They make great bikes, but they are somewhat suicidal; they're in their second incarnation.BigMike said:
How come TREK wasn't at Interbike?
- Thread starter trialsmasta
- Start date
Irrational Hatred. Same as I have against Trek, Huffy, and until recently Haro. Although Haro are wavering on the borderline. Oh and let's not forget the POS Diamondback excrete.BigMike said:
Brands of bikes I'd never buy:
Trek, Huffy, Rocky Mountain, DiamondBack, Avanti, Cannondale, Gary Fisher, GT (Mountain bikes), Raleigh, Tomac, Iron Horse... erm that's all I can think of off the top of my head. It's not like I don't think some of them don't make nice bikes. There are a few nice models in some of those ranges. I just don't like the companies. I don't like their style.
Ya'll are crazy! RM makes seriously quality products.
What WILL you buy, then?Changleen said:
I'd consider bikes from most other manufacturers. I like a lot of the boutique brands too. I'd be mostly likely to buy a frame and build my own. I'm pretty well set at the moment, though. I wouldn't mind a full on DH bike, but I doubt I'd use it that much.
Okay I am going to clear up a few things here
-Trek is not bought out by Pacific (where the heck did you hear that?)
-have any of you taken a new Trek out for a ride?
-if Trek is so horrible then why do they do 50% of all the biking business?
-and if anything the specialized hardrock has changed for the worse. My friend has an 02 that has held up from hucking and his sister's 04 that we took out sucks so bad.
-plus Trek can make a bike with a killer spec job for less than the competition. Take the session77 for 05. Basically everything on that bike is near top of the line for only $3400. Any other company with that spec job you better bring you wallet.
Just something to think about.
-Trek is not bought out by Pacific (where the heck did you hear that?)
-have any of you taken a new Trek out for a ride?
-if Trek is so horrible then why do they do 50% of all the biking business?
-and if anything the specialized hardrock has changed for the worse. My friend has an 02 that has held up from hucking and his sister's 04 that we took out sucks so bad.
-plus Trek can make a bike with a killer spec job for less than the competition. Take the session77 for 05. Basically everything on that bike is near top of the line for only $3400. Any other company with that spec job you better bring you wallet.
Just something to think about.
so you are one of those guys that thinks specialized is king of the hill because of FSR right. Pa-lease, there are other awesome bikes out there and they do not need FSR. (I'm sorry, but most people buy a bike for something the company advertises the be the right and only thing to have and well people take it all in)Changleen said:
PS. I'm not ****ting on specialized, I like their ideas and concepts, but there are OTHER bikes out there.
McDonald's sure sells a lot of burgers but they are pretty horrible if you ask me. Quantity says nothing about quality, unless you are talking about the quality of judgment in the buying public.aggrorider said:
Meh. The bike industry throws one big party every year in Vegas, for productive purposes but also for some fun. It's a bummer they didn't see that. Hell Zap Espinoza spouted off for years about the tribe and his company decides to ignore this event? They should have showed up and kicked down to keep the industry insiders stoked on their products. Maybe not everyone could attend the private sessions, and maybe some people that are not trek dealers could have become trek dealers if they had a presence at the show. And given their stated goal of establishing some cred on the DJ, DH and freeride scene, it's surprising they didn't have 77's and the new DH bike at demo, not to mention fisher with that duncan bike (PHD?).
Ah come on, the rational, measured, scientific Changster.........Changleen said:
I can see your dislike of all the other products you list, but Rocky Mountain.........do tell, you must have a reason in there some where.........otherwise one might have to quantify that belief as faith...........*gasp*.........
BTW what do you ride?
Uh no actually. (WTF?? Specialized?)aggrorider said:
I don't much like specialized, but I like where they seem to be going and I like a few of their bikes. I don't think the horst link is by any means the be-all and end-all of suspension technology. My housemate likes them alot, he has an Enduro.
This is consumer preference, dude! Not the future of the worldAndyman_1970 said:Ah come on, the rational, measured, scientific Changster.........
Frankly I don't like their paint jobs, their corporate image, basically I don't like their style. The RM(X) DH bikes were OK, but I think they were a bit of a blip.I can see your dislike of all the other products you list, but Rocky Mountain.........do tell, you must have a reason in there some where.........otherwise one might have to quantify that belief as faith...........*gasp*.........
These days I pretty much ride my Revell.
I also have a Giant AC1, but I haven't ridden it for a looong time.
Thank you! there are a lot of people out there that are not specialized junkies. I find that the people just getting into biking are the ones that are roped in. A lot of people I have noticed are going with lower key (production) companies like sinister, canfield, evil, otherwise the non-mainstream bikes.Changleen said:
I've been riding since I was old enough to stand and I've had a 'proper bike' of some description and been 'involved' since I was about 11 or 12. I'm 27 now. I had a 'Mountain Bike' when they had 10 gears and only one shifter using the amazing new SIS technology.
Any more questions?
Any more questions?
Its so interesting how different people prefer different bikes. Guess thats why there are so many companies
And Changleen, the RMX has never been marketed as a "DH" bike, its always been an "Extreme Freeride" bike, just so you know
And Changleen, the RMX has never been marketed as a "DH" bike, its always been an "Extreme Freeride" bike, just so you know
"Ahem (Taps Mic, Adjusts suit, and glances at Rolex.) Lades and Gentlemen, respected members of the press, Erm, and you.. er.. Dudes, I proudly present to you our new 'Extreme Freeride' range. It's 'totally awesome' for, erm, 'ripping it up' and things. We expect to see a 13% increase in market share combined with a 7% increase in this years dividends based on the growth in the youth market. Extreme!" (Makes thumbs up motion, flashes brilliant white grin - light applause follows).BigMike said:Its so interesting how different people prefer different bikes. Guess thats why there are so many companies
And Changleen, the RMX has never been marketed as a "DH" bike, its always been an "Extreme Freeride" bike, just so you know
OK, I'm being a little harsh.
Trek like many other "For Profit" corporations are prone to confuse the "Midas" touch with the "Medussa's" touch and end up draining the vital blood and soul of wonderful companies Like Keith's little shop in santa cruz and they end up with just a carcass and a legal name to place in a bunch of mostlly half A^^ mediocre mass produce items..
I have the oportunity to meet and spend sometime at the old Bontrager factory (use to be a Importer for them),, man that Happening place, was awesome, look like a monster garage episode (in a good way) people making funky S^^t, experiments all over, testing diferent concepts, sometimes you end up seating on a paint bucket sharing lunch with the guys and the super hot & strong girls, they really were trying new things and walking a thin line testing how far they can go before the part fail, most of them rode to work after surfing in the early morning, if you got lucky (or unlucky if he was having a bad day) you can find keith eating burritos at the corner store across the street.
now with trek they just go for the sure and proven, they don't produce anything with a Edge since the bikes need to fit a very PC criteria,, you know Politically Correct,,A.K.A. not scary, not to fast turning, not to sharp, easy to ride, when to ride a old bontrager you need to know what you were doing if not you are on the floor in no time.....
I sure hope Trek pay a lot of money to keith because most be really sad to see your name plaster all over cheap A^^ parts (well for sure not a good as he use to make).
Gary fisher as much of a "Pionner" as he was,, never really found something super special, he keep changing manufactures every year in seach of a better margin, I did have 3 of his highend bikes in the old days but they were more "Name' than anything else..so not much lost there.
Klein,,,well gary Klein's bikes were the simbol of the Guppies for a long long time and the fancy pretty color adorn the back and top of many Range rover in miami beach and the hollywood hiills but you know what they rode really nice and for a aluminum frame they were very avangard, anyway at the time he release his bikes (around 1984 i believe) gary have prety much all the patents about oversize materials(steel carbon, Bambo,,, whatever) for bicycle use and only guys like Charlie cunninham were ussing aluminum to make frames.
the Klein's of Today,,, oh well not much to say about them since they are just fancyfied Treks with somehow highend paint jobs....but still ride like treks
I also go to meet the super smart Ross shafer,, yes the owner of salsa bicycles in petaluma, man if Keith was Grumpy, Ross was smart and a delight to be around, a brain sharps as a X-acto knive, totally mellow and really warm at heart, the company is own by QBP for the last few years and somehow they are not doing so bad...
In my opinion Trek is like the "Home depot" or even better "ACE Hardware" were if you are not part of them, you have no leverage to survive on a market mostlly driven by a Price Point vision, so yes i dislike trek but somehow understand that they are a necesary Evil, but for sure I don't like how they Convert wonderful companies and with they Medussa (the Mitical figure with the snake hair that convert everything she touch into stone) aproach make them into Inanimete inpersonal carcases.
I do like some of their old steel frame for sometime the 950 frames were a honest answer to the super expensive handmade bikes the same way the old stumpjumpers challenge the little garage shops, but tragically the aluminum craze made those awesome steel frames obsolete and they desapear into just memories of old farts like me.
I have the oportunity to meet and spend sometime at the old Bontrager factory (use to be a Importer for them),, man that Happening place, was awesome, look like a monster garage episode (in a good way) people making funky S^^t, experiments all over, testing diferent concepts, sometimes you end up seating on a paint bucket sharing lunch with the guys and the super hot & strong girls, they really were trying new things and walking a thin line testing how far they can go before the part fail, most of them rode to work after surfing in the early morning, if you got lucky (or unlucky if he was having a bad day) you can find keith eating burritos at the corner store across the street.
now with trek they just go for the sure and proven, they don't produce anything with a Edge since the bikes need to fit a very PC criteria,, you know Politically Correct,,A.K.A. not scary, not to fast turning, not to sharp, easy to ride, when to ride a old bontrager you need to know what you were doing if not you are on the floor in no time.....
I sure hope Trek pay a lot of money to keith because most be really sad to see your name plaster all over cheap A^^ parts (well for sure not a good as he use to make).
Gary fisher as much of a "Pionner" as he was,, never really found something super special, he keep changing manufactures every year in seach of a better margin, I did have 3 of his highend bikes in the old days but they were more "Name' than anything else..so not much lost there.
Klein,,,well gary Klein's bikes were the simbol of the Guppies for a long long time and the fancy pretty color adorn the back and top of many Range rover in miami beach and the hollywood hiills but you know what they rode really nice and for a aluminum frame they were very avangard, anyway at the time he release his bikes (around 1984 i believe) gary have prety much all the patents about oversize materials(steel carbon, Bambo,,, whatever) for bicycle use and only guys like Charlie cunninham were ussing aluminum to make frames.
the Klein's of Today,,, oh well not much to say about them since they are just fancyfied Treks with somehow highend paint jobs....but still ride like treks
I also go to meet the super smart Ross shafer,, yes the owner of salsa bicycles in petaluma, man if Keith was Grumpy, Ross was smart and a delight to be around, a brain sharps as a X-acto knive, totally mellow and really warm at heart, the company is own by QBP for the last few years and somehow they are not doing so bad...
In my opinion Trek is like the "Home depot" or even better "ACE Hardware" were if you are not part of them, you have no leverage to survive on a market mostlly driven by a Price Point vision, so yes i dislike trek but somehow understand that they are a necesary Evil, but for sure I don't like how they Convert wonderful companies and with they Medussa (the Mitical figure with the snake hair that convert everything she touch into stone) aproach make them into Inanimete inpersonal carcases.
I do like some of their old steel frame for sometime the 950 frames were a honest answer to the super expensive handmade bikes the same way the old stumpjumpers challenge the little garage shops, but tragically the aluminum craze made those awesome steel frames obsolete and they desapear into just memories of old farts like me.
Life time warranty on every frame they produce gives you a pretty good idea of the quality they have.OGRipper said:
I agree their FS bikes leave a lot to be desired, but not need to rip on a company's quality when it really isn't much of a problem. They've got their issues, but no less than most companies I've seen in the bike industry.
The Ito
neaky:
This is not the place to do Zapata Espinoza's job (who is Trek's Brand Manager). There are too many industry people and real riders to BS them.aggrorider said:
1. Your claim that Trek has 50% of all biking business. Where did you get that statistic? I looked over Bicycle Retailer's industry stats, and it did mention one interesting number: 6.8 million bikes are sold in mass merchants (like Wal-Mart), where only 3.4 mil are sold in bike shops (like Trek dealers). So how can Trek have half the market when they do not even sell in the biggest retailers? http://www.bicycleretailer.com/bicycleretailer/images/pdf/statistics.pdf
I believe Trek is the largest "speciality" bike manufacturer, and they have done a great job marketing their bikes (like sponsoring the only rider the average person can name). But I am not sure what that has to do with making a good bike.
2. The Hardrock frame is virtually indentical from 2002 to 2006 (both made from oversized A1 tubing). The part spec has significantly improved however (as well as the increased cost). Or is your friend's sister's bike not a good huck machine?
3. The Session 77 is not much different in design than Kona, Banshee, and a hundred other Faux-Bar linkage bikes. As for the wonderful parts spec at $3400, the C/Dale Gemini 2000 and the Iron Horse 7point7 both sell for under that price. And that's only the first two that come to mind.
Thanks for your input about FSR and "the OTHER bikes". Maybe you should let the adults talk for a while.aggrorider said:
The thing about Trek (and Specialized, Cannondale, Giant, Kona, and any other big bike company) is there isn't much fun chatting about their bikes. They have the marketing power and advertising dollars to ensure their bikes end up in people's garages, whether they are great bikes or not. Ultimately, these guys are making bikes for the masses, which can be boring.
Small companies, like Santa Cruz or Seven (which I own one of each), are forced to be innovative because they do not have the marketing power to survive with crappy bikes.
This doesn't mean that one of the big companies cannot construct a great bike. But it is like rooting for the Yankees. Why not root for an underdog?
I'm not saying Trek is the only company out there if that's what you mean. I work at a bike shop that deals Trek/Gary Fisher/Klein and when some people say Trek sucks or whatever most of the time they are just saying just to say it. Half the time the people who say it have never riden one or are saying it because someone else did. Trust me I would get a sinister, maybe a santa cruz, evil any day of the week because like you said they have to work hard to get their product right and usually it is better than their big time competition. Also the head mechanic at the shop I work at rode a ridgid seven cycles SS for awhile, but after his past two races he has come in first and second in a semi-pro race on his ridgid Gary Fisher RIG! I'm not saying a seven cycles is bad (cuz it's not by any means). I rode the thing and at just about 17lbs and king hubs the bike is a speed machine. He rides the rig this time of the year because he is sore and the 29" wheel tones down the pain.
When I said 50% of the business do Wal-Mart bikes really count?
When I said 50% of the business do Wal-Mart bikes really count?
\\ i was totally fixing to use this analogy. i guess i'll ave to stick to rum raisin ice cream then.OGRipper said:
For the people that think Trek is excluding shops that aren't currently dealers, this is because Trek controls who sells their stuff very tightly and it is considered a privledge to be a dealer. It is considered a privledge because Trek pretty much owns the low end mountain bike market and has some pretty good force behind it's road program. The low end mountain bike market are the bread and butter for most shops because they have such a high percentage the shop retains where as with a high end bike or a road bike the shop doesn't make much money. Now to hardcore enthusiasts like most people on this site Trek's aren't the greatest mountain bikes, but to the average consumer looking for a fairly inexpensive bike that is reputable, Trek's offer a lot....decent components plus a killer warranty (and I have witnessed some of the beat to crap frames they warranty, I work at a Trek Dealer). So stop bitching about Trek "not being concerned" with the industry, being money grubbers blah blah because without Trek a lot of your favorite shops could not survive.
Try to pick up a Bicycle Retailer magazine. There has been a long article thread about Trek's business practices concerning the bicycle dealers. They have been trying to muscle their dealers to become 100% only Trek brand shops. They are even trying to force their dealers to become at least 70% Trek, or they could lose their dealership.aggrorider said:
I don't think it is a bad business practice for Trek. They feel they offer a great line of bikes and I know many Trek only dealers which are very happy. However, do you think carrying only one company's bikes gives you a good selection?
Exactly. Specialized did the exact same thing this year out in norcal. Every dealer was flow in and put up on a university campuis in residence. It even included a fancy formal dress ball for the best dealer awards etc, Chi Chi affair indeed.DRB said:
IB had become a really lame deal now. Most people are half drunk, everyone and their mom gets in for free posters, skanks in small outfits abound and they only people who are serious are on taiwan row and you can't understand a damn word they are saying.
Private dealer conferences make MUCH more sense dollar for dollar.