliban.

If a govt. supports elements like that, or tacitly apporves of them by allowing their presance they are no different than the terrorist themselves.

Can you put aside the "I dislike Bush so I must attempt to find the negative in everything that happens." long enough to see the disingenuousness of the media in their failure to do the same?

What color is the sky in your world? Seriously.

Osama-Living in Afghanistan with Omar's blessing and protection (and probably a little co-planning as well)

Zarqawi-Maybe in northern Iraq (the part where Saddam had little control, remember the no fly zone?) becomes active after the invasion, and pledges allegiance to al-Qaeda in October.

2001? Nope. 2002? Nope.

October 2004.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/17/al.zarqawi.statement/

A relationship after we invaded hardly shores up your position in any way, shape, or form.

 

[ohio]

But saying that Al-Q presance proves NO connection within Iraq is like saying that Al-Q had no connection to the Talliban.

You're having some difficulty understanding the negatives and positives in thyis logic tree.

I never said that Al Qaeda presence proves no connection. I said an Al Qaeda presence does not prove a connection* . I'm not going to explain the difference. If you can't figure it out for yourself, there's no point in continuing with this thread.

*in fact I feel it doesn't even indicate a connection, let alone prove one... but I never said that it proves no connection. that's just silly. we all know you can't prove a negative.

 

[Damn True]

A new product for the left

 

[Toshi]

true, why don't you post something substantive to counter the arguments raised against you? even n8 (occasionally!) posts content more worthwhile than _that_.

 

[ohio]

A new product for the left

And likewise for the right:

 

[Silver]

Ah, blinders! Funny.

You've been slapped around like an addict who owes a loanshark money again, and that's the best you can do?

Pictures make sense, since apparently you can't read links or arguments.

 

[$tinkle]

I said an Al Qaeda presence does not prove a connection* .

*in fact I feel it doesn't even indicate a connection, let alone prove one... but I never said that it proves no connection. that's just silly. we all know you can't prove a negative.

just read this over at globalsecurity.org:

(U) In both Iraqi Support for Terrorism and Iraq and al-Qaida: Interpreting a Murky Relationship, the CIA reviewed the possible involvement by Iraq in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The alleged involvement was based upon three connections to Iraq that surfaced during the investigation of individuals involved in the attack. First, Ramzi Yousef, the leader of the attack, entered the U.S. on a phony Iraqi passport and fled the U.S. with Kuwaiti documentation that Iraq may have been able to provide following its 1990-91 occupation of that country. The CIA found that stolen Iraqi passports were common at this time, however, and there was no indication that Iraq had used Kuwaiti documentation in any other intelligence operation. Second, Abdul Rahman Yasin, a fugitive from the attack, is of Iraqi descent, and in 1993, he fled to Iraq with Iraqi assistance. Iraq held Yasin in custody since that time, explaining that it feared the U.S. would misrepresent Yasin's role in the attack to implicate Iraq. The CIA has not provided any additional information to the Committee regarding Yasin or his involvement in this attack, and his whereabouts currently are unknown by the CIA. Third, convicted bomber Mohammed Salameh, had a maternal uncle who held a post in Palestinian Authority leader Yassir Arafat's Fatah organization while it had offices in Iraq. Iraq allowed Salameh's Palestinian uncle to emigrate to the West Bank in 1995, however, something the CTC analysts judged the regime would not have been expected to do if he had been involved in the 1993 World Trade Center attacks.

i'm just hard pressed to dismiss this as a casual (vice causal) relationship. dictators usually have a very tight reign on their populace's comings & goings, as well as affiliations w/ convenient allies. Something was going on, just not sure what.

as it still stands - and will forever i believe - there is no connection between saddam & 9/11; but there is a nexus of AQ & iraq (however tenuous). *edit: i meant back then, not now *

source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter12-p.htm
(gotta love the redaction throughout the report)

 

[-BB-]

A couple of days ago we captured an Al-Queda operative in Iraq who it seems was responsible for a great number of the bombings that have taken place since the liberation began. Yet no mention of the fact that the lefites have been saying for months that there is no proof of Al-Queda connections in Iraq.

...and

For the last couple of weeks the lefites have been saying that the Rep. plan to overhaul Social Security is not needed. Yet there is no mention of the statements by lefties (including the owner of the Chappaquidick car wash) just a few years ago that Social Security was in crisis and that the fund will run out before most Americans reach the age to use it.

hmmmm

I'm sorry True... but this is probably the stupidest thing you have posted.
(The Al Queda part, not the social security)
It is so dumb that it diesn't even warrant a response.

 

[Macrider]

I'm sorry True... but this is probably the stupidest thing you have posted.
(The Al Queda part, not the social security)
It is so dumb that it diesn't even warrant a response.

I don't know, I think the social security part is right up there...

so if NOTHING changes, social security will run out of money in 2042 (or by a better estimate 2052) - THIS is the reason to dismantle it now?

and if we were to raise the payroll tax 1.5%, we'd NEVER get to that point?
and we are the worst nation in the idustrialized world at saving our $ - but we "HAVE TO GET RID OF SOCIAL SECURITY RIGHT NOW"!?

I'd say that's almost as stupid as trying to twist the incredibly tenuous links between Al Queda and Iraq into a reason for all the death and wasted $

At this point the best neo-con defense would be to simply say "look, we didn't like Saddam, we couldn't go after the House of Saud since they have all the oil and Haliburton needed some more cash - get over it!" - at least they wouldn't have to busy themselves defending a war based on lies

 

[$tinkle]

...oil and Haliburton needed some more cash - get over it!" - at least they wouldn't have to busy themselves defending a war based on lies

let's see: in the span of - what - 2/3 hrs among a handful of threads you called bush a liar (1), equated right-wingers to hitler (2), and for the hattrick invoked the good name of halliburton (3)

give this monkey a custom title!!! something like "progressive moonbat", or "righteously indignant", or the alarmist "BUSH LIED!!! I DON'T RIDE!!!"

 

[El Santo]

let's see: in the span of - what - 2/3 hrs among a handful of threads you called bush a liar (1), equated right-wingers to hitler (2), and for the hattrick invoked the good name of halliburton (3)

give this monkey a custom title!!! something like "progressive moonbat", or "righteously indignant", or the alarmist "BUSH LIED!!! I DON'T RIDE!!!"

small minds talk about people

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

let's see: in the span of - what - 2/3 hrs among a handful of threads you called bush a liar (1), equated right-wingers to hitler (2), and for the hattrick invoked the good name of halliburton (3)

give this monkey a custom title!!! something like "progressive moonbat", or "righteously indignant", or the alarmist "BUSH LIED!!! I DON'T RIDE!!!"

 

[$tinkle]

(speaking of obtuse)

good comic lexi; let me know how howard dean bolsters the DNC & "makes your case"

 

[Damn True]

just read this over at globalsecurity.org:i'm just hard pressed to dismiss this as a casual (vice causal) relationship. dictators usually have a very tight reign on their populace's comings & goings, as well as affiliations w/ convenient allies. Something was going on, just not sure what.

as it still stands - and will forever i believe - there is no connection between saddam & 9/11; but there is a nexus of AQ & iraq (however tenuous). *edit: i meant back then, not now *

source: http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/library/congress/2004_rpt/iraq-wmd-intell_chapter12-p.htm
(gotta love the redaction throughout the report)

I hate Bush therefore this must be false and cannot possibly represent anything that even remotely might refute the assertions of my personal Christ, Michael Moore.

Repeat my mantra quickly.
"Bush is bad, Bush is bad, Bush is bad, Bush is bad."

Way to ignore reality folks.

 

[The Kadvang]

"BUSH LIED!!! I DON'T RIDE!!!"

Completely independent of political views I don't think you should be critizing anyone for "not riding" as you are one of the biggest political forum non-riders that come to mind, Changleen among them.

...yes, you and Changleen have something in common.

 

[Damn True]

So the Social Security thing.....no comment?

 

[$tinkle]

Completely independent of political views I don't think you should be critizing anyone for "not riding" as you are one of the biggest political forum non-riders that come to mind, Changleen among them.

...yes, you and Changleen have something in common.

you want some dirt or some snow from my riding this past week? (my bullit isn't so shiny like some other kids here).

hell, i even commute on my scalpel up to twice a week.

broadband + wicked fast typing + deadlines met for the past week = PD blustering.


you got me thinking: maybe my next rig should be bluetooth compatible

 

[MMike]

True..for the love of god....stay down man! Stay down!!