How badly could I screw it up?

Heidi · May 29, 2002

Go for it!

HOOWAH · May 29, 2002

buttons are meant to be pushed.
it's the only way to learn about bikes really. :rolleyes:

really though, you can't really break anything by trying to set it up yourself. give yourself a few hours and don't rush.

-P

shootr · May 29, 2002

People have to stop assuming that there is so much "black art" surrounding mechanics...
it is ALL fairly easy, just requires patience, the real difference between you and your local bike shop's top mechanic is that he has more experience..he simply "tried" doing things before you did..
BTW how did it go with your torque wrench??

Surly · May 29, 2002

The flak jackets are nice. Or Straight jackets. Or whatever they're called. You may have to trim the rear one, depending upon your cable routing.
You should be able to install the Avids. The instructions are actually quite clear and astonishingly complete.
The first one took me about 40 minutes. And everybody who has chimed in so far is correct, the fact that they're cable operated and fairly simple makes whatever errors you might commit pretty easily fixed at your LBS.
Just remember to break in the pads, keep your fingers off the braking surface of the rotor and the pads.
Good luck! I love mine, btw.

Brian HCM#1 · May 29, 2002

I think that is so cool you're wrench'n on your bike

Brian HCM#1 · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by MtnBikerChk

THANKS I'm gonna give it a shot anyway!

Its a learning experience, you'll set them up and they will all start to make sense. the next one will be easier. Then when it comes to adjusting them or chaning cables/pads etc, you'll be a pro.

shootr · May 29, 2002

one thing you can do that will increase the life and the stopping power of your brakes before you install them is to "burnish" the pads..

This is simply putting the pads thru a moderate heat cycle allowing the Resins that bind the friction elements to stabilize.
(for more details than I will give here, you can go to my post in Tech Talk, under "ways to save brake pads)

But for this all you need to do is to pre-heat your oven to 450deg. (no this is not a baking lesson!! Haha),
Thoroughly clean the pads with something like alcohol, or disc doctor...
allow them to dry..(we wouldn't want a fire) and then place them face UP on a cookie sheet or like and let them bake for about 2hrs., then shut the oven off, and let them cool slowly (DO NOT dunk them to cool them!!)

What this does is allow any uncured resin to boil and burn away, and stabilizes the rest of the resins in the pad, it also allows any gas pockets in the puck to expand and fissure out of the pad, making the pad more uniform thru out.
There will probably be a smell reminiscent of burning oil so I don't think you will want to bake a cake right after, in fact you will want to air out the oven for a few hours after.

But if you do this the various heat cycles that occur during use will now cause differentiated layers of hardness/brittleness in the pad, making its coefficient of friction more predictable and stable over the entire pad life...
very often you will hear people complain that their brakes "went off" after a few weeks, or after a big race...that is because when the pad is first installed there is a very high coef. of fric. and then the first time that it gets HOT (because it is not stabilized), it hardens on the surface.
A hard pad surface will NOT generate much friction.

Just something to do before your install, and to anyone else who is reading, I suggest this with ALL new pads...
(we do this with ALL race car pads..but not in the household oven)

As far as installing the brakes, the more you do, mechanics wise on your bike the better you will understand how the components actually work, making you better at setting them up, and better at diagnosing faults...
So always take a chance to learn something.

Brian HCM#1 · May 29, 2002

Originally posted by shootr
one thing you can do that will increase the life and the stopping power of your brakes before you install them is to "burnish" the pads..

This is simply putting the pads thru a moderate heat cycle allowing the Resins that bind the friction elements to stabilize.
(for more details than I will give here, you can go to my post in Tech Talk, under "ways to save brake pads)

But for this all you need to do is to pre-heat your oven to 450deg. (no this is not a baking lesson!! Haha),
Thoroughly clean the pads with something like alcohol, or disc doctor...
allow them to dry..(we wouldn't want a fire) and then place them face UP on a cookie sheet or like and let them bake for about 2hrs., then shut the oven off, and let them cool slowly (DO NOT dunk them to cool them!!)

What this does is allow any uncured resin to boil and burn away, and stabilizes the rest of the resins in the pad, it also allows any gas pockets in the puck to expand and fissure out of the pad, making the pad more uniform thru out.
There will probably be a smell reminiscent of burning oil so I don't think you will want to bake a cake right after, in fact you will want to air out the oven for a few hours after.

But if you do this the various heat cycles that occur during use will now cause differentiated layers of hardness/brittleness in the pad, making its coefficient of friction more predictable and stable over the entire pad life...
very often you will hear people complain that their brakes "went off" after a few weeks, or after a big race...that is because when the pad is first installed there is a very high coef. of fric. and then the first time that it gets HOT (because it is not stabilized), it hardens on the surface.
A hard pad surface will NOT generate much friction.

Just something to do before your install, and to anyone else who is reading, I suggest this with ALL new pads...
(we do this with ALL race car pads..but not in the household oven)

As far as installing the brakes, the more you do, mechanics wise on your bike the better you will understand how the components actually work, making you better at setting them up, and better at diagnosing faults...
So always take a chance to learn something.

I've never had that problem with my disc pads, install them clean and you shouldn't have a problem. I have gotten oil & grease on the pads and I just clean the rotor with alcohol, then use a torch of Propane or Mapp gas(I prefer Mapp it burns hotter) run it over the pads for a few seconds then sand them on a flat surface on some emery cloth. This works perfect and it much quicker. This is ony if greasy or oily.

KonaDude · May 30, 2002

Install them yourself. You'll probably do it better than most bike shops would - they tend not to pick up the very good tricks in the instruction manuals... they don't read the instruction manuals!

If you follow what the instruction manual tells you, you'll have some awesome feeling brakes. You can do that pad baking procedure, but it's not necessary.

I would grease all bolts, but the rotor bolts already have Loc-Tite on them, leave them as is.

Good luck, post pics when you're done!

By the way, don't use the cable to adjust the pad distance from the rotor. Get the cable taught, but don't have it pulling the arm much. Adjust the pads closer with the clickers. This is the main mistake I see made when setting up these brakes and it really tends to ruin the good feel.

shootr · May 30, 2002

no, pads will NOT melt at 450 deg..

if you don't think that they get that hot, go on a decent downhill, and then grab your front brake, (DO NOT ACTUALLY DO THIS!!)

the problem with "flaming" the pad is that it embrittles the surface, and has little or no effect on the rest of the pad.

Now for most use this procedure is really a waste of time, if you are a free rider, or a casual DHer, you will never heat cycle your brakes enough for it to matter, but if you are highly competitve, it WILL provide you with an advantage, as a stabilized pad will behave more consistently on your runs, and therefore give you more confidence in your brakes, allowing you to brake later, and harder.

as far as oil contamination, it is really almost impossible to remove all of the contaminants, and if you are competing, I would HIGHLY recomend NOT using previously contaminated pads, (again refer to the thread in tech talk titled "new ways to save your brake pads" <or something like that>)

And KD is exactly right that alot of people set their brakes up incorrectly by setting them via cable tension..
the nicest thing about discs is their incredible feel and feedback, and that will be lost if you set their gap with cable tension.

shootr · May 30, 2002

I would love to come over and check you out...oops I mean...
J/K

Don't bother with Walmart, you will be in the same boat there as you were at sears, just grab your Yellow Pages and see what there is under tools look for a smaller place if you can find an
"SB Simpson Group" memeber you will be set, as they carry just about EVERYTHING in tools and hardware.
major market chain stores will do nothing for you as they cater to the guy who wants a tool box cuz he feels emasculated without one, he watches shows like Bob-Vila's Home again.. and makes
"UGH UGH UGH" sounds at powersaws....

Don't waste your time, shop where professionals shop.

shootr · May 31, 2002

where do you live that they have nothing but walmart and such??
Tibet? Mongolia?, certainly must be at least a 3rd world country...

I got your PM, I tried to send you a msg back, but ..."the person you are trying to contact has a full mailbox, you will have to wait until they clear it out."

Geez you must be popular, do I have to make an appointment to PM you !! hehe.

well I will post my response here, and hope you see it,
(clear out your mailbox!!)

here was my response:
that is great, anytime you have Qs, feel free to ask, BTW if you have Profile Cranks, you will need a SAE hex adaptor (as they are not metric, they have either a 1/4" or 7/32" or 3/16", I am not really sure which but I think most likely the 7/32")

just so you feel comfortable install them UNtorqued a few times (or only once!) before your torque wrench arrives on Monday, and then you will have a better feel of them,and feel more comfortable using the torque wrench on them...
glad of ANY assistance I could provide...

johnbryanpeters · May 31, 2002

You could also stop when you see a Snap-On or Matco truck, both reputable tool companies. Snap-On, however will cost you 2x Craftsman...

One more thing.

Let's say you get a 100 in-lb torque wrench (100 in-lb max reading). It's only going to be accurate from 20 to 80 in-lb. Don't use it at the end of its range.

And another, seemingly obvious: one foot-lb = 12 in-lb.

J

MikeD · Jun 4, 2002

Home Depot sells a decent torque wrench in inch/lbs and N/M... Husky, their own brand. Plus, they have a nice set of metric drivers to go with. Just be careful and keep it in a box my itself, b/c the needle breaks off fairly easily. :mad:

Good luck with the brakes. You'll find that the more you do, the easier it all gets. I was terrible at general mechanical stuff, but I began mtb'ing when I lived out in the desert, and had to learn to do everything myself for lack of an LBS. It's really all pretty simple when you get confident (or desparate) enough. Get a good repair manual, too, like the Zinn guide. It might not cover disc mounting and other new technology, but it's a great basic reference.

MD

LunchBox · Jun 10, 2002

My advise...drink heavily. Beer makes wrenching more fun...and keeps you from getting as frustrated. Ever tried to install 8" rotors, without the correct adapters...yeah...beer. My brakes work now...THANK YOU BEER...namely, Shiner Bock. In fact, it was Shiner Bock that insisted I flip my swing-link...cool, I had a 66 degree head angle...and 3 inches of travel...damn beer...

*perhaps I cannot out-ride you...but I assure you, sir, I can out-drink you*

Plumbutt · Jun 13, 2002

I just installed some Avid sd 7's and it's no biggie. Don't get over whelmed by it.The biggest issue you will problay have is how many spacers to leave in or remove to get the correct setup on the brakes.

Just take it slow and don't get frazzled. if you get frustrated or confused, step back, take a breather, chill and come back with a fresh mind and attitude. You can do it. Remember your not rebuilding the space shuttle.

The LBS's have had practice and have the right tools, that's all. No PHD's involved there.

As far as cables, I feel the flac jackets are over priced and over kill. I'd go with gore tex.

Good luck!

Later

madbiker · Jun 17, 2002

I set my Avid up at 11:30 the night b4 a ride in less than half and hour. (maybe not the smartest thing...) Worked well, but my pads wore out and Avid is having trouble getting us replacements. GRRRR....

KonaDude · Jun 17, 2002

Originally posted by MtnBikerChk
Thanks Shrek - I mean KD! I can't wait to try it!

Yer welcome! If you have any questions, PM me anytime.

Shrek rules.

bomberz1qr20 · Jun 17, 2002

Originally posted by MtnBikerChk
ok - question - I grease the screws, right?

imitating Rob Schneider in "The Water Boy":

"Hyoo cahn do-eet!!"

Welcome to wrenchy land.

When in doubt, grease the threads. That goes for ANY threads on a bike. Grease allows you to get more accurate torque wrench readings, and it inhibits corrosion from binding the threads together.

On new parts, especially stems and the like, I back out the fasteners and grease the threads and any washers. A very thing layer in between any mated parts helps reduce squeaks too.

Finish Line teflon is my current fav. Marine grease is nice too, and cheap at most auto or marine shops.

Exceptions that should have Lock-tite:
Brake bosses and bolts
Rotor bolts
ANY AND ALL bolt on fork parts (braces, stanchions, crowns)
Racks

No grease on (and this is under some debate) square taper BB spindles. Yes the bolts, NOT the faces of the spindle.

phlegm · Jun 26, 2002

Quick tip on all caliper bolts:

Go to your local hardware store, home depot, whatever and pick up some teflon tape. Put it on all the caliper bolt threads before installing.

Make SURE you put the tape on in the opposite direction of the threads, otherwise it will just slide down the bolt.

Some may disagree with me, but I did this when I installed my Avid's and haven't had a bolt come loose once, 6 months later still no loose bolts.

Oh, this also seems to work well with seatpost bolts. Stops creaking too!

phlegm · Jun 26, 2002

Originally posted by johnbryanpeters
And another, seemingly obvious: one foot-lb = 12 in-lb.

J

What's that in Newton Meters?

crazybastard · Jul 6, 2002

it is easier then vbrakes to install

How badly could I screw it up?

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