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Hope freehubs - what would you change?

What would you want in an upgraded Pro II freehub?

  • More engagements - 24pt is for peasants

  • More engagements - 40pt is for peasants too

  • Steel reinforcement/inserts to prevent cassette-induced spline damage

  • Better seal between freehub and hub body - plastic is for plebs

  • Just some stickers will be fine thanks


Results are only viewable after voting.

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,748
860
I've vaguely considered making an faster engaging complete freehub body for Pro IIs with some other improvements. Most likely a regular and XD version retrofittable to existing 24t and 40t hub bodies. I'm interested in what people would consider an appropriate cost for an upgrade like this too, as it would probably influence how much better it could be.

Open to any suggestions, particularly in terms of pricing.
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
I like my hope pro II evo's so far.

I like that they were easily convertible from 150-157.

My cassette body looks like a badger chewed on it.

I have had no failures yet.

I would like them better if they had higher engagement and the hub body with stood cassette abuse better.

I would be willing to pay anywhere from $50-$100 to "upgrade" the hub to higher engagement points and a more better hub body.

Much more than that and I'd just buy other hubs.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,748
860
Hadleys are heavy and expensive, what if you could have the same features in a lighter Hope?

 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
Hope pro 2 evo quick google search says $180-230/hub ( I didn't check sizes, colors, etc.)

Hadley = $300 +

king = $400

i9 torch = $350-400

Hope is a good durable (so far for me) option. If I could upgrade it to perform better (engagement) cheaply, I could live with the cassette chewing (it doesn't affect performance yet after 3 years).

I don't mind the noise, while I've never inspected the insides, I assume they are loud because the engagement is very solid (even if there is not a lot of points of engagement) so I can deal with that. Sure, quieter would be cooler, but it's a good reminder to get back on the pedals too.
 

jstuhlman

We noticed.
Dec 3, 2009
9,666
4,427
Cackalacka du Nord
Welp, seeing as you can buy a new steel freehub for a pro2 for about $90, I'd guess that you'd have to add better engagement to the package and keep it around that price point to really sell many. A little quicker engagement would be nice, but I've not been overly bothered by how it is currently. And sure, my freehub is chewed up a bit, but after 3 years I can still get the cassette on and off fine.

I kind of like the noise.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,748
860
I haven't had a problem with the freehub getting mildly chewed either, it's a slight annoyance rather than a real problem. I'd want to keep the body primarily aluminum to keep the weight down, otherwise you could just buy a hadley.

For those who don't like the noise @supercow @kickstand , you can fix that yourself:
Udi said:
Basically those hubs have a lot more spring tension on the pawls than they actually require - which means they click louder and have more coasting drag than they should.

The load bearing itself is done by the pawl, and it is held in place (without the spring) once loaded - the only purpose of the spring is to make sure the pawl is pushed into each gap initially. So to make them quieter you can bend back the leaf spring slightly to remove the excess tension. If you go too far or change your mind you can carefully reset them too.

Don't overdo it, the pawl should still spring up enough to engage completely and positively into its track - you can test this easily by removing the freehub body seal (plastic shield that clips into main hub body) and slowly sliding the freehub body on while watching the pawl depth in relation to the track.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
1,942
580
Northern California
- Chewed up body doesn't affect performance. I wouldn't pay more to improve this.
- More engagement points (>40) and better seals would improve performance. I could see myself paying ~$75 USD for an upgrade here. Maybe $100 if it includes a cross-grade to XD.
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,556
79
teedotohdot
Are you planning on making these yourself?

the Engagement on the evo's is fine. Those who think it needs more must be riding trials bikes. It's fine. The noise is fine. The only few things would be durability of the hub shell, and the sealing to make it last longer. If you put enduro bearings in it, I'm out. SKF or similar or bust. This must be the only industry that thinks cheap bearings are something special. :bonk:

Who is going to make them?
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
I haven't had a problem with the freehub getting mildly chewed either, it's a slight annoyance rather than a real problem. I'd want to keep the body primarily aluminum to keep the weight down, otherwise you could just buy a hadley.

For those who don't like the noise @supercow @kickstand , you can fix that yourself:
The noise does not bother me nearly enough to care about trying to quiet the noise, at all.

I also don't have them on a bike that needs to coast better than it does. I spend more time dragging my brakes on my DH bike than I do coasting, so the hub is actually helping me to prolong my brake pad life :D
 

kickstand

Turbo Monkey
Sep 18, 2009
3,445
392
Fenton, MI
Are you planning on making these yourself?

the Engagement on the evo's is fine. Those who think it needs more must be riding trials bikes. It's fine. The noise is fine. The only few things would be durability of the hub shell, and the sealing to make it last longer. If you put enduro bearings in it, I'm out. SKF or similar or bust. This must be the only industry that thinks cheap bearings are something special. :bonk:

Who is going to make them?
Sure it's fine/acceptable/not the end of the world, but having ridden other hubs/bikes with higher engagement points it is an upgrade that I value and would be willing to pay extra money for.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,748
860
Are you planning on making these yourself?
I was just planning on printing more stickers, the other things are empty promises to generate interest.
the Engagement on the evo's is fine. Those who think it needs more must be riding trials bikes. It's fine.
Depends which Evo you are talking about. There are two generations of Evo, the first was around for 2-3 years and only had 24pt engagement - it's only the second (current) generation which has 40pt. This means that there's a large crop of standard Pro2 and 1st generation Pro2 Evo hubs with 24pt out there still. As @kickstand pointed out, no one is claiming an extra 30HP as a result of an upgrade here, but many (myself included) consider it nice to have.
The noise is fine.
I never said otherwise - however since you mention it - the noise is a result of excess pawl drag, and there is actually a noticeable difference in frictional coasting resistance from the stock hub to one on which spring tension is correctly adjusted.
The only few things would be durability of the hub shell, and the sealing to make it last longer. If you put enduro bearings in it, I'm out. SKF or similar or bust. This must be the only industry that thinks cheap bearings are something special. :bonk:
Sorry man, I'll try harder to make you happy next time. I can't seem to do anything right. :(
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,556
79
teedotohdot
Haha. I'm just asking. I come from the 'do' side of mfg so I always want to know more. I have the 40t one. seems fine, but I can see the 24t one wanting upgrades.

You for real on stickers? I'm really asking if you are making them, if so I'd ask what machines, where, etc. I'm a toolmaker and planner so these things interest me.

How does one go about adjusting the springs? Drag is not good and I'd like to know how you go about doing it? The enduro thing is more of a warning. You've been warned! haha
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,748
860
How does one go about adjusting the springs? Drag is not good and I'd like to know how you go about doing it? The enduro thing is more of a warning. You've been warned! haha
I quoted a quick guide a bit further up (post 12) on the spring tension.

I haven't looked into manufacturing at all, wanted to gauge what people actually wanted first. It would be nice if I could get away with using the stock pawls, but I think a good solution would involve new pawls (hardened steel) and springs which I highly doubt will be happening at $100 including a new 7075 freehub.

Ideally I'd have an an empty shell option to keep costs down for people who want to BYO bearings, but keep in mind the loading on the freehub bearings is much lower than the main hub bearings anyway. The main ones do last much longer with higher end items, especially in the front - but while I agree with your stab at cheap bearings, the load vs. existing bearing size is important to consider and in this particular freehub it's a generous spec.
 

shirk007

Monkey
Apr 14, 2009
314
112
Less drag, copy the American Classic sliver of steel to keep the honey badger chewed up splines, and higher engagement would be my requests.

Pretty sure mine is 24. So a move to 40 would be pretty good.

Good to know the springs can be softened as I don't really like the loud clacking.
 

atrokz

Turbo Monkey
Mar 14, 2002
1,556
79
teedotohdot
I quoted a quick guide a bit further up (post 12) on the spring tension.

I haven't looked into manufacturing at all, wanted to gauge what people actually wanted first. It would be nice if I could get away with using the stock pawls, but I think a good solution would involve new pawls (hardened steel) and springs which I highly doubt will be happening at $100 including a new 7075 freehub.

Ideally I'd have an an empty shell option to keep costs down for people who want to BYO bearings, but keep in mind the loading on the freehub bearings is much lower than the main hub bearings anyway. The main ones do last much longer with higher end items, especially in the front - but while I agree with your stab at cheap bearings, the load vs. existing bearing size is important to consider and in this particular freehub it's a generous spec.

Cool. if you make it to mfg let me know, I can get that done ;)
 

tomasis7

stroganoff
Nov 5, 2014
623
65
Electronic bong-shed LEGAL
I took DT350 over hope because size of flange. I have Hadley as well. I wouldn't buy another one because weight and price.

If hope with custom upgrade and same size of Flange, manages to equal Hadley, why not!

For lower budget, I'm looking at superstars /Dartmoor revolt. Again because Flange size.
 

troy

Monkey
Dec 3, 2008
844
409
1 more thing if You want to mage the freehub out of aluminum (this plastic/steel little thing on a freehub):
 

tomasis7

stroganoff
Nov 5, 2014
623
65
Electronic bong-shed LEGAL
How about making 5 different versions of spring to pawls? X-soft to xx-strong? As bonus those tiny springs laser printed "Udi engineering lab".

Also release video clips in youtube where you listen to accurately recorded sounds in soundproof room.
 
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Gary

"S" is for "neo-luddite"
Aug 27, 2002
2,757
756
UK
I must have something like 12 hope hubs. I just wish I didn't have to replace bearings every few weeks.

If anything, machine a properly wide flange spacing rear hub body that takes their trials freehub body and a 12x150mm axle.. something Hope should have done 10 years ago when a few of us asked them to.
 

demonprec

Monkey
Nov 12, 2004
237
14
Whonnock BC Canada
i really like my Hope hubs , have no idea what the freehub looks like been on the bike for 7 mths , will know soon as i,m swapping the wheels over to my new bike when it arrives and i have to swap from 10spd Shimano to 11spd Sram and change the freehub .

any body make a stainless or aluminumbronze freehub body ??
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
9,374
1,770
AK
Seriously though, I use a old-style-engagement hope fatsno on my fat bike and it's great, no issues and I never really cared for "instant engagement". I have a 40pt 142 I'm getting ready to build up next week or so. It does seem like the 190 version (I have a 170) seems to stretch the hub out beyond it's capabilities, in terms of axle/freehub flex, there are some failures reported in this area. If you could adapt a DT style mechanism that would be money, but I'd have to break the regular hope first to care.
 

mykel

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2013
1,988
644
sw ontario canada
I have ProII and ProII Evo, both with 24 point.
I would love a high engagement option.

The Evo on the DH bike I would prefer mor POI, but can live with 24 if I have too.
The non-evo on the trail bike is crying out for more engagement - 60 or better?

Less drag and better sealing would be next.

A tougher free hub, meh, would be nice, but like others, a little chewed up, but still no problem changing cassettes.

Stickers are always good.
 

6thElement

Schrodinger's Immigrant
Jul 29, 2008
4,609
2,289
I have ProII and ProII Evo, both with 24 point.
I would love a high engagement option.
Same. The original Pro2 is 6+ years old with thousands of miles on it, no issues, original bearings. Have changed the front bearings once in that set though.
 

supercow

Monkey
Feb 18, 2009
970
126
Who are "we"?

Oh, there will be a few of "us"
Remember, there’s a big difference between non sequitur humour, and just bashing your forehead against the keyboard, and see what happens when you post the result.

Sometimes, your posts just remind me of my great grandma just before she went batshit and kicked the bucket. She used to have conversations in her head (which no one else was privy to) and then randomly include any bystander into said conversation. That sums up 90% of your responses. The WTF expression on their faces, is the same one I wear, when I see your name pop up in a thread.
 
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tomasis7

stroganoff
Nov 5, 2014
623
65
Electronic bong-shed LEGAL
Oh, there will be a few of "us"
Remember, there’s a big difference between non sequitur humour, and just bashing your forehead against the keyboard, and see what happens when you post the result.

Sometimes, your posts just remind me of my great grandma just before she went batshit and kicked the bucket. She used to have conversations in her head (which no one else was privy to) and then randomly include any bystander into said conversation. That sums up 90% of your responses. The WTF expression on their faces, is the same one I wear, when I see your name pop up in a thread.
Sounds like it's alright make fun of grandma.

You're a jerk after all. Macho, arrogant. Not really surprising when it comes to your own world.

I have to remind you that the world is complex. Not that you think it is.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,748
860
Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts.
Like many of you, I too have an old pair of original Pro2 hubs, and another pair of the 24pt Evo hubs which have all been very reliable and lasted far longer than I expected - probably over 20 rims laced over them with a few bearing changes on each. I broke 2 axles pre-Evo but they made them thicker in the Evo. It'd be nice to make the freehub more modern in sealing and engagement since the hubshells seem to last forever.

How many points of engagement do the stickers have?
Not sure, but I marked your post as useful in hopes that a knowledgeable member will answer.