[no skid marks]

Pros dont mean that much for the XC crowd, almost none to the AM and Enduro guys.Sorry, didn't know or care,point taken.

As for weight - its still heavier so heavier on the uphills. Why do you go around that argument for non dh use?I really doubt a final product of 100mm width with 5-9 gears made for inboard(unloaded)use would be much heavier than an XT drivetrain, if at all. Being able to smash through gears under load etc will save energy, having the weight centralized will save a lot of energy, and make the bike easier to manouver, that is the arguments for weight being a curse isn't it? Reliability is a huge selling point.


btw. Ive been in that situation - superior product, even if you can explain doesnt mean you will convince buyers and sure as hell doesnt mean regular shop guys will. The answer would be a bit like -- ...bbut it it llooks heavy and seems complicated. What happens if I break it?You won't break it, look at the sh!t you have hanging off your bike now. If you do break it, it'll be covered by warranty, and can be swapped out within halfhour. The service life is over three times greater than that of your current drivetrain, and it should last ten time longer. Oh and it's not as suseptable to water and dirt, ETC.

One simple rule I found - When people dont understand something they will run away from it. (or in America call it the Antichrist and claim it wasnt born there)

So you think the majority of punters understand how to tune a deraileur?
G-BOX 1 2 etc were a farce, the companies all were scared and introduced a fake bike to look hi tech at the shows.
GTs good attempt with the IT was lazy and they bought a 10 year old design to market, if they'd just tarted it up a bit with better geo it would have easily been a good bike. Home builders and small companies are held back mainly by the dang width of a 135mm rear internal geared hub. If Shimano, Sram or whoever produced a 100mm hub with no standard or anything, just 100mm wide, or with standard, whatever, the companies would be all over it or miss the the wave sales.
Nobody can deny all the benefits, once a few black sheep make the move, the herd would follow in droves, because once it's proven it's easy for the sheep to believe they pionered the logic and went with it. Most people want to pretend they're cool and different, getting at the front of safe logic or fashion is how people show they're "cool", or intelligent, or whatever.
Sorry for anyone having to endure my ramblihngs to get this very logical and amazingly beneficial advancement to our sport to happen. We will all save cash in the long run and have better performing, longer lasting bikes, with NO drawbacks, unless the weak let the big markateers rip us off with bull**** tales of grandure.
I'm fed up with the companies we keep in business holding back our sport with bull**** marketing and flawed technology. Shimano for the cost of making one of your crap deraileurs(alivio, altus, whatever), you could give us a light 100mm 9 and 5 speed hub.

 

[Tomasis]

i dont think gearbox will work.. because it overcomplicates designing a frame.. I rather have a special rear hub or derailleur.. electric motor is even more fun

there are much better alternatives than gearbox.. Im not surprised that Honda bike was not so popular anyway

 

[fluider]

From my work experience in IT and watching company stories in other industries I can say that serving to customer and doing only things customer wants now is a road to nowhere. No progress, no future. If you are in the market because you love the thing you do and you want to do it as many years as possible, then you MUST NOT serve customer. You should be his partner (businees is a partnership, not service to customer) and educate him if needed.
Where would the sport be if companies 20 years ago had been making bikes only for rich people?
I'm for electronic shifting in gearbox. But I'm not just for another iteration of derailuer.

 

[eatmyshorts]

The unicorn that some so desperately crave is probably sitting in a box at big s's (both) r and dept waiting for the right timing to bring to market.. along with a heap of things we we dont know we even need yet..

Conceptualize away all you like...

 

[no skid marks]

IS for servo mounts and leverage ratios, so shock, seat post companies etc can all have their stuff adjusted at the tap of a button on the bars. Brake sensors controlling squat/anti squat, crank sensors controlling the same. Electronicly controlled anti dive in forks(brake activated, or rider COG activated by sensor worn on riders belt, or plugged into belly button. Electric shock if pedals or brakes are idle for too long. The future is endless. Subconsious remapping's where it's gonna be at though, or cat gene implants.

 

[epic]

About cost. There is no way I'd pay what they charge for Dura Ace Di2 for my DH bike, but Ultegra is already here and it's cost is comparable to XTR or Saint, so why couldn't I expect that if this made it to DH it could be at that price point? My first electro-pneumatic paintball gun (Angel LED) cost over a grand. Now you can buy electros for $100 and they don't even make high-end mechanical guns anymore.

 

[SuspectDevice]

About cost. There is no way I'd pay what they charge for Dura Ace Di2 for my DH bike, but Ultegra is already here and it's cost is comparable to XTR or Saint, so why couldn't I expect that if this made it to DH it could be at that price point? My first electro-pneumatic paintball gun (Angel LED) cost over a grand. Now you can buy electros for $100 and they don't even make high-end mechanical guns anymore.

This.

 

[dump]

Let me know when I can get it for $100... and my current shifter wears out

Yeah, it might be $100 then.

 

[DCRAC3R]

Ill just keep my cable shifters and save my money for a roholf.

...or just deal with my dh bike only ever being ridden at shuttled mtns and not worry to much about actual pedaling.

 

[Thrillkil]

Campagnolo just needs to buy Formula and release a MTB group already

 

[SuspectDevice]

All you haters suck my balls.

 

[CBJ]

Amazing bike.

 

[yuroshek]

All you haters suck my balls.

Bahahaha too funny! I saw this the other day and thought of you.

From what I hear shimano is looking to make some lower end model mech's to work with DI2. If they do you will see my bikes with DI2 for sure.

 

[mattmatt86]

Campagnolo just needs to buy Formula and release a MTB group already

I'm pretty sure The Hive owns Formula, at least Formula USA. When I EP'd my e.13 stuff and formula brakes I got them all through the guys at The Hive.

 

[SkullCrack]

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/interbike-2010-fairwheel-bikes-di2-mountain-bike-27855

 

[mattmatt86]

It's a bargain

 

[baca262]

whatever man, dh bikes need gearboxes and shaft drives. if i had teh moniez and access to cnc & welding machinery, i'd give it a shot to build a steel shaft-driven gearbox (rohloff or some shimano gear hub) bike. no maintenance, no care.

 

[norbar]

Unfortunately I am not a serious.

 

[sethimus]

so with the alfine di2 news out, anyone know of any plans for an electronic shifting zerode?

 

[baca262]

that actually sounds plausible, provided you have money to burn.

 

[Udi]

so with the alfine di2 news out, anyone know of any plans for an electronic shifting zerode?

One thing I've disliked about all the gearbox bikes I've ridden (including the Zerode) is the actual shifter itself, never really liked the feel of the shift either.

Not sure if di2 would create more problems than it'd solve, but if it meant a better shifter / shift, it'd be a cool application for it!

 

[ianjenn]

I have sprinted some Road bikes around the parking lot using Di2 equipped systems. They shift smoother and faster for sure. I think Shimano claims about 5K shifts per charge right? The new Ultegra Electric kits are actually less expensive than cable set-ups. So if the Di2 Alfine costs are in line it would for sure be worth looking at.

"Alfine Di2. Alfine Di2 will be available in 8- and 11-speed hub options. A handlebar-mounted display will show gear selection and battery level. The Alfine group includes Shimano's first drop-bar shifter for internal gear hubs. The system offers several battery options, including a seatpost-mounted battery. It will be available this fall."

 

[offtheedge]

so with the alfine di2 news out, anyone know of any plans for an electronic shifting zerode?

Now this would make sense. A solenoid actuated GB would be something I'm sure the box manufacturers would be happy to design around.

 

[no skid marks]

One thing I've disliked about all the gearbox bikes I've ridden (including the Zerode) is the actual shifter itself, never really liked the feel of the shift.

Ha ha, Udi is there any bike or part you prefer to what you actually run?
Alfine shifter takes more than a few runs to get used to as its different lever positioning takes a bit to get used to and you need to find out what shifter position suits you(I use thumb nail to shift down), but once dialed the bennefits far outweigh any initial allienation felt adjusting to it, or it's slightly less ergonomic buttons. Mech shifting feels terrible, cumbersome and primitive to me now. Without even considering the fact your so limited to where you can shift with a mech compared to a gearbox's much wider range of shifting oprtunities. Even if the electric alfine shifter felt better not sure I'd bother rocking it with any weight or reliability taxs you might have to trade.

 

[norbar]

Ha ha, Udi is there any bike or part you prefer to what you actually run?
Alfine shifter takes more than a few runs to get used to as its different lever positioning takes a bit to get used to and you need to find out what shifter position suits you(I use thumb nail to shift down), but once dialed the bennefits far outweigh any initial allienation felt adjusting to it, or it's slightly less ergonomic buttons. Mech shifting feels terrible, cumbersome and primitive to me now. Without even considering the fact your so limited to where you can shift with a mech compared to a gearbox's much wider range of shifting oprtunities. Even if the electric alfine shifter felt better not sure I'd bother rocking it with any weight or reliability taxs you might have to trade.

Well I'm on the same boat as Udi. I do some gear testing for a friendly company and a local mag but if you have dialled your build everything else just feels wrong.

Though I really want to try a Zerode. I still use gripshift on my trailbike (it's old) so it shouldn't be that hard to adjust.

 

[Udi]

Plenty, but most things I've preferred I've managed to get my hands on.
The bike seemed great otherwise, I just don't like those shifters. I feel it's a step backwards from dual-thumb shifting, and a return to low-normal / rapidrise which to me is an awkward reversal of what I like / am used to. But that's just me!

I've also never had a problem with a derailleur and have been running the same dura-ace mech with rollamajig since the '06 race season. Not sure if I'm some sort of exception to the rule there.

BTW - I did notice the '11 Alfine switches to high-normal... might enjoy that more.

 

[no skid marks]

Plenty, but most things I've preferred I've managed to get my hands on.
The bike seemed great otherwise, I just don't like those shifters. I feel it's a step backwards from dual-thumb shifting, and a return to low-normal / rapidrise which to me is an awkward reversal of what I like / am used to. But that's just me!

I've also never had a problem with a derailleur and have been running the same dura-ace mech with rollamajig since the '06 race season. Not sure if I'm some sort of exception to the rule there.

BTW - I did notice the '11 Alfine switches to high-normal... might enjoy that more.

Like I said, I use the back of my thumb to downshift, so it's different to either style of shifter like this.Once you're used to a gearbox and being able to shift at over 50% more opportunities you'll notice how bad a mech is for not being able to shift(mid corner, in rocks, down shoots wherever). You are lucky with your rear mech longevity, as I'm sure you'll agree, but that's a benefit of a gearbox I was not even addressing. Riding Thredbo heaps because I work there, I really notice the lack of shifting opportunities when I'm on a bike with a deraileur.
Alfine 11 has the silent clutch, not as reliable I don't think. I'd take the 8 by choice, I like it's gear spacing, and reverse shifting is the same as the shifter as in it's a minor detail IMO, once it's second nature it's fine. Yes a better shifter would be nice, but it's a non issue as is.

 

[no skid marks]

Well I'm on the same boat as Udi. I do some gear testing for a friendly company and a local mag but if you have dialled your build everything else just feels wrong.

Though I really want to try a Zerode. I still use gripshift on my trailbike (it's old) so it shouldn't be that hard to adjust.

Yeah me too, but I'd not go as far as to say something is wrong because I'm not used to it.
Zerode has trigger shifters(not sure if you're aware), just reverse shifting, and they're slightly goofy older style buttons(thumb and nose picking finger(although I use thumb on both).
I didn't mind the twit shifter on my Lahar, has some benefits, but the Rohloff one does have nice clunky crisp shifts, as opposed to say a Shimanno or sram derailer twist shifter(not tried a Alfine twist shifter).

 

[Udi]

In fairness I didn't say it was wrong at all, I just said it wasn't to my personal taste.

The issue with rapidrise / low-normal on an index and thumb shifter is that usually when you want to change to an easier gear it's very close to when you're braking (if not at the same time) - this means you're trying to brake and downshift with the same finger. Obviously you're working around it by using your thumbnail, which to me seems less than ideal/perfect (something I did too before Shimano jumped on the dual-thumb bandwagon, so glad they did!) - I think the best designs feel intuitive straight away or quite quickly.

It really stems from the fact that these products weren't originally designed for a DH audience, I reckon it'd be really cool if you could get an XTR/X0 style shifting system for them. Maybe even an aftermarket solution.

 

[p-spec]

wait til you rip the housing and you guys realise the price of simply the electrical wire.Needless to say the der.

 

[MrPlow]

One of the benifits I have always thought with an electronic shift system, combined with a system (gearbox or otherwise) that allowed gearshifting without pedalling would semi auto shifting. I would like something that triggered a down/upshift only when the RPM was too low / high. I have been caught out more than once coming into some tight switchbacks after a fast flowing section. If the bike could shift down then I think it would be cool.
I also reckon the alfine 11 Di2 may have a trail bike application. But 11 speeds of heavy hub for a DH bike doesn't make sense to me.

 

[norbar]

Anything automatic will end up working 90% of the time but the 10% will annoy the crap out of you. Have tried the new passat? Auto lock, start/stop and auto a/c make you want to kill that car.

 

[Banshee Rider]

wait til you rip the housing and you guys realise the price of simply the electrical wire.Needless to say the der.

Ultegra Di2 rear derailleurs can be had for $50 more than SRAM X0. And a Di2 wire is $30, won't crack and explode like derailleur housing, comes in sections that connect to the junction box, and is waterproof (like the rest of the system). The stuff is only going to come down in price.

Any mechanic and rider who has actually worked with the stuff is probably equally stoked as I am at the idea of a mountain bike line up.

 

[baca262]

30$ a wire?! there are probably some proprietary connectors but nothing you couldn't patch up yourself.

 

[norbar]

30$ a wire?! there are probably some proprietary connectors but nothing you couldn't patch up yourself.

Just wait for monkeys claiming some wires give better shifting stage and a small % of them cable gives it more warmth

 

[p-spec]

Ultegra Di2 rear derailleurs can be had for $50 more than SRAM X0. And a Di2 wire is $30, won't crack and explode like derailleur housing, comes in sections that connect to the junction box, and is waterproof (like the rest of the system). The stuff is only going to come down in price.

Any mechanic and rider who has actually worked with the stuff is probably equally stoked as I am at the idea of a mountain bike line up.

bro,I didn't even read all that,were do you get these amazing prices,so I can let me boss's know to go threw your suppliers.

30$ di2 wire,**** were gona buy the hole inventory at that price.

 

[p-spec]

considering I just checked with 1 of the plural di2 cable sets we have,they are 285$ a kit.

checking if you can simply get the rear der
"housing" cable/wire

edit p.s.s.s

di2 ultegra der,is more then just 40 dollars over a x0 shifter.

 

[sethimus]

30$ di2 wire,**** were gona buy the hole inventory at that price.

there you go, 22,90 eur incl. 19% VAT

x0 der 189,90 eur
ultegra di2 der 219,90 eur

 

[baca262]

Just wait for monkeys claiming some wires give better shifting stage and a small % of them cable gives it more warmth

oh **** son - i'm gonna be selling those! oxygen free cooper, no, wait, SILVER wires!!! less resistance, moar crisper shifts!

electric shifters business is going to become the new audiophile business!

 

[Banshee Rider]

bro,I didn't even read all that,were do you get these amazing prices,so I can let me boss's know to go threw your suppliers.

30$ di2 wire,**** were gona buy the hole inventory at that price.

www.google.com

You dont need a complete wiring kit to replace a wire. It's sold in sections, and connects to the junction box.

Given the overall depth of your posts, I'm not surprised that this may come to a shock to you.

Please let the mechanics at your shop do the Di2 work.