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How bad an idea is this?

SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
68,660
14,748
In a van.... down by the river
Sandwich said:
I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions on the intertubes. AWD is not the traction be all end all, but it is really, really helpful (depending on your system). There is no match for a car with GOOD AWD and snow tires on snowy roads. 4wd is good only when you get stuck, and FWD is never good, unless you have a limited slip, which you don't. RWD is negative good unless you have a mid engine AND a limited slip.

There are always exceptions, nothing is great on ice besides studs, and a FWD car with brand new snow tires is probably better than an AWD car with bald all seasons in most circumstances, but 90% of the times you slip is when you're accelerating or braking or turning, and extremely rarely when you're going straight. So if you brake appropriately for the conditions, leave yourself some good space, then AWD will help you turn and accelerate more safely and controllably. My car drifts so perfectly that when it breaks traction it's difficult to tell, and it's just as easy to pull it back in line (no fishtails and no snowplowing into a bank in front of you). I've driven nearly every drivetrain in the snow, and AWD makes a huge difference. I would rather drive this car with all seasons (FX35 65%RWD viscous diffs) than any other with snow tires, including three iterations of quattro (open, torSen, locking center), a mid-engined open diff car, and a FWD open diff car. The MR2 was arguably more balanced in a drift, but getting any speed was impossible and the urquattro was a hoonmobile.
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Dude... you're talking about drifting your car in snowy/icy conditions? 98% of the population would panic, $hit their pants, and end up in the ditch.

For them the answer is ALL in the tires. They might as well get the mpg bonus as well.
 
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MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
slyfink said:
really? I'm kinda opposite on this one. From what I've read 4WD and AWD only help in acceleration. for cornering and decceleration, it doesn't really do anything. The way I see it, it lulls people into a sense of security and they drive like they have better overall traction... which isn't the case.

Anecdotaly, it seems you see more 4 and AWD vehicles stuck in the ditch as a result of this false sense of security...
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4WD is best for acceleration. Like when you are stopped at a light, on a hill. Light turns green, and it helps you get up to speed immensely. (and the math to prove that is pretty basic). It doesn't necessarily help with traction (as in tires sticking to the ground). But it does help with controlability. Pretty sure that's why high end rally cars are AWD...
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
22,228
7,548
borcester rhymes
SkaredShtles said:
Dude... you're talking about drifting your car in snowy/icy conditions? 98% of the population would panic, $hit their pants, and end up in the ditch.

For them the answer is ALL in the tires. They might as well get the mpg bonus as well.
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I suppose. The people I keep passing going 15 in a 30 are usually FWDers, the AWDers around here usually move at a good clip. Of course, I grew up in upstate NY so inclement weather is really a non-issue in those parts.
 
MMike

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Da Peach said:
Best advice I ever gave, eh?

As for the fancy cars, my thread title is a hint at my level of seriousness... After banging up my WRX, I pretty much decided that I no longer believed in nice cars being worth it.

If I had absolutely no money concerns, I would DEFINITELY waste a bunch of it on cars. That not being the case, I think I'll stick to sensible.

Are the CX-5 and Escape the same in the same way that the Escape and the Tribute were the same? I'd forgotten about that.
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So take your own advice. And the sliding doors are a nice feature too.
 
StiHacka

StiHacka

Compensating for something
Jan 4, 2013
21,560
12,510
In hell. Welcome!
slyfink said:
really? I'm kinda opposite on this one. From what I've read 4WD and AWD only help in acceleration. for cornering and decceleration, it doesn't really do anything.
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For deceleration, yes. For cornering though, the AWD can be great. Acura's SH-AWD sends torque to individual wheels, I can assure you that there is a wide grin on my face when the system sends torque to rear outer wheel in a tight fast turn. The styling of the 1st gen RDX is a little crazy and definitely a case of acquired taste, but the handling is real nice. It does not have the fuel economy of the CX-5 though.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,809
5,351
North Van
I want to buy vehicle which will let me get away with the sh!ttiest tires I can possibly drive with

For the savings!
 
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Ithnu

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver
SkaredShtles said:
I'm telling you - a FWD with snow tires is going to beat the ever-loving hell out of an AWD with $hitty all seasons on slippery roads.

For 98% of the driving population.
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My friend bought snow tires for his Subi and I asked "why you have AWD?" He said "dude, you're f$@king Super Man". I bought some for my Frontier. Wholly crap he was right. The thing is a madman in the snow; I love it.

As much as I love my 4x4 Frontier with traction control and snow tires...the Bacon boy is correct. All most folks need is snow tires.

*here's my garage, yes my fun car is a Mustang.

 
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slyfink

slyfink

Turbo Monkey
Sep 16, 2008
9,917
5,797
Ottawa, Canada
I guess what I was trying to get at is that Vancouverites are notorious for thinking "I don't need winter tires if I get an AWD car (more often than not a Subaru)... I was hoping that Da Peach wasn't one of those Vancouverites...
 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,656
11,162
AK
slyfink said:
I guess what I was trying to get at is that Vancouverites are notorious for thinking "I don't need winter tires if I get an AWD car (more often than not a Subaru)... I was hoping that Da Peach wasn't one of those Vancouverites...
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Winter tires (as in Blizzacks, etc)? Isn't that sea-level and right next to Seattle? How much can it be snowing there and sticking around? I'm in Anchorage and once we get the first few inches, it's here for all of winter until it starts to break up in late March. This because the temp is usually freezing the entire time from late November until April, with only brief periods above freezing where we get a melt cycle and some new slick stuff to deal with on the roads. Although WRXs with summer performance tires do suck in the snow (based on actual experience of course), this doesn't seem to make sense. Are you saying for constant trips up into the mountains and back where you'll encounter lots of snow? Maybe then I suppose, although going all out for snow-tires seems a little strange still.
 
Da Peach

Da Peach

Outwitted by a rodent
Jul 2, 2002
13,809
5,351
North Van
Yeah, in Hong-couver now, but a Montrealer with a reasonable amount of driving sense remaining. Although, it's clear that the vancouverness of my driving seems to be increasing...but I do, and will always run winter tires. Them mountains get snowed on a fair amount.

I had the WRX and put snows on it the first winter I had it. They saw snow maybe twice. It was a blast when it did though!

And yeah, cayennes are the honda accord of Vancouver, and C32s are the civic.

I WISH I had more money than sense... But that's what my yeti is meant to represent. (Skill too)

Bent my derailleur hanger again... Think I'll have to throw on the new one... Merde. What am I? MADE OF MONEY???
 
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Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,656
11,162
AK
I'm shopping for a winter car, but something I can also mod for autocross in the summer and that I won't really care about if it spends a little time "down" while I'm working on it. So far I'm commuting on my bike this winter (summer car living in heated garage). I've been considering some B5s, but every time I think about it hard I remember you have to take the entire front end of the car off just to get at the alternator and that you are either going to go the 1.8t route or the 2.7tt, 1.8 good because not so much weight is hanging in front of the front axle, but long turbo-spool time with that small of an engine for any serious power, then the 2.7 is that much more weight hanging off there, at least it redeems itself with the displacement and capability. I've looked at a few and even a couple 2.8s (supercharger kit is avail, but will not have the same capability as the two turbo engines), but I've been scared off each time. I booked a trip to Seattle to look at some used WRXs, find one, and ship it here. Everyone here has one, but they never ever sell them. I've been given a few opportunities to pick up a B5, but something just tells me it would not go well. I don't mind putting some $$$ in the car, but I'd have to find a used S4 to make it worth the while I think.

I love driving my camaro SS (w/suspension work done) in the summer, goes around turns so fast, no body roll, not much suspension travel but the shocks work very well, holds the road better than my old wrx ever did, turns 1500rpm at 60mph, etc. Ultimatly I'd like to drive it for another summer and then trade it in towards a new or slightly used A5.

Anyway, I think the best will be to get an older WRX again, the parts are so plentiful now-a-days and they are relatively easy to work on (I changed the timing belt and did lots of other stuff to it). My backup plan for Seattle in a few weeks is to get an S4 if all my WRX leads are fruitless, but the WRXs seem to be pretty plentiful down there...
 
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stevew

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
41,534
10,456
so you don't care about "down time" but still bitch about the B5 audi/VW front end bullsh!t.

funny.
 
jdcamb

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,073
8,821
Nowhere Man!
You should buy a Saturn. It will have a engine, round wheels, and doors that both open and close. They were made for Fat People and can haul lots bricks and sand before they scrape the ground at the end of the driveway. They Roll well too. No matter how high you launch out of the culvert, you always seem to be able to pull it out and land right side up. Or maybe I was just lucky... Nah that can't be it.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,656
11,162
AK
Well, I don't care about downtime in the sense that I may be waiting for a part (and able to drive my other car) and I'm ok doing that, or taking my time with a little bit bigger job, not in the sense that I want to disassemble half the car to get to a part that would be a 30 minute job on any other car.
 
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jdcamb

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,073
8,821
Nowhere Man!
Jm_ said:
Well, I don't care about downtime in the sense that I may be waiting for a part (and able to drive my other car) and I'm ok doing that, or taking my time with a little bit bigger job, not in the sense that I want to disassemble half the car to get to a part that would be a 30 minute job on any other car.
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Oh.... Nevermind.
 
jdcamb

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
20,073
8,821
Nowhere Man!
My friend bought a Toyota Matrix. It was cheap 10K. It is plenty big inside. It's all wheel drive. It seems idiot proof. His Mom loves it....
 
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