[KFulch]

Originally posted by wooglin
You mean aside from the fact that they've both got horse **** on them?

Seriously, I don't get it. Yeah, its gross when **** gets splattered in your face, but it happens so rarely that it just seems blown way out of proportion here. If you're gonna hate horses, hate them for how they tear up the trail.

Then again, silage is one of my favorite smells. Reminds me of spring....

I myself do not mind sterring around doodie on the trail; My problem with horses is the owners lack of responsibility and respect of trails. I hate when I wait days for the trail to dry out only to see small creek beds rutted out during these times by horses.

 

[CRUM]

We share the trails here in Maine with all kinds of critters. ATV's Snowmobiles, Motorcycles, 4 wheel drives, Hikers,Bears, Coyotes, Deer, Moose, and of course, Horses. On the annoyance and trail damage scale, horses don't even come close to matching the damage done by the ATV's and 4 wheel drives. While I am scared to death of horses, I respect their right of access. I would rather scoot around a pile of horse poop than huff the fumes of an ATV caravan as it passes me at 40MPH.

The farm across the road from my house has a barn full. And they are ridden daily up and down the road leaving piles of wonderful fertilizer for me to dump on the garden. As long as I don't have to touch, ride, or talk to them, I have no problem with horses.

That said, I do understand their annoyance factor and trail damage potential in other parts of this globe. When I went out to Colorado Springs back in the late 80's to visit my brother, I rented a bike and rode in that huge city park they have there. The trail damage from horses was impressive. Some of the trails had foot deep divits that were obviously not going to go away anytime soon. And the sheer amount of horse dung was astounding. I guess if you jam enough of one kind of trail user onto a very limited number of trails, their effect will be more noticeable than in a more wide open use area.

To the fishermen who complain about fecal run off. When fishing, where do you do your business? If you hold it until a toilet can be found, then my hat's off to you. But if you are dumping or peeing into or near the stream your flinging flys at, then you are no better than the horses you complain about.

 

[SASQUATCH-J]

It really is unfourtunate how much they tear up the trail, and yes, ATVS are worse, but most of the time, motorized vehicles arent allowed on the trails we ride, only horses. their owners are rude and their horses are dumb. and they tend to not care about other trail useers. but i guess everyone knows riding a horse makes you better and more sophisticated than every one else on the trail doesnt it?
-J

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH-J
but i guess everyone knows riding a horse makes you better and more sophisticated than every one else on the trail doesnt it?
-J

I dunno, I always thought people on horses looked kinda odd. And kinda silly too. In order to catch that "sophisticated look", it seems they all have to dress up in the same monkey suit outfits. And then I think they look even sillier.

But I guess, a group of mud covered people sportin the latest in lycra/fleece cycling wear could look silly to the folks who don't ride. About 14 years ago, I stopped into the Acton Trading Post on my way home from a 2 hour nasty, messy wet run through our local woods. I was decked to the nine's with the latest in lycra, neoprene skin hugging duds. Well, the comments by all the good ole boys hanging out were at first, annoying but I could see the humor and I started in on them about their red suspender, holey flannel shirt look. They were not amused. But I was.

You are only as good as you feel. And if feeling good about yourself is determined by the people you hang with, then go for it. Most of us do it to some extent anyway.

 

[SASQUATCH-J]

TO EACH HIS OWN- but i wouldnt be caught dead in lyrica, ill take the croch chaffing. i rode im moabn everyday for a week, and we rode to all the trailheads, and never once did i wear anything but good old jean shorts. I HAVE A CALOUSED ASS!!!!
but i am glad that you have the self confidence to sport the tighties.
-J

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH-J
TO EACH HIS OWN- but i wouldnt be caught dead in lyrica......
but i am glad that you have the self confidence to sport the tighties.

No self-confidence needed. One leg at at time. Once I figured that out, it was easy.

Actually, I am one of those guys who truly has no fashion sense, nor do I care. My wife will attest to that. She recently dragged me kicking and screaming to some mall to buy a new dress shirt and pants for an upcoming Xmas party. And she made sure to monitor the whole purchasing process. From fitting to cash register, she was right there, up close and personal.

So, to wear lycra is of no consequence to me. It works, so I use it. What others think is up to them. I have no need or desire to meet with their approval. You can tell when you see what I wear daily. I definitely do not look in mirrors. And maybe I should. More than once I have been caught with zipper down, tag out, or booger out the nose syndrome. Growing up, my family contended that Charles Schulz(sic) based his "Pig Pen" character after me. I have accepted my fate as a fashion loser and now just worry about the function.

But like you said, "To each his own" .

 

[SASQUATCH-J]

i am what my g/f calls, a redneck. i wear plain (not tight) jeans and a t shirt everyday, and i never dress up. everyone complains. oh well
J

 

[fonseca]

Originally posted by CRUM
To the fishermen who complain about fecal run off. When fishing, where do you do your business? If you hold it until a toilet can be found, then my hat's off to you. But if you are dumping or peeing into or near the stream your flinging flys at, then you are no better than the horses you complain about.

Your hat is off. Like most humans with normal bowels, I am able to refrain from pissing and crapping for any number of hours. Do you have to get up during the night to relieve yourself? You shouldn't.

Even if I were to dump into a stream, I would not be depositing several pounds of droppings loaded with bacteria and parasites. So yeah, I am better than the horses I complain about.

Horses are destructive to sensitive trails and ecosystems. I think the owners should be required to limit the destruction by following a few simple guidelines.

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by fonseca
Horses are destructive to sensitive trails and ecosystems. I think the owners should be required to limit the destruction by following a few simple guidelines.

And what would those "few simple guidelines" be? Guidelines and the word simple do not seem to go together well. Rules are anything but simple.

My biggest complaint regarding the use of the woods for recreation is the unwillingness of one user to accomodate use by another type of user. And the tendency of some users to feel superior over another really grates on me. Hiking Boots definitely have impact. Horses of courses. And Mountain Bikes do also. Anyone who leaves the parking lot and heads into the bushes leaves something behind.

There are a lot of woods out there. If everyone paid attention to and limited their own damage, then we could all have fun in the woods and still have woods to play in.

And regarding your not using the woods for a bathroom. Excellent. You are showing your responsibility. Now, if we can just convince all the fishermen who do piss and s##t in the woods to hold it.

 

[fonseca]

Originally posted by CRUM
And what would those "few simple guidelines" be? Guidelines and the word simple do not seem to go together well. Rules are anything but simple.

It's pretty simple. Horse riders can follow the national forest rules and not permit their horse to stand in streams and crap and piss. Or they could be required to use the poop bags just like horses in cities or on public roads have to use.

I have seen hikers and bikers with dogs be responsible plenty of times and remove their animal's droppings from trails. Why can't horse riders do the same? Are they too lazy? Carry a folding shovel or use a bag.

My biggest complaint regarding the use of the woods for recreation is the unwillingness of one user to accomodate use by another type of user.

Same here.

And regarding your not using the woods for a bathroom. Excellent. You are showing your responsibility. Now, if we can just convince all the fishermen who do piss and s##t in the woods to hold it.

I just don't think that's an issue. There are usually outhouses at parking areas in national forests here in VA, plus it's a pain in the arse to remove waders, especially when you're in the middle of a stream. Not exactly easy access. I have been walking and wading streams that often get heavily fished, and don't recall ever seeing any piles of human waste. Where you see that is usually near trailheads--hiker range. But I think you're missing the original point I was making, which was that horse manure is loaded with parasites which are harmful to the trout in the streams, and this problem can easily be avoided.

I'm no bass fisherman sitting on a cooler of cheap domestic beer with a can of worms and a mullet. Those guys don't go any farther than they can drag their cooler from their truck.

 

[CRUM]

In the scheme of being responsible users of the great outdoors, You and I seem to be on the responsible side. And in the scheme of all the damage done to this planet, we are flyspecks. When I think of how uncaring the rest of the World seems to their own backyard, it sometimes makes me feel that being responsible and caring is an exercise in futility. But then I just keep repeating that good ole granola crunching, tree huggin slogan - "Think globally, act Locally". So I attempt to keep the woods in my neck of the woods as healthy and vibrant as I can while at the same time keeping them accessible to all kinds of usage.

Your complaint about water contamination is well taken. Water is going to be the BIG crisis in the near future. It already is in many parts of the nation and the World.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Originally posted by CRUM
<snip>
Actually, I am one of those guys who truly has no fashion sense, nor do I care. My wife will attest to that. <snip>

<snrrk> I recently told some friends at dinner that clothes for me are simply things so as not to be naked......

-S.S.-

 

[SkaredShtles]

Originally posted by SASQUATCH-J
TO EACH HIS OWN- but i wouldnt be caught dead in lyrica, ill take the croch chaffing. i rode im moabn everyday for a week, and we rode to all the trailheads, and never once did i wear anything but good old jean shorts. I HAVE A CALOUSED ASS!!!!
-J

WTF? You'd rather take crotch chafing than wear lycra?

Well, as my father always used to tell me: "Fernando, it is better to look good than to feel good"

-S.S.-