[jonKranked]

The CVT idea got me thinking about repurposing a NuVinci hub as a gearbox, kinda like GT did a long time ago with the IT-1. Either my Google-Fu isn't very effective or nobody else has traveled that road before. Maybe the 2.4kg weight penalty has something to do with it .

wonder if it'd be an easy swap into a zerode....... (unlikely, but fun to think about)

 

[Electric_City]

12B is about the only thing in those pics that makes sense to me.

 

[xy9ine]

the nuvinci is shit tho, is it not? super heavy, inefficient, not very durable...

have to say, the gearhub in the frame option (zerode / lahar) is still a pretty damn effective solution. using a (somewhat) readily available hub in a configuration that doesn't restrict your input / output locations (like pinion / effigear) is pretty neat.

 

[ianjenn]

I don't know what happened to the DIRT magazine...

 

[Scrub]

I remember a Japanese guy having a yellow RN01 at the Worlds Masters back in '06. I don't remember much more other than seeing the Honda team racing the NORBA's, lots of buzz in the pits.

 

[slimshady]

I remember a Japanese guy having a yellow RN01 at the Worlds Masters back in '06. I don't remember much more other than seeing the Honda team racing the NORBA's, lots of buzz in the pits.

The Japanese team had Kayaba suspension instead of Showa IIRC. And also the brakes were different.

 

[buckoW]

I actually forgot to bring the other magazines into the studio today. Maybe I will text the wife see if she can drop them by on the way to work.

Also @buckoW I am expecting that transmission in the next two weeks. I can get you the mailing address. Can the exoskeleton match a Pinion? Just for ease of mounting. Thanks

ok, i’m on it.

I've asked Brendan and Cyril Kurtz about those bikes and the team but they were both juniors at the time and mostly spoke about language barriers (between the mechanics/engineers and the riders). Brendan said the bb was very high and the head angle steep. I think he was on an Orange before which was pretty low and slack for the time. It seems like they were kept in the dark or they weren’t very technical at the time. Also, they weren’t allowed to adjust anything themselves. They had to ask the mechanic to do it then he would take measurements and make notes.

i wish I could get more stories out of them...

 

[mgy]

When I first worked with Greg he was still riding for Honda. In my contract with Greg (written by his manager at the time, Martin Whiteley) I wasn't allowed to touch Greg's Honda. I did ride it around the parking lot once when Greg went to the bathroom, I thought it was cramped (really short reach) and had a steep head angle for a downhill bike.

While coaching with me that weekend he casually backfliped the Honda on one of the big tables on the Angel Fire 4x track (is first time hitting that jump!).

When Greg moved to the Santa Cruz Syndicate I said to him, tell me the truth, you like that V10 way more than the Honda, the V10 is a better bike. Ever the professional he replied, they are different, on the Honda I had to be very precise on the V10 I can get away with missing a line and the bike will save me (or something to that effect, this was a decade or more ago).

Greg said the program ended when the founder of the Downhill Bike Project got a promotion at Honda (became head of motocross design?) and there was no one else at Honda that wanted to take on the project.

The guy at the 2006 World Masters Isao Ida, a Japanese motocross legend. He won the 50 to 54 class with a time that beat me by about half a second (I was in the 40-44 class).

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

Some cool info coming out in this thread...Check out Greg's bars on that drop in durango...

 

[jonKranked]

I thought it was cramped (really short reach) and had a steep head angle for a downhill bike.

that's saying something given the era it came from.

thanks for the info! got any more stories?

 

[ianjenn]

ok, i’m on it.

I've asked Brendan and Cyril Kurtz about those bikes and the team but they were both juniors at the time and mostly spoke about language barriers (between the mechanics/engineers and the riders). Brendan said the bb was very high and the head angle steep. I think he was on an Orange before which was pretty low and slack for the time. It seems like they were kept in the dark or they weren’t very technical at the time. Also, they weren’t allowed to adjust anything themselves. They had to ask the mechanic to do it then he would take measurements and make notes.

i wish I could get more stories out of them...

Okay now I need to find a frame.....

 

[jonKranked]

i wish I could get more stories out of them...

... gotta get a few pints him first.

 

[manhattanprjkt83]

I forget which year it was but I remember seeing the Honda guys at the snowshoe NORBA. Their pit setup was great, you would have thought they had a UFO hidden in that white tent.

 

[ianjenn]

So there might be a position at Honda? Hey lets get this thing made with a 62-63 HA, a 1275-1350WB, a BB that is 13" off the floor and 29" wheels......

 

[xy9ine]

Some cool info coming out in this thread...Check out Greg's bars on that drop in durango...

no kidding. looks like he's on a kids bike. imagine the margins if greg (or anyone, really) was riding a properly sized modern geo bike back then. so weird that geometry experimentation was so timid for so many years. people were all over designing all sorts of janky suspension platforms, but if someone had just tried stretching / slacking things out a few inches / handful of degrees - it would have been a game changer.

 

[slimshady]

no kidding. looks like he's on a kids bike. imagine the margins if greg (or anyone, really) was riding a properly sized modern geo bike back then. so weird that geometry experimentation was so timid for so many years. people were all over designing all sorts of janky suspension platforms, but if someone had just tried stretching / slacking things out a few inches / handful of degrees - it would have been a game changer.

Took several generations for the he road heritage/DNA in our sport to be diluted enough to allow its true essence to emerge... We do even use the same tire/rim standard to this day, even when the requirements and circumstances are so vastly different between a raw trail an a paved road...

 

[xy9ine]

it's just so odd (again, in retrospect) that people were willing to go all batshit crazy with experimentation in some areas (ie, rear suspension), while one of the most important aspects (geometry) moved at a snails pace.

 

[dovbush66]

Took several generations for the he road heritage/DNA in our sport to be diluted enough to allow its true essence to emerge... We do even use the same tire/rim standard to this day, even when the requirements and circumstances are so vastly different between a raw trail an a paved road...

maybe even bmx influence could have caused the shorter and steeper trend.
Switching between the 2, the dh feels really wandery in the front (when not riding actual DH) while the bmx even at higher speeds it feels pretty solid and confidence inspiring, so I can see someone gettin the wires crossed thinking some of the geo elements could work.

Still it's ridiculous considering all this handling science shit was already done for motorbikes.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

maybe even bmx influence could have caused the shorter and steeper trend.
Switching between the 2, the dh feels really wandery in the front (when not riding actual DH) while the bmx even at higher speeds it feels pretty solid and confidence inspiring, so I can see someone gettin the wires crossed thinking some of the geo elements could work.

Still it's ridiculous considering all this handling science shit was already done for motorbikes.

Yeah, like fifty to seventy years earlier...

 

[Kevin]

Wasnt the Yeti DH9 like really long for its day?

 

[dump]

It definitely was compared to the rest.

 

[slimshady]

Still it's ridiculous considering all this handling science shit was already done for motorbikes

Actually, no. The science behind how a bike handles is pretty recent. Jim Papadopoulos, the man behind the most accurate models has been pushing for it for a long time, but he only got acknowledgement for his work less than five years ago:

The Bicycle Problem That Nearly Broke Mathematics

Jim Papadopoulos has spent a lifetime pondering the maths of bikes in motion. Now his work has found fresh momentum

www.scientificamerican.com

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Actually, no. The science behind how a bike handles is pretty recent. Jim Papadopoulos, the man behind the most accurate models has been pushing for it for a long time, but he only got acknowledgement for his work less than five years ago:

The Bicycle Problem That Nearly Broke Mathematics

Jim Papadopoulos has spent a lifetime pondering the maths of bikes in motion. Now his work has found fresh momentum

www.scientificamerican.com

There have historically been two schools of engineering, empirical and mathematical/theoretical, both valid. As bicycles evolved empirically into motorcycles, stagnated, then re-emerged as a the MTB field of interest, a lot of the learnings of prior motorcycle development were forgotten and re-invented. Papadopoulos' work is of interest, but ain't the only or necessarily definitive way.

 

[slimshady]

Agree, but on the other hand the mainstream research/development on the bike industry has been driven by marketers rather than by engineers or riders. Other than Chris Porter, Cesar Rojo and maybe five more visionaries the big brands were and still are focusing on small increments, maybe because they are afraid of scaring their potential buyers off.

I'd say Papadopoulos' work is in tune with the current trend of short offset/slack HAs we are currently enjoying.

 

[rideit]

it's just so odd (again, in retrospect) that people were willing to go all batshit crazy with experimentation in some areas (ie, rear suspension), while one of the most important aspects (geometry) moved at a snails pace.

As much as I didn’t like most of what they made, I do have to give CDale (grudging) credit for NGAF and going in whatever direction they felt like following.

 

[norbar]

I heard it was an engineering exercise in problem solving with no plans for a commercial product. Supposedly they crushed all the bikes but one? I think one got stolen too.

Supposedly they were considering selling it but when they estimated the price they decided to drop that idea as it was around 3x what other top dh bikes were.

 

[norbar]

random image search find: a couple rn-01's were stolen back when they were being raced. lo & behold, this showed up on ebay a couple years later (the gearboxes were removed from the bikes & kept in the hotel rooms because of all the secrecy at the time, explaining the lack of drivetrain). curious what happened with this one:

View attachment 140121

Look up a topic on this forum. AFAIK there was more info about them but I think the bikes were recovered.

 

[buckoW]

When I first worked with Greg he was still riding for Honda. In my contract with Greg (written by his manager at the time, Martin Whiteley) I wasn't allowed to touch Greg's Honda. I did ride it around the parking lot once when Greg went to the bathroom, I thought it was cramped (really short reach) and had a steep head angle for a downhill bike.

Brendan said the bb was very high too.

 

[norbar]

Brendan said the bb was very high too.

Kinda explains why Greg didn't need much time to adjust to the v10

 

[slimshady]

Kinda explains why Greg didn't need much time to adjust to the v10

 

[norbar]

Damn, Shots fired.

 

[jonKranked]

Damn, Shots fired.

i think they're all getting antsy for race season to start lol

 

[chris_f]

i think they're all getting antsy for race season to start lol

I think we all are, last season was very exciting so kinda pumped to see what'll go down this year.