[Jr_Bullit]

"patronizing"?

I know that this is a tough one for me...every now and then someone says "gee jen, you sound kinda patronizing and that pisses me off" when in fact that's definitely not my intention...

Now, I'm moving into a management role here in the company (title/wage negotiations start this week)...

I had to have a tough conversation with a woman who is currently my peer and will soon be someone I manage/supervise...she's 10 years my senior...the conversation wasn't hard because it was that she's doing a bad job, but mostly procedural, she does her job, but she doesn't complete the work and the rest of the team who "should" support her are left hanging without the ability to do their jobs...

She doesn't know that soon she will report to me...my boss asked me to fly solo on this conversation to "see how I did"...

Well...she fell apart, and was very upset that her "manager" didn't bring this stuff to her attention...even though I made it clear from the beginning Rick asked me to do this just one-on-one and not involve her "manager" for little stuff like this...

So anyway...back to the main point...I'm just like my mom - easy to misunderstand what I'm saying because for some reason, when I'm trying to be "serious" and communicate at an honest/accurate level (rather than flighty in accurate stuff just to make someone feel good), I get viewed as "patronizing".

How do you change this?

 

[dh girlie]

you can't...if you're a bitch, you're a bitch...hahaha...just kidding...she's just jealous...women are so damn catty...

 

[SkaredShtles]

Quit patronizing us........

-S.S.-

 

[Jr_Bullit]

you can't...if you're a bitch, you're a bitch...hahaha...just kidding...she's just jealous...women are so damn catty...

Ya...there is that....

:evil:


thought, to be honest, I'm not sure I wanna be the "supervisor/manager" that people call a "bitch" behind her back...call me it to my face but not behind my back...hehehe

 

[SkaredShtles]

Ya...there is that....

:evil:


thought, to be honest, I'm not sure I wanna be the "supervisor/manager" that people call a "bitch" behind her back...call me it to my face but not behind my back...hehehe

Now you're just being catty, bitch.

-S.S.-

 

[Jr_Bullit]

The Mirriam-Webster Definition:

Main Entry: pa·tron·ize
Pronunciation: 'pA-tr&-"nIz, 'pa-
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): -ized; -iz·ing
1 : to act as patron of : provide aid or support for
2 : to adopt an air of condescension toward : treat haughtily or coolly
3 : to be a frequent or regular customer or client of
- pa·tron·i·za·tion /"pA-tr&-n&-'zA-sh&n, pa-/ noun
- pa·tron·iz·ing·ly /'pA-tr&-"nI-zi[ng]-lE, 'pa-/ adverb

Well...I'm guessing it's not meant in the sense of the 1st or 3rd definition...

Isn't it better to give negative information in a cool/calm fashion in order to keep the recipient "cool/calm"? (Obviously in the case, I failed horribly)

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Now you're just being catty, bitch.

-S.S.-

Where's the spitting cat smiley?

 

[Damn True]

Ya...there is that....

:evil:


thought, to be honest, I'm not sure I wanna be the "supervisor/manager" that people call a "bitch" behind her back...call me it to my face but not behind my back...hehehe

I doubt "being pals" with your subordinates will be part of your job description.
You get paid to be productive and ensure the productivity of those in your charge, not to be liked by those people.

 

[Snacks]

Honestly, I know you and you are a patronizing person by any means, so I really wouldn't take her falling apart as a reflection of approach on the subject.

I have found whenever you are telling someone they are doing something wrong (constructive criticizing), no matter how nice and understanding you are saying it, they take it hard.

Don't take it personally. You are in charge now, if you can't get across to your people what you expect out of their job performance it ultimately reflects on your ability to manage.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I doubt "being pals" with your subordinates will be part of your job description.
You get paid to be productive and ensure the productivity of those in your charge, not to be liked by those people.

True....and my boss agrees with that as well, he and I chatted about the "conversation" after it was done...

But, it's certainly not productive to bring out resentment, envy, tears, anger in a coworker, subordinate or not.

He's going to work with me on identifying her "issues" with having "me" be the deliverer of negative news...but is also going to work with me on my delivery method so people I need to communicate with still feel fully respected for the work that they do...

Perhaps that's where the rub is...if you don't "feel" respected does that mean you "feel" patronized against when a coworker tries to point out areas where you have not bothered to change your ways and are causing problems for others?

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Don't take it personally. You are in charge now, if you can't get across to your people what you expect out of their job performance it ultimately reflects on your ability to manage.

Hahaha! Doomed to failure before I even take on the title

I wonder if some of this will "change" when the role change my boss is going to have take on is made public to the company...

 

[DNA]

I have found that people find it hard to be mad at you if you start any critical statement with the word "dude." For example, "Dude, you gotta finish what you start." See, "dude" totally disarms the situation.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I doubt "being pals" with your subordinates will be part of your job description.
You get paid to be productive and ensure the productivity of those in your charge, not to be liked by those people.

If they respect/look up to you then you can give them "advice", but thats the hard part... making it sound like advice.

 

[Snacks]

Hahaha! Doomed to failure before I even take on the title

I wonder if some of this will "change" when the role change my boss is going to have take on is made public to the company...

It might make it easier for others to accept when they here it coming from above.

The statement I made above was in no way to sound you were doomed. Just your employee's actions become your own when you are in charge of them.

 

[dh girlie]

I have found that people find it hard to be mad at you if you start any critical statement with the word "dude." For example, "Dude, you gotta finish what you start." See, "dude" totally disarms the situation.

hahaha! that's great!

 

[dh girlie]

True....and my boss agrees with that as well, he and I chatted about the "conversation" after it was done...

But, it's certainly not productive to bring out resentment, envy, tears, anger in a coworker, subordinate or not.

He's going to work with me on identifying her "issues" with having "me" be the deliverer of negative news...but is also going to work with me on my delivery method so people I need to communicate with still feel fully respected for the work that they do...

Perhaps that's where the rub is...if you don't "feel" respected does that mean you "feel" patronized against when a coworker tries to point out areas where you have not bothered to change your ways and are causing problems for others?

TEARS?!?!?! Man...either you were really mean to her or she is just WAY too freakin sensitive...CRYING at work over work??? Holy cow...this chick needs a reality check...if someones just saying that she's missing a step in her work, she could have said OH...ok...gee I didn't realize I was doing that...but to CRY? What a freakin p*ssy.

What was the approach...was it like the email you sent to the guy about your fork where you sound all sweet and nice and then throw in the f word outta no where? hahaha...that still cracks me up...

 

[wooglin]

This doesn't sound like its your problem. Tell the woman to start acting like the professional she's supposed to be or you'll fire her azz. "Falling apart" is utter BS.

 

[dh girlie]

This doesn't sound like its your problem. Tell the woman to start acting like the professional she's supposed to be or you'll fire her azz. "Falling apart" is utter BS.

No kidding...no one will ever reduce me to tears at work...that's just lame...she needs to get a grip...it's her problem, not yours.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

If they respect/look up to you then you can give them "advice", but thats the hard part... making it sound like advice.

Hrm...this wasn't an "advice giving" session...I didn't think of trying to phrase it like that...

It was an..."I've noticed a few things when working with accounts that seem a bit odd, and I was hoping we could review them and find a clearer process so everyone in the company can work more smoothly with each other"

At which point I went through four clear examples of areas that need work, had her explain what she did, justify it, tell me what would make her life easier, then turned it around a bit and showed how she can help others out...changed some processes, and did a couple take-aways because she's unable to complete a full loop in updating customer contact information when there's turnover in a school district.

I thought it went fairly well, but she was pissed and went crying to Rick and apparently just fell apart on him...

I remember once at a race being told that some people find me patronizing because I will periodically try and join into a conversation and relate to the experiences someone is sharing, and will share my own "experiences" that I thought were of a similar vein...ever since then I've been hyper sensitive to it, because it's not exactly a flattering thing to be called...

 

[DNA]

hahaha! that's great!

I'm not kidding about this. It works for complaining about stuff too. "Dude, this steak is cold" is a guaranteed way to keep the spit off of your food when it comes back.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

No kidding...no one will ever reduce me to tears at work...that's just lame...she needs to get a grip...it's her problem, not yours.

hahaha...true true...working with women as their "supervisor" may start to feel like the days when the UW stuck me as a coxswain in their women's boat...

I'd only worked with men's boats prior to, and had a pretty rough "verbiage" I'd throw at the bastards to make them row harder...name of the game was piss them off enough that they'll try and prove me wrong...

Well the first day in the women's boat, coach set us up to do a "race"...and I cussed at them bitches and told them they weren't good enough, and they could do better, they were strong and they'd better start proving it...etc etc...the usual comparisons to the other boat's position in the race, countdowns , and so on.
Well my boat, which usually never won, actually won this day...(yayyy), but then the girls got out (biiig girls, 6'2 and stuff) and the leaned over me and said with, sniff, tears in their eyes, that they were so offended...

After that day I learned that women just need to be handled with "sensitivity"...I thought I was doing that with Cindy, telling her how great she does at her job, her calls, how I understand it's super demanding to be required to take notes on calls and do proper follow-through...but we needed to change some processes...but I guess it just wasn't quite good enough yet...

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I'm not kidding about this. It works for complaining about stuff too. "Dude, this steak is cold" is a guaranteed way to keep the spit off of your food when it comes back.

Dude to a guy or girl?

 

[Pau11y]

Following DNAs advise, warn her about what you're going to come at her w/ might be a good way to disarm the person. Nothing like a "surprise, you're a screwup!" (I'm sure you didn't do that). In your case maybe something like:
Hey girl, we've got a problem that I need your help w/. It could be I didn't explain my self very clearly last time, but what you're doing is incomplete (not bad or anything, just incomplete), and it's holding up rest of the project team. <then you go on to explain what the problem is and the solution>
If she falls apart at that then I think being too sensitive may be an issue of hers and only hers. Just don't raise your voice at all.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

This doesn't sound like its your problem. Tell the woman to start acting like the professional she's supposed to be or you'll fire her azz. "Falling apart" is utter BS.

I dunno...everyone, professional or not, has a "trigger" wherein they "fall apart", though some people (women) do it by crying, and some people do it through personal attacks, etc...

My boss tries hard to get everyone to communicate always at a level he terms as "accurate" rather than "sincere"...sincere being the level where you gloss over the icky to make someone feel better, but your intentions are good...accurate being, honest, open about how you feel. Sometimes, if you're "reacting" it's good to say something like "I need a few minutes to just process" so you can cool off and think through why this is...

I was trying to be "accurate" with cindy, but she just fell apart...

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Just don't raise your voice at all.

Well that part I can do ...I couldn't imagine actually "raising" my voice at any one, especially in a work environment...

 

[DNA]

Dude to a guy or girl?

Well, it works best for a guy. but I don't see why it wouldn't work with a girl. At worst it will just confuse them. They will be so busy trying to figure out what you mean that they won't have time to cry. Either way, problem solved.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

This doesn't sound like its your problem. Tell the woman to start acting like the professional she's supposed to be or you'll fire her azz. "Falling apart" is utter BS.

Bitch-dude, now you have made me cry...

 

[Greyhound]

Meh......employees throw darts.

Sometimes it's at themselves. Sometimes it's at those in higher positions of authority. You have to learn to let that slide off or you're toast as management.

I'm no Gordon Gecko by any means...... but by that same token, I make sure I do speak to every employee personally in the morning and find out how they're doing, what's up, etc. I communicate to them that I'm here to make their job easier, and that feedback from them is an essential means towards doing that. You let them feel like they are the ones directing the course of production. I call it the "Andy Griffith approach." Direct the person towards making the right decision while all along making them think it was them who came up with the idea. The best thing you can offer any employee is reassurance that their work isn't going unnoticed. That being said.....you can count on the occasional wild card that just doesn't want to play ball. That sucks, and makes your job difficult. But, you have to either dig deeper, and find a more resourceful way of getting your point across, or get rid of the problem.

 

[Pau11y]

After that day I learned that women just need to be handled with "sensitivity"....

In my dealing, I get to the point PDQ. I'm not rude, but very to the point; problem, ID cause and its effects, then offer solution(s). I think being too sensitive makes you uglier than if you go at the problem directly.

 

[dh girlie]

I'm not kidding about this. It works for complaining about stuff too. "Dude, this steak is cold" is a guaranteed way to keep the spit off of your food when it comes back.

I know...and I agree...its just the way you put it was funny as hell...

 

[SkaredShtles]

<snip>
If she falls apart at that then I think being too sensitive may be an issue of hers and only hers. Just don't raise your voice at all.

How about try the tack I take with my kids when they fall apart - I tell 'em to "GET HOLD OF YOURSELF, MAN!! It's not the end of the world for cryin' out loud"............

Maybe not.

-S.S.-

 

[reflux]

When my bosses and coworkers help me to correct my mistakes and keep me in line, they get straight to the point and DO NOT do the small talk and crap like that. By keeping things on track and solely on the business we get tihings done without the personal aspect. Also, it'll be tough for anyone for anyone to cast you as patronizing when the ONLY thing you're doing is your job. Does any of this make sense?

 

[dh girlie]

hahaha...true true...working with women as their "supervisor" may start to feel like the days when the UW stuck me as a coxswain in their women's boat...

I'd only worked with men's boats prior to, and had a pretty rough "verbiage" I'd throw at the bastards to make them row harder...name of the game was piss them off enough that they'll try and prove me wrong...

Well the first day in the women's boat, coach set us up to do a "race"...and I cussed at them bitches and told them they weren't good enough, and they could do better, they were strong and they'd better start proving it...etc etc...the usual comparisons to the other boat's position in the race, countdowns , and so on.
Well my boat, which usually never won, actually won this day...(yayyy), but then the girls got out (biiig girls, 6'2 and stuff) and the leaned over me and said with, sniff, tears in their eyes, that they were so offended...

After that day I learned that women just need to be handled with "sensitivity"...I thought I was doing that with Cindy, telling her how great she does at her job, her calls, how I understand it's super demanding to be required to take notes on calls and do proper follow-through...but we needed to change some processes...but I guess it just wasn't quite good enough yet...

Damn...maybe those women...maybe I just run with a rough crowd!

 

[Pau11y]

Damn...maybe those women...maybe I just run with a rough crowd!

Weeeell, you are on the friggin' Monkey w/ ppl like me and SS around

 

[JRB]

How about try the tack I take with my kids when they fall apart - I tell 'em to "GET HOLD OF YOURSELF, MAN!! It's not the end of the world for cryin' out loud"............

Maybe not.

-S.S.-

Speaking of English...what the hell are you saying???

 

[dh girlie]

Speaking of English...what the hell are you saying???

Oh! OHHHH! Skaredshthead got called the F out!

 

[JRB]

Oh! OHHHH! Skaredshthead got called the F out!

He'll have some lame ass excuse about his hair getting in his eyes or some crap.

 

[SkaredShtles]

Speaking of English...what the hell are you saying???

<sigh>

OK - English lesson for the day, class:

tack P Pronunciation Key (tk)
To change one's course of action.

In my case, it's a change in the course of action on my part in an attempt to alter the child's behavior.........

Sometimes it's sooooooo hard dealing with deficients.

-S.S.-

 

[I Are Baboon]

I have found that people find it hard to be mad at you if you start any critical statement with the word "dude." For example, "Dude, you gotta finish what you start." See, "dude" totally disarms the situation.

Holy cow, that's just crazy enough to work! Why didn't I think of that?

 

[dh girlie]

Weeeell, you are on the friggin' Monkey w/ ppl like me and SS around

Well...maybe...but not likely...maybe you guys keep the fire lit in me...I've been fresh and sassy for as long as I can remember...I do think it does have something to do with the fact that wwwaaaaayyyyy back in the day when I first started mtn biking, I didn't know too many girls that did it and I had to ride with the guys...so I think that that probably upped my sassy level quite a bit. I learned to be just as obnoxious and disgusting as them...although I never quite got into the breakfast table discussions on ride trips about their morning poo's and strippers and boobs.

The other day, one of my friends from back in the day...he was telling me he had this saddle sore...he's become a roadie...and I was like no way...where? On your gooch?!?!? How do you get in and out of the car...I guess you're not doing any squats at the gym! How did you show the doctor? did you bend over or lay on a gynecologic exam table with your feet in the air? How do you position yourself to apply the salve? and pretty much made a mockery of the whole thing. No, gee I'm sorry to hear that! HA! He can thank himself for that little diatribe! BAHAHAHA!