[fourgivn1]

Just did a bit of searching, because I was wondering how this was proceeding....it would seem that both the wife AND daughter of Michael Newdow, the man who brought the pledge of allegiance lawsuit against the SF school system, are Christian and attend Calvary Chapel in Elk Grove, CA; and on top of that, the daughter has no problem saying the pledge.

So my question is this; why is it wrong for the government to provide for the opportunity to say the Pledge (or abstain), but yet not wrong for the father to bring a lawsuit against the SF school system for 'forcing' his daughter to say it - when she's not being forced?

Discuss!

 

[Toshi]

I think the actions of the family are worthy of praise. They've stood up for freedom even when they personally didn't mind said freedom being abridged.

 

[fourgivn1]

That's just it. Personally I have no problem with Michael Newdow having a differing view, and in all honesty, I don't care if they do or don't have the pledge of allegiance in schools. People will still believe what they want to believe.

BUT I think it a bit odd that the father is the ONLY one who has a problem with it, and the wife and daughter do not. Granted, the father is the head of the family, and can do what's right for his family. But on the other hand, the wife and daughter are Christian...and I think it is obvious that Christians and non-Christians live their lives under 2 different sets of rules (somewhat), since Christians derive almost every viewpoint they hold from the Book, while non-Christians do not. I guess this could be another political question/religious question - whether or not people think that a father has the right to essentially force his own viewpoint upon his children/family, if the rest of his family holds to a different belief set and therefore do not agree with the father.

 

[Toshi]

There has to be some room for personal interpretation of the Bible. After all, disagreement among Christians does exist, as hard as that may be to believe. Maybe I'm just being overly sympathetic to the father because I agree with him, but I see nothing wrong in his actions.

 

[Damn True]

Seems like a PO'd ex husband trying to embroil the life of his ex wife via his daughter.....classy.

 

[stringcheese]

They're Christian? I saw that guy on the news a little while ago talking about how his daughter felt offended that she had to say under God.

 

[Spud]

fourgivn1 -

I've been following this story for a while. This info on the wife and daughter being Christians is news to me. Would you please post your links to this info?

 

[fourgivn1]

I WILL note (and I admit I forgot to note in the post above) that while I have not searched extensively on websites, the 2 or 3 that report this fact do happen to be Christian sites...and in all fairness to those whose viewpoints do not coincide with mine, such as Toshi, I'd personally like to read in from a 'non-biased' source just to make sure. For instance, the first place I heard about it was from www.falwell.org, and I may be Christian, but even though I don't think the guy is a lying sack of @#$@#, neither would I trust everything I have to the guy either. *LOL* But once I verified it from other websites, I felt better about it.

On the other hand, neither do I believe that it is 'false' until it appears on a secular website. The first webpage I got it from was from

http://news.crosswalk.com/partner/Article_Display_Page/0,,PTID74088|CHID194343|CIID1145740,00.html

Edit: You'll have to select the whole URL, from the http to the html at the end, and paste that; not just the highlighted part. The 'pipe' is keeping it from highlighting the whole thing, but if you only click on one part, you won't see it.

There are others, if you want to search. Just go to any search engine and do a search on Michael Newdow.

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by stringcheese
They're Christian? I saw that guy on the news a little while ago talking about how his daughter felt offended that she had to say under God.

I'm not saying for sure that they are or aren't. And I don't believe that this guy, atheist or not, is a liar.

But on the other hand, neither do I believe that the different sources I've heard this from are all lying either, being as they've provided email addresses to the church, and names and places, and the like. I'm going by what I've read, and it's news to me too (or was this morning). For me, this isn't even just about religion. If what I've read is true, the guy doesn't really seem to be too upset or concerned about how his wife/daughter feel on the issue. Granted, a child is a child, and her say may not carry a HUGE amount of weight; but the wife's say should. I'll have to do more research on this one.

 

[ohio]

This shouldn't be a question of whether or not he's christian. One doesn't HAVE to be non-christian to believe in the seperation of church and state, and at the same time, it's NOT non-christian to believe that God shouldn't be mentioned in the pledge.

We've established that "God" in the pledge could just as easily be the Jewish or Muslim (or any other monotheistic religion's) God, but you won't find Jews or Muslim's protesting the removeal of the phrase from the pledge. This is because the large majority of them recognize that the government is not there to honor their God, and it is THEIR OWN duty to do so. But it's not just that they're indifferent about the phrase there, the religious Jews and Muslims (I'm Jewsish but not religious, so I don't count my own opinion here) I've spoken to are fully in favor of changing the pledge of allegiance... why do you think that is?

 

[fourgivn1]

Originally posted by ohio
This shouldn't be a question of whether or not he's christian. One doesn't HAVE to be non-christian to believe in the seperation of church and state, and at the same time, it's NOT non-christian to believe that God shouldn't be mentioned in the pledge.

We've established that "God" in the pledge could just as easily be the Jewish or Muslim (or any other monotheistic religion's) God, but you won't find Jews or Muslim's protesting the removeal of the phrase from the pledge. This is because the large majority of them recognize that the government is not there to honor their God, and it is THEIR OWN duty to do so. But it's not just that they're indifferent about the phrase there, the religious Jews and Muslims (I'm Jewsish but not religious, so I don't count my own opinion here) I've spoken to are fully in favor of changing the pledge of allegiance... why do you think that is?

You're right, it should NOT be a question of specific religious affiliation. If you want my honest opinion (and I may get flamed for this), I believe it is because quite a lot of the founders of this nation WERE in fact Christian. I've heard a lot of arguments about how they were at best Deists, or Theists, and so on and so forth, yet if you go look at the founding charters of the first 13 colonies, all of them mention at least a 'Creator' and a 'Savior', and almost all of them actually require one to profess faith in Jesus Christ in order to hold a position in the government. It's one thing to have a pledge that has an 'ambiguous' God listed that would sort of 'cover' all denominations. (I'm not even sure how that would be said But it's not. It says 'under God' and we have to be honest....by far, Christians are the ones who have no problem with it staying the way it is (obviously) and who are sticking up for it.

As far as the government not being there to honor their God, and it being their duty to do so, yes, you're right...but most Christians (let me clarify that...any Christian who is actually living the Christian life, studying the Bible, etc.) want the pledge to remain there because we (they) believe that God is Lord of ALL, including government, and that things occur, even in politics, because it is part of His plan. (Which is another controversial topic that already got started elsewhere.)

Personally, I don't have a problem if they do remove the words from the pledge. I'll manage to get along. But by the same token, I have nothing wrong with it STAYING there, considering most of the founders of this country WERE Christian, and I don't mind sticking up for it.