[Ian F]

Yes, I did a search on this subject and it didn't tell me anything I didn't already know and I've been bleeding Hope brakes for years, so I'm not a newbie to this...

A friend of mine bought a set of Hope Mini's off the web and she asked me to help her with shortening the line and running the lines through the bosses on her Duo. "no big deal..." or so I thought.

We attempted the rear brake first. Pulled the banjo off the caliper and removed it fro mthe line, shortened the line... yadda, yadda, yadda... Go to bleed it.... Nothing. No amount of pumping the lever will produce enough pressure to push fluid through the bleed valve. Sit there working the lever for 10 minutes and it just goes to the grip...

After two hours of trying every Hope trick I've learned over the past 5 years, I decide to take a break and convert a C2 I'm selling her from a #6 to a #3. Everything goes fine - despite the fact the #3 is brand new and had no fluid in it. Then we decide to do the front brake on the Duo (line needed shortening as well). That brake bleeds fine - literally take about 5 minutes start to finish. "See? I'm not insane! That's how it's supposed to go!" I tell her.

Unfortunately, still no pressure will build in the rear brake....

I'm at a loss. I would imagine that regardless of how much air may be trapped in the caliper, pumping the lever long enough would evenutally compress the air enough to get some lever... but we're getting nothing. Any ideas?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

The line should be in a vertical position for the manual bleed. Or use an automotive type brake bleeder. I've used that with great sucess on the minis.

 

[D_D]

Try getting a big seringe and pump the fluid up to the lever.

Remove the hose from the lever and see if it will pump fluid then.

If you remove the hose from both ends you can drain all the fluid and air bubbles out and check for a blockage in it.

Might be worth striping the entire sytem to check its not blocked somewhere.

I am sure you must be doing it but are doing it but are you,
Opening the bleed valve,
Pulling the lever to the bar,
closing the bleed valve while still pulling the lever,
Releasing the lever with the bleed valve closed.

 

[Ian F]

Originally posted by Brian HCM#1
The line should be in a vertical position for the manual bleed. Or use an automotive type brake bleeder. I've used that with great sucess on the minis.

I'll try putting the bike in my stand at a steeper angle next time, for sure. Unfortunately, it was in her stand which doesn't have the height adustment of my PRS-5 stand.

What kind of automotive bleeder do you mean? A vacuum type? We were using a typical Lisle manual bleeder kit I told her to buy at Pep Boys (which I've been using for years on Hopes).

The issue hasn't been getting fluid into the bleeder. When hte valve is opened, the lever with push fluid through. But for some reason fluid won't flow from the reservior into the caliper when the valve is closed. It's as if releasing the lever after closing the valve just creates a vacuum in the caliper and no amount of lever-actuation seems to be pushing fluid into it.

I wonder if something is clogging up the port between the banjo-side piston and the valve-side...

 

[Ian F]

Originally posted by D_D
Try getting a big seringe and pump the fluid up to the lever.

Tried that - no change.

Originally posted by D_D
Remove the hose from the lever and see if it will pump fluid then.

If you remove the hose from both ends you can drain all the fluid and air bubbles out and check for a blockage in it.

Fluid flows through the hose fine.

Originally posted by D_D
Might be worth striping the entire sytem to check its not blocked somewhere.

That's my next step. Unfortunately, I really need to do this as my house where I have an air compressor to blow out any clogs in the caliper ports.

Originally posted by D_D
I am sure you must be doing it but are doing it but are you,
Opening the bleed valve,
Pulling the lever to the bar,
closing the bleed valve while still pulling the lever,
Releasing the lever with the bleed valve closed.

To be honest, I've never bled Hopes that way, but when I ran into problems I re-read the directions and did it that way and it still didn't work.

I've always bled Hopes (and every car I've worked on) by pumping the lever to build pressure first, then cracking open the bleed valve, holding the lever to the grip, then closing the valve, and repeating until no air comes out.

When I tried Hope's way, I opened the valve, pulled the lever, some fluid came out the hose, then closed the valve, then released the lever. But the next time the vavle was opened, the previously exited fluid would just get sucked back into the caliper as if there is some sort of vacuum.

 

[Shencycle]

the master cyclinder PISTON is acting up....take it apart and see if it is clogged.....blow it out with some compressed air......if you want to get serious.....and you have a front and a rear set....switch out the master cyclinder piston......and see what happens.....could be one of the seals binding up.....but sounds more like the cyclinder is clogged.....

 

[Shencycle]

Originally posted by Shencycle
the master cyclinder is acting up....take it apart and see if it is clogged.....blow it out with some compressed air......if you want to get serious.....and you have a front and a rear set....switch out the master cyclinder piston......and see what happens.....could be one of the seals binding up.....but sounds more like the cyclinder is clogged.....

http://www.hopetech.com/technical/images/Mini Lever Expl.htm

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Yeah, I use a vacuum type bleeder. Don't pump the lever till its done bleeding. What I do is remove wheel and pads, place a wedge in between the pistons(make sure they are flush with the caliper housing) attatch the bleeder fill top the resivour off and pump the bleeder then crack the nipple, close the nipple after a second and repeat. Make sure the resivour doesn't run dry or you have to start all over. Once blead, replace the cap, and with the wedges still in then pump the lever, it should start to firm up. You should be good to go. If its still not working the lever seals may be bad.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

This type I use, also I have the Hope power bleeder

 

[Ian F]

I have a similar vacuum bleeder, so I'll give that a try.

I also called Hope yesterday and he recommended adjusting the bike attitute so the caliper is higher than the lever... okay...

I also have the Hope power bleeder, but the cap only fits the Sport and Pro (round) reserviors.

To be honest, I do not like the design of the Mini caliper at all. The way the transfer port is designed, there seems to be nothing that forces fluid to move from the banjo, through both piston chambers, and into the bleed valve. There is direct path from the banjo to bleed valve. My old Enduro was not like that. Very strange....

I'll have to do something soon as while she has other bikes to ride, the Duo is her favorite...

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Call Hope, they have the power bleeder adaptor for the mini lever. I have both. Caliper higher That doesn't sound right.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Anyways use the vacuum bleeder like in the pic. I've done several minis with those with perfect results.

 

[Ian F]

Originally posted by Brian HCM#1
Call Hope, they have the power bleeder adaptor for the mini lever. I have both. Caliper higher That doesn't sound right.

I sh!t you not. He said something to the effect of, "by raising the caliper above the lever, it allows any air to work it's way to the bleeder valve better." I'd never heard such a recommendation before either, but these kind of comments are what I'm used to getting when I call Hope...

She can buy the adapter if she wants, but I don't plan on bleeding Mini's often enough to justify the expense...

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by Ian F
I sh!t you not. He said something to the effect of, "by raising the caliper above the lever, it allows any air to work it's way to the bleeder valve better." I'd never heard such a recommendation before either, but these kind of comments are what I'm used to getting when I call Hope...

She can buy the adapter if she wants, but I don't plan on bleeding Mini's often enough to justify the expense...

Give Hope a call, I believe the sent one to Acadian for free.

 

[Fury]

Do they come with them now?

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by Fury
Do they come with them now?

Yes.

 

[Ian F]

Delayed update...

We were never able to get the things to work, so she ended up sending the brake to Hope. Turns out the lever was bad. They fixed it and sent it back.

Now the brakes squeal like a stuck pig and it drives her insane. She's replacing them with Maguras.

I refuse to touch another Hope brake ever again. :angry:

Hope-boy is dead. Long live Hayes Boy.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by Ian F
Delayed update...

We were never able to get the things to work, so she ended up sending the brake to Hope. Turns out the lever was bad. They fixed it and sent it back.

Now the brakes squeal like a stuck pig and it drives her insane. She's replacing them with Maguras.

I refuse to touch another Hope brake ever again. :angry:

Hope-boy is dead. Long live Hayes Boy.

Sorry to hear that, did you try different pads?

 

[Ian F]

Originally posted by Brian HCM#1
Sorry to hear that, did you try different pads?

Yes, they gave her new pads with the returned brake. That's all I know. I didn't fiddle with any after she put it back on the bike.

She still thinks I'm nuts when I told her about the "mud method" to bed in the pads...

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Originally posted by Ian F
Yes, they gave her new pads with the returned brake. That's all I know. I didn't fiddle with any after she put it back on the bike.

She still thinks I'm nuts when I told her about the "mud method" to bed in the pads...

Get some EBC pads, I think I have some in stock if you wanna try a pair.