Hope Pro 4 Dh hubs

johnbryanpeters · Jan 25, 2016

Kurt, sorry about the inconvenience, but the three post restriction is to discourage spambots.

ianjenn · Jan 25, 2016

I work with numerous guys that have used their older hubs and loved them. I used their Hubs back from 2000-2006 and they where great. Their hubs are gonna be a fair bit nicer than the other two companies you listed....

Sandwich · Jan 25, 2016

Kurt_80 said:
Would you think that a wider spacing between flanges (= "stiffer wheel") is enough of an advantage to limit my gears to 7?

Help me.

I'm lost.

No experience, but yes, a stiffer wheel is good, and on a DH bike 10 speeds are entirely unnecessary. Many pros run the 7 speed setup from SRAM, which simply adds dead space instead of functional flange width. But whatever.

SDet · Jan 25, 2016

I have the atomlab hub, plan to build it up this weekend. The flanges are around 1" wider than on the dt350 I have currently. So, that should stiffen things up nicely. I've heard that the set up to have is a 11-36, without the three gear cluster, I'll be running a 11-28 with every other gear removed. I think it'll be neat to try it.

kickstand · Jan 25, 2016

Sandwich said:
No experience, but yes, a stiffer wheel is good, and on a DH bike 10 speeds are entirely unnecessary. Many pros run the 7 speed setup from SRAM, which simply adds dead space instead of functional flange width. But whatever.

I still don't understand the desire to run 7 speed on a hub that has room for a full 10 speed cassette. I can think of a handful of resorts where I use the full range of my 10 speed to get around.

Sure, If I was a pro on the world cup circuit and needed to save 13 grams off the weight of my bike that would be great.

On the other hand the 7 speed specific hub with a wider flange spacing does make sense to me, giving up a few gears to increase wheel stiffness/strength is logical.

Giving up 3 gears just to replace it with a spacer and save 13 grams seems silly.

Sandwich · Jan 25, 2016

kickstand said:
Giving up 4 gears just to replace it with a spacer and save 13 grams seems silly.

bcuz SRAM

Gary · Jan 25, 2016

Even if you do want a wide range, close ratio cassettes are pretty stupid off road when your comfortable cadence range is anything from 30 to 180rpm.

HINT: you can still run whatever ratio cassette you think you'll need for your resort cycling but omit the pointlessly close jumps.

I only run 8 speed on my xc bike.

kickstand · Jan 25, 2016

Gary said:
Even if you do want a wide range, close ratio cassettes are pretty stupid off road when your comfortable cadence range is anything from 30 to 180rpm.

HINT: you can still run whatever ratio cassette you think you'll need for your resort cycling but omit the pointlessly close jumps.

I only run 8 speed on my xc bike.

I use the pointlessly close gear ratio jumps. For actual down the hill riding I use most of the bottom 5-6 gears on an 11-26 10 speed cassette. Depending on the trail of course, but I get a fair amount of use out of most of them.

I use the top 3 for getting around to the lifts. Service roads, etc. I don't often pedal my DH bike up hills.

I only ride my DH bike at lift or shuttle assisted locations, living in a fairly flat state i don't get more use out of it like a lot of people.

Gary · Jan 25, 2016

kickstand said:
For actual down the hill riding I use most of the bottom 5-6 gears on an 11-26 10 speed cassette.

That's 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23 -26 right?

So all One tooth jumps ?

I've always felt changing gear by a one tooth difference at the bottom end of your cassette while riding DH feels less efficient than simply upping/lowering your cadence and staying in the same gear a little longer. I find shifting two sprockets at a time messy/a complete PITA and even less efficient.

On my DH bikes since 2007 (I think) I've run a 7 speed 11-23: 11-13-15-17-19-21-23 (with a 36T ring)
I pretty much only use the 13, 15 and 17 while riding DH. the 11T is only there for 35mph+ motorways. 19-23 aren't used at all for DH (but stupid limit screw design dictates I need to run 7)

We're all different so do whatever you want.

Hope this helps you understand others choices

Sandwich · Jan 25, 2016

Listen, boost spacing is like 2% wider, and it's a $1000 upgrade. This is like 30% wider, so what is that, 20$?

kickstand · Jan 25, 2016

Gary said:
That's 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23 -26 right?

So all One tooth jumps ?

I've always felt changing gear by a one tooth difference at the bottom end of your cassette while riding DH feels less efficient than simply upping/lowering your cadence and staying in the same gear a little longer. I find shifting two sprockets at a time messy/a complete PITA and even less efficient.

On my DH bikes since 2007 (I think) I've run a 7 speed 11-23: 11-13-15-17-19-21-23 (with a 36T ring)
I pretty much only use the 13, 15 and 17 while riding DH. the 11T is only there for 35mph+ motorways. 19-23 aren't used at all for DH (but stupid limit screw design dictates I need to run 7)

We're all different so do whatever you want.

Hope this helps you understand others choices

I'd have to look at the cassette, but I don't shift much in run. In a race I'll pick out a few shift points to be in an optimal gear.

I just don't see the point of taking gears off a cassette if they're already there, that's all. Otherwise I'm in agreement with you for the most part

Gary · Jan 26, 2016

Ditching pointless stuff makes sense to me.
But here are some more "points" to consider...

Weight - ditching 3 sprockets makes a $20 cassette a similar weight to a $100 one. and I'm a tight Scottish pikey who'd rather spend that $80 on beer and women.
Mud - less places for mud to accumulate (A real problem in the UK). bike bogs down less and is easier to clean. = MOAR drinking/riding time
Mech protection - on the lowest limit it'll be much further from your spokes meaning if you tag it and bend it or your hanger there's quite a bit less chance of it hitting your spokes and taking out your rear wheel. Drinking time> riding time > Wheel building time.
Relating to the above. a bent mech/hanger will still often index fine over 7 gears too. Can't say the same about 9 never mind 10. I've successfully run bent SRAM mechs for years with no problems. Again less time fucking about with your bicycle MOAR time in the pub/riding.

So to summarize MOAR BEER $$ and MOAR drinkin' time seems to be THE point!

Anyway... Back to the OP. Hope hubs are generally a great purchase. Decently reliable, easy to service and fairly good value for money (here) but having said that I'm not sure I'd buy Hope products at all if I didn't live in the UK. Their after care customer service over here is one of the best you'll find for any manufacturer. One phone call and you'll have spares/replacements in a day. and spares are readily available in lots of better bike shops. I'm not sure how that support translates to other countries but if there's a brand in your country that offers a similar product with similar support I'd probably go with that.. Prob rules out Atomlab and Reverse in pretty much every country though, eh?

kickstand · Jan 26, 2016

Gary said:
Ditching pointless stuff makes sense to me.
But here are some more "points" to consider...

Weight - ditching 3 sprockets makes a $20 cassette a similar weight to a $100 one. and I'm a tight Scottish pikey who'd rather spend that $80 on beer and women.

Mud - less places for mud to accumulate (A real problem in the UK). bike bogs down less and is easier to clean. = MOAR drinking/riding time

Mech protection - on the lowest limit it'll be much further from your spokes meaning if you tag it and bend it or your hanger there's quite a bit less chance of it hitting your spokes and taking out your rear wheel. Drinking time> riding time > Wheel building time.

Relating to the above. a bent mech/hanger will still often index fine over 7 gears too. Can't say the same about 9 never mind 10. I've successfully run bent SRAM mechs for years with no problems. Again less time fucking about with your bicycle MOAR time in the pub/riding.

?

1. You still have to put a spacer in there, and I doubt anyone could run the 2 cassettes (7 speed with spacer or 10 speed with all gears) back to back and feel a difference. If your talking about the hope hub that is spaced wider and has room for 7 cogs than I am in agreement it makes sense. (I run cheap cassettes, so I'm not saving any cash by going to the 7 speed set up)
2. East Coast and especially the southeast is all about mud. Never have I thought, gee, if I got rid of 3 of my cogs I could have been done washing my bike 15 seconds ago.
3. I am only using the top 3 cogs near the wheel to ride on service roads, parking lots, around the resort to get from one chair to the next, etc. derailuer getting eaten by my rear wheel is not a problem.
4. Invalid. a bent derailuer or hanger is going to index wherever it wants to index, if it won't go into the top 3 gears than so be it, at that point the goal is to find one gear it will go into that works for the trail being ridden.

kickstand · Jan 26, 2016

Kurt_80 said:
The other option, of course, is to run a conventional 10 speed setup. So the question is really: How much stronger is the rear wheel? Does the wider spacing pretty much prevent buckles etc on a standard downhill rim? Is the rear wheel almost invincible?

I guess I'm wondering why more people aren't excited by this.

Well, I have a Hope Pro 2, which many have complained has very narrow spacing, and it does compared to other hubs. I have bent a rear wheel with it, but I want to say that was more related to me coming up short and casing a jump or slamming my rear wheel into a rock. 1 wheel flat spotted/bent over 3 seasons seems ok to me.

So, the wider spacing is a plus for sure, how much remains to be seen, some people could ruin a truck rim on a bike, and others could ride roadie wheels and survive. Some people notice a lot of flex, others don't.

Gary · Jan 26, 2016

1. The spacer weighs 8g
You're not new here so you know fine that a light bike needs to have light parts so I'm guessing you're either stupid or just looking for an argument.

2. Don't care! it's not the mud I personally ride in. You may or may not change your mind after riding many full winters in the conditions I ride here.

3. Swaying towards stupid.

4. Yep. Seems a positive result for stupid. Don't worry though, it's not always terminal.

A bent derailleur/hanger will usually still index fairly consistently. What changes is how far the top jockey wheel moves across per click. It stands to reason indexing will be farther out over 9 clicks than 6.

Have someone read this to you a few times.

Thank me later.

SDet · Jan 26, 2016

The weight savings can be bigger than just the few cogs. Wider flanges mean a stiffer wheel, so you can do things like butted spokes instead of straight gage. I'll do a weigh in before and after.

Lelandjt · Jan 26, 2016

kickstand said:
I still don't understand the desire to run 7 speed on a hub that has room for a full 10 speed cassette. I can think of a handful of resorts where I use the full range of my 10 speed to get around.

Sure, If I was a pro on the world cup circuit and needed to save 13 grams off the weight of my bike that would be great.

On the other hand the 7 speed specific hub with a wider flange spacing does make sense to me, giving up a few gears to increase wheel stiffness/strength is logical.

Giving up 3 gears just to replace it with a spacer and save 13 grams seems silly.

Shorter chain that bounces less in the gears you do use.

kickstand · Jan 26, 2016

Gary said:
1. The spacer weighs 8g
You're not new here so you know fine that a light bike needs to have light parts so I'm guessing you're either stupid or just looking for an argument.

2. Don't care! it's not the mud I personally ride in. You may or may not change your mind after riding many full winters in the conditions I ride here.

3. Swaying towards stupid.

4. Yep. Seems a positive result for stupid. Don't worry though, it's not always terminal.

A bent derailleur/hanger will usually still index fairly consistently. What changes is how far the top jockey wheel moves across per click. It stands to reason indexing will be farther out over 9 clicks than 6.

Have someone read this to you a few times.

Thank me later.

Your arguments really are not valid. It may work for you, but that doesn't mean it will work or should work for everyone.

I'm neither drunk gary, or stupid gary, I'm simply looking at something that does not make a drastic difference on a standard hub. I've already stated it makes sense on a hub that is spaced specifically for a 7 speed cassette that will allow for a stronger wheel build.

thad · Jan 26, 2016

http://www.hopetech.com/product/pro-4-dh-rear-hub/

Looks pretty good. Flange diameter is bigger. They don't list what the flange spacing is, or how much it weighs.

Running 7 cogs from XT 11-36, gives you 11-24. 11-13-15-17-19-21-24
Ultegra 10 11-23 : 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 21, 23
Ultegra 10 11-25: 11-25 : 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23, 25

One of the plusses/minuses of the tight ratio road cassette, is the gears are spaced closer together. Good for matching your optimum cadence, bad for shifting a wide range of gears quickly. For instance, shifting from 13 to 17 is two shifts with the 7 speed, vs 4 shifts for the 11-23.

XT cassette weighs 330g, top 3 cogs are 185g = 145g http://fcdn.mtbr.com/attachments/weight-weenies/991276d1432614228-xt-11-36-cassette-parts-weights-dscf6562.jpg

jezso · Jan 30, 2016

In case you are still rockin' 135mm rear end, you can still use the Hope trials Hub. It has very wide ~63mm flange distance and is symmetrical as well. Only 7 cogs can be fitted though, but for DH that should be sufficient. I'm not the a very good rider by any means, and find it hard to feel the difference between various setups, however the difference btw. this and the std hope setup is significant. If you want a durable setup, that is also low maintenance I can only suggest it!

SDet · Jan 30, 2016

Built up my atomlab, I need a longer limit screw, but I'm happy with the result.

I'll do a photo dump and write up soon.

SDet · Feb 2, 2016

Okay, so some basics
Old build:
Rim: Spank Subrosa - Green - OG size
Hub: DT 350 12x150
Spokes: Straight gage Silver DT
Nipples: Silver Brass
Rotor: 180mm
Cassette: Srame 1050 11-28

Weight? 1520g

New Build:
Rim: Spank Subrosa - Green - OG size
Hub: Atomlab DHR 7 Speed 102 POE!!!!
Spokes: Double Butted DT Black
Nipples: Black Brass
Rotor: 180mm
Cassette: Srame 1050 11-28 Missing every other cog

Weight? 1420g

Where'd the 100g go?

That's almost 40g, but you can lose about 15g more if you go with the first 7 of a 11-36 cassette, I might do that still, better ship spacing.

Another 14g, small but could be larger with other hubs.

Lookin good with the tire back on.

Thoughts?
Having not ridden it, it rolls longer, by a good margin.
I'm excited to feel the 102 POE vs 18.
And it's not too loud, louder then the DT, but not as loud as a Profile or even a King.
Really reminds me of an i9 hub with the low rolling resistance and the sound.
We'll see if I get out before bootleg in march.

SDet · Mar 14, 2016

Kurt_80 said:
Hi SDet, any thing interesting to report?

Nothing new, was going to test it at bootleg over the weekend, but ended up racing a shop bike instead.

Sounds nice on the stand, all I've got for now

jonKranked · Mar 14, 2016

Worth noting we're talking about 100 grams of unsprung weight.

SDet · Mar 14, 2016

jonKranked said:
Worth noting we're talking about 100 grams of unsprung weight.

Yup, I was fairly happy with that.

jonKranked · Mar 14, 2016

What's the engagement mechanism/configuration on the atomlab?

SDet · Mar 14, 2016

I've heard it's a clone of the profile stuff. I've been meaning to pull it apart. Remind me on Thursday and I'll open it up after work and grab some pics.

jonKranked · Mar 15, 2016

SDet said:
I've heard it's a clone of the profile stuff. I've been meaning to pull it apart. Remind me on Thursday and I'll open it up after work and grab some pics.

10-4.

i think at one point they were developing indexed (toothed) pawls and a reverse configuration where the pawls were mounted in the hub shell instead of the freehub body. might not have been, but i know someone was.

SDet · Mar 18, 2016

Update, pulled it apart.

It's really easy, 17mm and 24mm.
Inside,
The world's finest threads

Lots of pawls

And lots of teeth

Jm_ · Sep 14, 2018

Kurt_80 said:
And finally, another decent manufacturer goes for proper 7 speed. I can't imagine they'll sell these hubs individually, but it might promote other brands to jump on the band wagon....

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mavic-deemax-ssc-wheels-first-look-2018.html

The only worry with those wheels is that Mavic may have used some form of aged cheese in place of easily serviceable freewheel mechanism...

MrBaker87 · Sep 10, 2022

Sorry to bump an old thread, but interesting in building up a new rear wheel for my DH bike.

Thinking about going with a Hope Pro 4 DH hub as I run my DH bike singlespeed and that seems to give maximum flange width and therefore stiffness. I tend to ride heavy on my rear wheels, so this would be wonderful.

Any other options I should look at? Any reasons to avoid this?

Hub will likely be laced to a DT ex471 or 511 as those seem to be the gold standard these days.

Hope Pro 4 Dh hubs

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