[Changleen]

Maybe a far shorter list would be "Things the Bush administration has done a good job of" - And not sarcastic comments like 'They've done a good job of creating more terrorists'.

Hmm. I actually can't think of a single example of pre-emptive benevolent behaviour by them.

OK, My list, sorry if there are duplications:

2000 Election - Florida/Jeb scandal
Stupid tax policy
9/11 Failures / botched inquiry
Afghanistan - Under resourced, ill conceived and poorly executed installation of 'democracy' in a 5 mile radius of the centre of Green Zone. Thousands of civilian deaths.
Homeland Security / civil rights stomping
Roll back of Environmental protections, massive irresponsibility
No child left behind crap
Public presentation and handling of the 'WoT'
Iraq - Everything about it - tens and tens of thousands of deaths
America's reputation ruined
Sex 'education' idiocy - thousands of deaths, AIDS, unneccassary suffering, unwanted children etc.
Outright lies and hypocracy to public about many policy issues
Utter pandering to the interests of large corps. at the expense anything and anyone else
Polarization of the world

Man, this is depressing. I'm gonna take a break...

 

[LordOpie]

If they had been held for any amount of time without charges then y'all would be screaming that their civil rights had been violated.

Not true at all... we're very happy when the rich get fvcked over.

They were driven to their waiting planes by the Feds, not grilled.

 

[DRB]

Which congress did not approve...Which is the problem, and is the beginning of the US's loss of any moral upper hand they could claim to any moderate Muslims. This type of thing made Muslims hate Bush and America. In essence, Bush made the situation
worse than it was already.That's just great. Bush starts a war, and hundreds of probably largely innocent bystanders are locked up for the rest of their lives. Awesome. Worse than being locked up for the rest of their lives? I'd rather be dead. BS. They were driven to their waiting planes by the Feds, not grilled. Now you're being naieve, on purpose I think. But you don't believe that. You can't have it both ways.

I hate this cutting of a post apart because you can't structure any sort of reply beyond half a sentence. So I'll let you figure out which parts I'm responding to.

Largely innocent bystanders? Again where do you get that? So was no one fighting back in Afghanistan.

Not naive realistic. Folks get bent out of shape when a Muslim who happens to have a name similar to one on a watch list gets detained for any period of time in an Airport. So I can pretty much bet that someone would have gotten way bent about not letting Arabs leave the country when they want.

You want to believe that the FBI didn't interrogate or grill these folks and that's fine. The US government says white you say black, I got it. How long do you have to hold them before it would have been acceptable to let them go? And let's figure that the ones we are really talking about were Bin Laden's family. Can't you fathom that the FBI would have been watching them like hawks even prior to 9/11 and had a pretty freakin' idea of what they had been up to, who they had talked to. Oh but that would be a violation of their civil rights because they are simply related to Bin Laden, you know guilt by association.

Both ways is exactly how it seems you want it. Even in your list you mention the trampling of civil rights. Lock someone up who by all legitimate accounts was not even remotely involved and let those go that were involved in armed conflict with a pat on the head and an apology.

 

[sanjuro]

Not to change the subject...

Brown Discussed Wardrobe During Katrina

Thu Nov 3,12:48 PM ET

Newly-released e-mails show former FEMA director Michael Brown discussing his wardrobe during the crisis caused by Hurricane Katrina.

A House panel has released 23 pages of internal e-mail offering additional evidence of a confused and distracted government response to Katrina, particularly from Brown, the former head of Federal Emergency Management Agency, at critical moments after the storm hit.

The e-mails show that Brown, who had been planning to step down from his post when the storm hit, was preoccupied with his image on television even as one of the first FEMA officials to arrive in New Orleans, Marty Bahamonde, was reporting a crisis situation of increasing chaos to FEMA officials.

"My eyes must certainly be deceiving me. You look fabulous — and I'm not talking the makeup," writes Cindy Taylor, FEMA's deputy director of public affairs to Brown on 7:10 a.m. local time on Aug. 29.

"I got it at Nordstroms," Brown writes back. "Are you proud of me? Can I quit now? Can I go home?" An hour later, Brown adds: "If you'll look at my lovely FEMA attire, you'll really vomit. I am a fashion god."

A week later, Brown's aide, Sharon Worthy, reminds him to pay heed to his image on TV. "In this crises and on TV you just need to look more hardworking ... ROLL UP THE SLEEVES!" Worthy wrote, noting that even President Bush "rolled his sleeves to just below the elbow."

Some lawmakers immediately decried the e-mails.

The e-mails "depict a leader who seemed overwhelmed and rarely made key decisions," said U.S. Rep. Charlie Melancon, D-La. He criticized Brown for addressing "superficial subjects — such as Mr. Brown's appearance or reputation — rather than the pressing response needs of Louisiana and Mississippi."

 

[LordOpie]

Plus, Brown was hired after he quit as a consultant to review how FEMA failed.

WTF?

Our govt has officially become a Dilbert cartoon.

 

[DRB]

Plus, Brown was hired after he quit as a consultant to review how FEMA failed.

WTF?

Our govt has officially become a Dilbert cartoon.

What is so hard about getting facts straight in here. He was not rehired. He resigned but at FEMAs request worked an additional 2 weeks to advise on the things that he had been working on prior to Katrina and so he would be available to Legislative committee without being suspenoned.

No one was more critical of Brown on this board then me but at least get it right.

 

[Andyman_1970]

Where's N8 and company, it would be interesting to see their responses to this.
































**crickets**

 

[H8R]

Where's N8 and company, it would be interesting to see their responses to this.

I'm waiting for his standard "At least it's not Clinton" response.

 

[vallEbikes]

patriot act

 

[LordOpie]

What is so hard about getting facts straight in here. He was not rehired. He resigned but at FEMAs request worked an additional 2 weeks to advise on the things that he had been working on prior to Katrina and so he would be available to Legislative committee without being suspenoned.

No one was more critical of Brown on this board then me but at least get it right.

Brown is still on the federal payroll at his $148,000 annual salary. Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff, saying Brown's expertise was needed as he investigated what went wrong, agreed to a 30-day extension when Brown resigned. Chertoff renewed that extension in mid-October.

Still getting paid, still not qualified.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/03/brown.fema.emails/index.html

 

[H8R]

patriot act

Ah geez.

Cans of worms today. We have PALLETS of them.

 

[Changleen]

I hate this cutting of a post apart because you can't structure any sort of reply beyond half a sentence. So I'll let you figure out which parts I'm responding to.

Lazy.

Largely innocent bystanders? Again where do you get that? So was no one fighting back in Afghanistan.

HELLO? Wednesday: You're a peasent goathearder in Afghanistan. Thursday Morning: The most powerfull country in the world attacks and carpet bombs your country with technology you never even heard of because 19 hijackers from another country several thousand miles away have alledgedly attacked them. You have no where to run. What do you do besides die?

Not naive realistic. Folks get bent out of shape when a Muslim who happens to have a name similar to one on a watch list gets detained for any period of time in an Airport. So I can pretty much bet that someone would have gotten way bent about not letting Arabs leave the country when they want.

Falling back on the 1/0 now eh? There's a subtle difference between detaining a regular Arab Joe because Jonny Airportguy can't differentiate between Al-Musafa and Al-Mustifa and allowing the KNOWN NEXT OF KIN of apparantly the biggest terrorist ever know leave the country within 36 hrs of the attack!

You want to believe that the FBI didn't interrogate or grill these folks and that's fine. The US government says white you say black, I got it.

http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11cover-up10pg

How long do you have to hold them before it would have been acceptable to let them go? And let's figure that the ones we are really talking about were Bin Laden's family. Can't you fathom that the FBI would have been watching them like hawks even prior to 9/11 and had a pretty freakin' idea of what they had been up to, who they had talked to. Oh but that would be a violation of their civil rights because they are simply related to Bin Laden, you know guilt by association.

What does the actual law say should have done with them? How about that for a start?

Both ways is exactly how it seems you want it. Even in your list you mention the trampling of civil rights. Lock someone up who by all legitimate accounts

Whose accounts? The Governments? Greeaaat!!

was not even remotely involved and let those go that were involved in armed conflict with a pat on the head and an apology.

These people were only involved in armed conflict because the US started one in their backyard!

 

[Westy]

Where's N8 and company, it would be interesting to see their responses to this.

N8 really hasn't shown his face in here after the disgusting display between him and his wife. She pretty much outed him as being a closet liberal anyway.

 

[Changleen]

N8 really hasn't shown his face in here after the disgusting display between him and his wife. She pretty much outed him as being a closet liberal anyway.

Oh, linky please! I missed that!

 

[kidwoo]

Oh, linky please! I missed that!

Yeah!!!

gimme gimme gimme

 

[H8R]

N8 really hasn't shown his face in here after the disgusting display between him and his wife. She pretty much outed him as being a closet liberal anyway.

I don't think he's married. I think that's his transgendered alter-ego.

 

[Westy]

Much of it was deleted after some sobering up was done.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133427&page=4

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133100&page=2

I hope y'all have strong stomachs, some pretty sickening stuff.

 

[Changleen]

Much of it was deleted after some sobering up was done.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133427&page=4

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133100&page=2

I hope y'all have strong stomachs, some pretty sickening stuff.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[H8R]

Wow. Just wow.

No sh!t.

I had to re-swallow some barf there.

 

[kidwoo]

Much of it was deleted after some sobering up was done.

I hope y'all have strong stomachs, some pretty sickening stuff.

So if he's not actually a stupid prick then he's actually a stupid prick for only pretending to be a stupid prick. I know he thinks it's funny to in his mind "make you dance" but like SS said in one of those threads......he's really not funny. And hearing his wife talk like that makes me feel icky inside.

ick.

 

[Changleen]

Just re-reading these pages:

http://www.wanttoknow.info/9-11cover-up10pg

I think y'all should too!

 

[H8R]

So if he's not actually a stupid prick then he's actually a stupid prick for only pretending to be a stupid prick.

I'm sure there are many people on RM that are guilty of this.


Not me of course.

 

[Changleen]

Nov 12, 2001—Mar 25, 2002: 13 renowned microbiologists mysteriously die over the span of less than five months. All but one or two are killed or murdered under unusual circumstances. Some are world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others are the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others are experts in the theory of bioterrorism. [Globe and Mail, 5/4/02, New York Times 08/11/02] Nov 12: Benito Que, 52, an expert in infectious diseases—killed in carjacking, later deemed possible stroke. [Globe and Mail, 5/4/02] Nov. 16: Don Wiley, 57, one of the world's leading researchers of deadly viruses—body found in Mississippi River. [CNN, 12/22/01] Nov 21: Dr. Vladimir Pasechnik, 64, an expert in adapting germs and viruses for military use—stroke. [New York Times, 11/23/01] Dec 10: Dr. Robert Schwartz, 57, a leading researcher on DNA sequencing analysis—slain at home. [Washington Post, 12/12/01] Dec 14: Nguyen Van Set, 44, his research organization had just come to fame for discovering a virus which can be modified to affect smallpox—dies in an airlock in his lab. [Sydney Morning Herald, 12/12/01] Jan 2002: Ivan Glebov (bandit attack) and Alexi Brushlinski (killed in Moscow), both world-renowned members of the Russian Academy of Science. [Pravda, 2/9/02] Feb 9: Victor Korshunov, 56, head of the microbiology sub-faculty at the Russian State Medical University—killed by cranial injury. [Pravda, 2/9/02] Feb 11: Ian Langford, 40, one of Europe's leading experts on environmental risk—murdered in home. [London Times, 2/13/02] Feb 28 (2): Tanya Holzmayer, 46, helped create drugs that interfere with replication of the virus that causes AIDS, and Guyang Huang, 38, a brilliant scholar highly regarded in genetics—murder/suicide. [San Jose Mercury News, 2/28/02] Mar 24: David Wynn-Williams, 55, an astrobiologist with NASA Ames Research Center—killed while jogging. [London Times, 3/27/02] Mar 25: Steven Mostow, 63, an expert on the threat of bioterrorism—private plane crash. [KUSA TV/NBC, 3/26/02]

Hmmmm.

 

[kidwoo]

Hmmmm.

Sounds like we got a microbe rebellion on our hands.

Little bastards. Caint shoot'em with muh 10 guage.

 

[DRB]

And your link is telling me that the pipeline is part of the whole Afghanistan thing. Also your links in the past have told me that 9/11 was a fake. When are you going to start posting that some of the hijackers are still alive. Excuse me if I put about as much stock into it as I would government reports on the matter.

Richard Clarke said the following in the 9/11 hearings

CLARKE: I was aware, for some time, that there were members of the bin Laden family living in the United States.

And, let's see, in open session I can say that I was very well aware of the members of the bin Laden family and what they were doing in the United States. And the FBI was extraordinarily well aware of what they were doing in the United States. And I was informed by the FBI that none of the members of the bin Laden family, this large clan, were doing anything in this country that was illegal or that raised their suspicions.

And I believe the FBI had very good information and good sources of information on what the members of the bin Laden family were doing.

Here is a government that was completely incapable of suscessfully leaking the name of a CIA agent without completely cocking the whole thing up but they are capable of the conspiracies that would involved tens of thousands of people.

There the only conspiracy is the one of incompetence. Plain and simple the rest is a bunch of unsubstaniated crap that gives the administration more credit than they deserve. But keep playing into their hands.

 

[LordOpie]

DRB, did you see my post updating the Brown situation?

 

[DRB]

DRB, did you see my post updating the Brown situation?

So what? At least he didn't he a $1000000 severance package.

 

[LordOpie]

So what? At least he didn't he a $1000000 severance package.

so you were wrong about us posting stuff without checking our facts, thanks for that acknowledgement

 

[Changleen]

And your link is telling me that the pipeline is part of the whole Afghanistan thing. Also your links in the past have told me that 9/11 was a fake. When are you going to start posting that some of the hijackers are still alive. Excuse me if I put about as much stock into it as I would government reports on the matter.

But DRB, some of the people the Gov. said were hijackers *are* alive..

Here is a government that was completely incapable of suscessfully leaking the name of a CIA agent without completely cocking the whole thing up but they are capable of the conspiracies that would involved tens of thousands of people.

There the only conspiracy is the one of incompetence. Plain and simple the rest is a bunch of unsubstaniated crap that gives the administration more credit than they deserve. But keep playing into their hands.

You have a fundamental inability to see things in grey don't you? 'Either something is like this, or it's like that.' So I can't post that oil had something to do with Afghanistan if I later post another reason? (Excluding when I'm drunk..)

And seriously, 'unsubstantiated' WTF are you talking about? I post a link to a page which record a whole heap of incidents, each fairly widely reported, with actual links to those actual reports. When looked at collectivly these incidents look highly suspicious. What part of that is unsubstantiated? Do you actually need an authority figure to join the dots for you? It sure seems like it sometimes.

Also you said:"Here is a government that was completely incapable of suscessfully leaking the name of a CIA agent without completely cocking the whole thing up but they are capable of the conspiracies that would involved tens of thousands of people." Except that exactly the same thing has happened - People are questioning what occured. People are saying 'wait a minute'. It's only people like you who refusing to see the inobjectivity of your own position.

Situation 1: Gov does something illegal. Reporters twig, dig into it. Gov makes conflicting statements over a period of time. You criticise government.

Situation 2: Gov does something illegal. Reporters twig, dig into it. Gov makes many many conflicting statements over a period of time. You criticise reporters.

The only difference is the scale. There is more evidence of malinfluence over 9/11 than there is in the Plame case, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

 

[Andyman_1970]

That's some wacky poo about N8, I would have never figured that.........

 

[DRB]

You have a fundamental inability to see things in grey don't you? 'Either something is like this, or it's like that.' So I can't post that oil had something to do with Afghanistan if I later post another reason? (Excluding when I'm drunk..)

What does a direct contradiction between your points have to do with seeing things in grey. Either you are wrong now or you were wrong then. I don't feel like digging the quotes up but you know exactly what I am talking about. Its not an isolated incident with the whole pipeline thing either, its over and over and over that you do it. Think about it. Some of your first posts in here were about the conspiracy that a plane wasn't what crashed into the Pentagon and planes alone didn't cause the Twin Towers to crash. If this is in fact the case then your fact sheet you posted is pretty much crap. Again, its not an expansion of an idea BUT a direct contradiction to a previous stance.

As for what you can post, I could honestly careless except when you attribute something to me that I never said.

And seriously, 'unsubstantiated' WTF are you talking about? I post a link to a page which record a whole heap of incidents, each fairly widely reported, with actual links to those actual reports. When looked at collectivly these incidents look highly suspicious. What part of that is unsubstantiated? Do you actually need an authority figure to join the dots for you? It sure seems like it sometimes.

See you are missing the point as usual.
And I can go on the internet and show you sites where people are going 'wait a minute' here is evidence of the following:

1. Aliens landed at Roswell and the US has been covering it up ever since.
2. That Timothy McVeigh's truck bomb wasn't what cause all the destruction in Oklahoma City.
3. Man hasn't landed on the moon.
4. The British secret service actually killed Princess Di.
5. Isreal was behind 9/11
6. John Lennon was killed by Stephen King and Ronald Reagan.

They have all taken "facts" like you "connected the dots" with them and then come up with some of the stupidest things ever devised.

I see what is listed as fact on your little link and then I read the actual links and I see lots of words like alleged, unsubstaniated, and unconfirmed. Whoever created the page basically says that the mainstream media can't be trusted but that's what he uses to create this page.... Bin Laden met with the CIA in August of 2001 in Dubai..... please. If I bought into the whole kit and kaboodle, I would have expected the hospital to be bombed and everyone that could have possibly seen or heard anything die in an accidental run in with gravity.

But the reality is that much of what's there is real, especially about the warnings. And this is the sad part that is missed by those looking for the conspiracy. It doesn't point to some grandiose conspiracy, it points to two things. First a failure of imagination. They heard the warnings but discounted them as too outlandish and impossible to actually implement which is really a direct result from the seond thing.
Incompetence in areas that are frought with political appointments with no real world experience.

I think it makes you feel better that smart men are running a gigantic conspiracy instead of it simply being unqualified dumba$$es too stupid to react to the simplest of ideas. Whatever makes it easier for you to sleep at night.

Also you said:"Here is a government that was completely incapable of suscessfully leaking the name of a CIA agent without completely cocking the whole thing up but they are capable of the conspiracies that would involved tens of thousands of people." Except that exactly the same thing has happened - People are questioning what occured. People are saying 'wait a minute'. It's only people like you who refusing to see the inobjectivity of your own position.

Situation 1: Gov does something illegal. Reporters twig, dig into it. Gov makes conflicting statements over a period of time. You criticise government.

Situation 2: Gov does something illegal. Reporters twig, dig into it. Gov makes many many conflicting statements over a period of time. You criticise reporters.

The only difference is the scale. There is more evidence of malinfluence over 9/11 than there is in the Plame case, but you refuse to acknowledge it.

I jumped all over Rove and Libby on numerous occassions because they did something that I find reprehensible and then they lied when they got caught on it. I jumped on the reporters that allowed themselves to be used to that end and then wouldn't come clean about it. What's not objective about that. I have been steadfast on both points since this first came out.

Your definition of evidence is much different than mine.

 

[Changleen]

I love DRB!

 

[Changleen]

What does a direct contradiction between your points have to do with seeing things in grey. Either you are wrong now or you were wrong then. I don't feel like digging the quotes up but you know exactly what I am talking about.

You are talking about the pipeline thing only and the 'drunkpost' I made. That's it.

Its not an isolated incident with the whole pipeline thing either, its over and over and over that you do it.

No it's not. Show me if you recon that's true.

Think about it. Some of your first posts in here were about the conspiracy that a plane wasn't what crashed into the Pentagon and planes alone didn't cause the Twin Towers to crash.

I stand by the assertion that whatever happened to the Pentagon was probably not caused by a large Boeing. I also posted stuff from people who suggested the type of plane that crashed into the WTC was not what it should have been, or was modified, but not that it was not a plane. It was clearly a plane. It had wings and stuff.
The points I've posted about the planes alone not being enough to bring down the towers, that statement "The planes did not bring down the towers alone" I still feel is correct. We need to be straighter with each other, darling.

If this is in fact the case then your fact sheet you posted is pretty much crap. Again, its not an expansion of an idea BUT a direct contradiction to a previous stance.

How? I feel like you miss the diferentiation between what I consider to be BS and what I consider to be more correct. Again, maybe I should walk you through this more. More importantly, the major questions I am asking are not affected by the type of flying thing that hit a particular building. I don't see any contradictions from my POV and I sometimes feel you focus on topics which are largely not the point I intend to make when I bring things up.

As for what you can post, I could honestly careless except when you attribute something to me that I never said.

Just enjoy the no-repercussions arguing. It's healthy.

See you are missing the point as usual.

Ditto.

And I can go on the internet and show you sites where people are going 'wait a minute' here is evidence of the following:

1. Aliens landed at Roswell and the US has been covering it up ever since.
2. That Timothy McVeigh's truck bomb wasn't what cause all the destruction in Oklahoma City.
3. Man hasn't landed on the moon.
4. The British secret service actually killed Princess Di.
5. Isreal was behind 9/11
6. John Lennon was killed by Stephen King and Ronald Reagan.

They have all taken "facts" like you "connected the dots" with them and then come up with some of the stupidest things ever devised.

No, they really don't. 9/11 has solid, publically acknowledged events which contradict directly the account the government gives of the events. (Pilots are still alive, WTC 7 collapsed on it's own but owner is recorded asking for it to be 'pulled') It also has many examples of behaviour which are completely out of what would be considered rational or normal even in other disasters. (Cheney requesting specifically no investigation be made, steel removed and melted for scrap without being tested in record time) I have posted many of these in the past. I have offered you many times the fact that WTCs 1+2 fell faster than physics would suggest, you have no argument other than 'your assumptions must be wrong', despite many of them being based on visible, recorded evidence. This is not the same thing as denial of the moon landing. Who else was at the moon? There is no hard verifiable evidence of contradiction in those cases. There is on 9/11.

I see what is listed as fact on your little link and then I read the actual links and I see lots of words like alleged, unsubstaniated, and unconfirmed.

When talking about possible motives yes, not when dealing with the realities of situations. What is alledged about the actual deaths of bioweapons scientists? They are all dead, and they died in a very compact and unlikely timeframe. The unknown details of the specifics of each death are 'alledged' but it doesn't change the big picture, any more than knowing which American bullet hit which Iraq in which organ changes the situation in Iraq. It all adds up to a lot of big questions.

Whoever created the page basically says that the mainstream media can't be trusted but that's what he uses to create this page....

Frankly that has zero weight. When he refers to his lack of trust he means in terms of his trust in them to draw the correct conclusions or to follow a logical trail to it's end. He uses supposed unrelated, or stories which the media have not tried to relate to draw a bigger picture, as any good investigator should. He laments the failure of the media to do this, not their actual reportage.

He uses the Bin Laden met with the CIA in August of 2001 in Dubai..... please. If I bought into the whole kit and kaboodle,

That phrase is Kitten Caboodle, meaning a crazy mess, BTW

I would have expected the hospital to be bombed and everyone that could have possibly seen or heard anything die in an accidental run in with gravity.

Admittedly that report is fairly shallow in the evidence department, and the whole 'Osama being treated for kidney stones' is highly dubius, but that episode in itself has no bearing on the many many other examples which are bourne out by verifiable events and facts. It is, however still plausible that he recieved treatment in the UAE and notably the White House does not deny this, only the director of the Hospital does. The White House just claims that he was not visited by the CIA. Oh and this was in July, not Aug, BTW.

But the reality is that much of what's there is real, especially about the warnings.

I'm glad you don't deny the more obvious aspects of the stories.

And this is the sad part that is missed by those looking for the conspiracy. It doesn't point to some grandiose conspiracy, it points to two things. First a failure of imagination. They heard the warnings but discounted them as too outlandish and impossible to actually implement

Possibly, but to me the repeated warnings and incidences of planes + buildings being mentioned, and the US itself running a drill on this exact scenareo: "Sept 11, 2001: In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, a US intelligence agency (the National Reconnaissance Office or NRO) was all set for an exercise at 9 AM on September 11th in which an aircraft would crash into one of its buildings near Washington, DC." followed by the governments direct denials afterwards that such a thing had even been imagined is just too much to swallow. C'mon, you have to admit it just looks soooo shady.

which is really a direct result from the seond thing.
Incompetence in areas that are frought with political appointments with no real world experience.

This is often true, but the story does not just involve the government. It includes some very rich, very motivated and highly compentant exceptional people. I'm sure Bush didn't think of this himslef, to take your argument to the extreme. And to me there are simply too many coincidences and questions to just put down to vast incompetance.

I think it makes you feel better that smart men are running a gigantic conspiracy instead of it simply being unqualified dumba$$es too stupid to react to the simplest of ideas. Whatever makes it easier for you to sleep at night.

It doesn't make me feel better nor does it help me sleep. I simply have reviewed the evidence that is availible to me, and I honestly do discount 'alledged' and unsubstantiated aspects of the story and I still find some big questions need answering. I am suprised you do not.

 

[MMike]

Oh my god... Are they like...15?

You're Shmoopie!!

No YOU'RE Shmoopie!!!!

Much of it was deleted after some sobering up was done.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133427&page=4

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133100&page=2

I hope y'all have strong stomachs, some pretty sickening stuff.

 

[fluff]

That's some wacky poo about N8, I would have never figured that.........

Yeah, I'm saddened. I also feel dirty for creating N8.1.. <shudder>

 

[Westy]

Oh my god... Are they like...15?

You're Shmoopie!!

No YOU'RE Shmoopie!!!!

You should have seen the stuff that was deleted, I'm still having nightmares.

 

[narlus]

You should have seen the stuff that was deleted, I'm still having nightmares.

what sort of sordid lows did they reach? total depravity?

 

[Westy]

what sort of sordid lows did they reach? total depravity?

I've been getting electroshock therapy in an attempt to wipe it from my memory but there was some back and forth between N8 and bride of N8 about piercing different body parts. Now if you will excuse me, I need to go brush my teeth, the taste of bile is overwhelming me right now.

 

[narlus]

"bride of N8".

that's funny.

 

[MMike]

But it's obvious that they must love each other so very much more than the rest of us and our respective counterparts....