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Housing affordability

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Thought monkeys might find this interesting. This survey rates affordability for housing in the US, UK, Canada, NZ, Ireland and Australia. Makes for some interesting reading. Seems like the Rochester crew are making out alright. Forget about Australia and California.:mad:
Go here (pdf file sorry)
http://www.demographia.com/dhi-ix2005q3.pdf
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
i doubt i'll ever own a home here in Seattle. i could in Tacoma which is lumped with Seattle in the survey, but i really wouldn't want to live there.
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
Put it this way a friend of mine got a small house (about 1000 square feet) in berkeley california (really close to san francisco) for $73,000 ten years ago, he sold the same house with some small improvements for almost $800,000 about 5 months ago but now he cannot find anything to buy since the market keep growing at a similar rate


what to do around here...
keep buying Bikes since a house is pretty much impossible to afford
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,019
8,729
Nowhere Man!
valve bouncer said:
Seems like the Rochester crew are making out alright.
Not actually. The local economy here is in bad shape. Taxes are high and the base is shrinking in many towns. That and poverty/urban decay/crime are severe problems. Our city has reached a milestone of sorts as we now have 10K in vacant rental units and the highest per capita murder rate in our state.
 

Crashby

Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
947
1
Rochester, NY
Not only does that make for a great quality of life here in Rochester, but gives amazing opportunities in the real estate market. I'm going to make a killing this year in this "affordable" market (and no, not in the rental market ;). I feel very lucky to be living in this city.

Funny you mention Austrailia... I'm working with a group from Australia that wants to invest in the Rochester real estate market.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
i have a hard time believing that Boston is higher on that list than Dublin. salaries were less in ireland, the houses were more, and the euro was also a nasty twist.
 

Ciaran

Fear my banana
Apr 5, 2004
9,841
19
So Cal
narlus said:
i have a hard time believing that Boston is higher on that list than Dublin. salaries were less in ireland, the houses were more, and the euro was also a nasty twist.
When we were there we looked at what it would take to move there. We were surprised at how expensive it seemed to be. Still a ton lower then So Cal though. And things are still cheap in the Irish countryside. But yeah, Ireland is defenitely getting more expensive.Maybe I can buy a bunch of land and be a sheep rancher. :D

Though after living here in SoCal EVERYTHING seems cheaper. I look at places like the Bay Area and say, "Meh, about the same as here at home."... I look at places like Washington (state) and to me it's unbelievably cheap.

It all depands on your point of view, I guess.
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,019
8,729
Nowhere Man!
Crashby said:
Not only does that make for a great quality of life here in Rochester, but gives amazing opportunities in the real estate market. I'm going to make a killing this year in this "affordable" market (and no, not in the rental market ;). I feel very lucky to be living in this city.

Funny you mention Austrailia... I'm working with a group from Australia that wants to invest in the Rochester real estate market.
It all depends on who you talk to how great the quality of life is here. I happen to fall on the "have" side of things also. Good luck on your opportunities. I commend your optimistic outlook.

I have been travelling for work a lot lately and have been able to see how other cities are seemingly prospering (lots of jobs, construction, and young folks having fun). When I come home I don't see any of those things. Our help wanted adds in the D&C constitute a couple of columns and the Albany paper has a whole page?

Don't you worry about the exodus of young folks from our community? What about the state of the city schools? The spiralling crime rate? Doesn't it seem unusual that there is all these oppotunities for you in light of the current state of our local economy? Who exactly is buying those houses you are flipping?

Wasn't Elmgrove bought by an Australian investment group?
 

Crashby

Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
947
1
Rochester, NY
jdcamb said:
It all depends on who you talk to how great the quality of life is here. I happen to fall on the "have" side of things also. Good luck on your opportunities. I commend your optimistic outlook.

I have been traveling for work a lot lately and have been able to see how other cities are seemingly prospering (lots of jobs, construction, and young folks having fun). When I come home I don't see any of those things. Our help wanted adds in the D&C constitute a couple of columns and the Albany paper has a whole page?

Don't you worry about the exodus of young folks from our community? What about the state of the city schools? The spiralling crime rate? Doesn't it seem unusual that there is all these oppotunities for you in light of the current state of our local economy? Who exactly is buying those houses you are flipping?

Wasn't Elmgrove bought by an Australian investment group?
Ironically, my business thrives on a so-so economy, and it actually will strengthen during economic downturns. Tough times mean more foreclosures, and better deals on my houses. I, in turn, fix them up to close to brand new condition, and provide a fantastic house for a family who is at a lower income bracket (sell price= 50-80k). In Rochester, this is where the demand really is... not for for those 300K houses in Perinton (upper class suburb of Rochester). I make a tidy profit, and am doing a "good thing" for the neighborhood. Heck, I have a buyer already for a house I haven't even finished yet.

Case in point, one of my recent houses was occupied by a non-desirable owner (bullets and dime bags in the basement...). I just sold it to a city school teacher and her husband. Quite rewarding.

I actually have even bigger plans on how to "give back" to the community but that comes in about a year or so...
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,019
8,729
Nowhere Man!
Crashby said:
Ironically, my business thrives on a so-so economy, and it actually will strengthen during economic downturns. Tough times mean more foreclosures, and better deals on my houses. I, in turn, fix them up to close to brand new condition, and provide a fantastic house for a family who is at a lower income bracket (sell price= 50-80k). In Rochester, this is where the demand really is... not for for those 300K houses in Perinton (upper class suburb of Rochester). I make a tidy profit, and am doing a "good thing" for the neighborhood. Heck, I have a buyer already for a house I haven't even finished yet.

Case in point, one of my recent houses was occupied by a non-desirable owner (bullets and dime bags in the basement...). I just sold it to a city school teacher and her husband. Quite rewarding.

I actually have even bigger plans on how to "give back" to the community but that comes in about a year or so...
Very cool:thumb: I think a return to single family homes occupied by the owner is the cure for a lot of our woes here in the city. I also think that unless it happens organically (by itself), it won't be successful. I can only see you making serious money if you have cheap, fast, good, efficient rehab crew under your thumb.

Don't you have another job/career? How do you find the time to keep all these projects on track? Are you doing the rehabs? Do you have partners?
 

Crashby

Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
947
1
Rochester, NY
jdcamb said:
Very cool:thumb: I think a return to single family homes occupied by the owner is the cure for a lot of our woes here in the city. I also think that unless it happens organically (by itself), it won't be successful. I can only see you making serious money if you have cheap, fast, good, efficient rehab crew under your thumb.

Don't you have another job/career? How do you find the time to keep all these projects on track? Are you doing the rehabs? Do you have partners?
Im going to try to own/manage 50-60 flips this year, so I have about 35 people that will do the work on these houses, so I only cherry pick the projects that I like to do (re-face fireplaces, put in a marble entranceway, etc...). Very cheap and good labor (another benefit of the socio-economic condition of Rochester).

No partners (in the legal sense), but work with a few high-end business people.

And yes, I have a full time job... I'm a Sr. level consultant at a fortune 500 company here in Rochester.

Time?... If you sleep 8 hours a day, that leaves 112 hours a week to go after your dreams... :dancing:
 

Crashby

Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
947
1
Rochester, NY
narlus said:
and yr lugging sheetrock into an attic? damn.
Actually, today marks the final completion of my personal house... which yes, included lugging drywall into the attic. The point of me buying this house was to rehab the whole thing... I wanted to experience painting, hardwood refinishing, crown molding, tile and hardwood floor installation, cutting marble and granite, drywalling, framing, wall-to-wall carpeting, plumbing, electrical..etc.

My theory is: you have to understand the tasks that you wish to manage...
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,436
8,524
Crashby said:
Actually, today marks the final completion of my personal house... which yes, included lugging drywall into the attic. The point of me buying this house was to rehab the whole thing... I wanted to experience painting, hardwood refinishing, crown molding, tile and hardwood floor installation, cutting marble and granite, drywalling, framing, wall-to-wall carpeting, plumbing, electrical..etc.

My theory is: you have to understand the tasks that you wish to manage...
i would have just bought the time-life home improvement books and quit at that :D
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,658
65
behind the viewfinder
i'm just amazed that as a sr director of a fortune 500 company that you are undertaking house flips.

hell, i'm not sure if my company is a fortune 500 or not (wyeth), but i'd be willing to be that the sr level executives get compensated enough w/ salary and stock that they aren't spending an additional 1000 hr of personal time swinging a hammer.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,436
8,524
narlus said:
i have a hard time believing that Boston is higher on that list than Dublin. salaries were less in ireland, the houses were more, and the euro was also a nasty twist.
here's your answer, from that pdf:

thepdf said:
At the same time, caution should be employed in comparing Median Multiples between
countries, due to substantial differences in average house and lot size. The Demographia
International Housing Affordability Survey does not adjust the Median Multiples within its ratings to
reflect these differences. The average size of housing, particularly new housing, is abnormally small
in Ireland and the United Kingdom.
 

Crashby

Monkey
Jan 26, 2003
947
1
Rochester, NY
narlus said:
i'm just amazed that as a sr director of a fortune 500 company that you are undertaking house flips.

hell, i'm not sure if my company is a fortune 500 or not (wyeth), but i'd be willing to be that the sr level executives get compensated enough w/ salary and stock that they aren't spending an additional 1000 hr of personal time swinging a hammer.
I corrected something in my post... I'm an executive... and I'm a "Senior Consultant)... not a senior executive. I basically manage a global software platform.

I do quite well, but but Id much rather be fixing up a house than managing procurement for a company in the UK... :rolleyes:.

My plan is to grow my real estate company to a size where I can quite my corporate job. Its not really the money I'm after, but rather to obtain the freedom to do what I please, and give back to certain causes in my community...