(stolen from Toshi via Facebook)
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_14303473
Be careful what you wish for...
How Small Gov't Can Go Horribly Wrong
- Thread starter jonKranked
- Start date
But all that freedom will make the grass green.
People bleed red... not green.
Just borrow you some Chinese money, you betcha!
you forgot to wink.
Lord Humongous does not wink. He obliterates.
"Just borrow you some Chinese money, you betcha!"
<Two vehicles hit head on at 100 mph>
oh, i thought that was a Sarah Palin reference. Carry on.
They should invite the people that run Colorado Springs to the CA budget deficit meetings.
Sarah Palin as done by the ruler of the wastelands.
That grass isn't dead. It's just "dormant"... 
Doesn't work that way. A ton of spending in California is locked in by referendum votes, so you get a state where they have 3 strikes laws, tough on crime BS, and all sorts of schooling mandates where they also have a law that says that you can't raise property tax to pay for it.
Basically, you couldn't write a better formula for a fiscally ungovernernable state if you tried...
WA is similar....ballot initiatives are the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. I will never forget I-695 by Tim Eyman....the king of stupid initiatives in WA state.
Car tabs were expensive. Eyman got I-695 on the ballot. "Car tabs will now be $30. flat fee". Previously they had been several hundred dollars....and based on the value of your car.
So all the slack-jawed morons voted yes and it passed.
But wait! Now there is a huge shortfall in cash to fund the ferries and buses?? How could this be???
This is why I (by and large) likely our parlimentary system. It ain't perfect by any means. But we elect people who are presumably up to speed on the issues....all facets of them. This way...again...presumably, they can make informed decisions on spending tax money. The people get their say by voting in someone to make the informed decisions for them. That's not a bad thing.
Car tabs were expensive. Eyman got I-695 on the ballot. "Car tabs will now be $30. flat fee". Previously they had been several hundred dollars....and based on the value of your car.
So all the slack-jawed morons voted yes and it passed.
But wait! Now there is a huge shortfall in cash to fund the ferries and buses?? How could this be???
This is why I (by and large) likely our parlimentary system. It ain't perfect by any means. But we elect people who are presumably up to speed on the issues....all facets of them. This way...again...presumably, they can make informed decisions on spending tax money. The people get their say by voting in someone to make the informed decisions for them. That's not a bad thing.
You know what they should do?? CUT TAXES!! Yes, solve their budget problems by cutting taxes. That will magically bring in more money, and then they can use that to give out MORE tax cuts instead of spending it on stupid "social programs" like parks, streetlights, police/firefighters, etc. Basically, if they cut their taxes to zero, their revenue stream will be infinite. Then their biggest problem will be figuring out how to cut their taxes below zero, without it becoming welfare...
I should run for political office somewhere as a Republican, I'm AWESOME at it.
I should run for political office somewhere as a Republican, I'm AWESOME at it.
that gospel light isn't all that bright.
I'm not sure who said it, but I recall a quote about "people deserve the government they get" and I can't think of where that might be more true that this **** hole town. In November there were two initiatives on the ballot for slight tax increases that would have prevented the fire fighter/police cuts, the other that would have saved the cities already woefully inadequate bus system and the city parks. Both were defeated soundly by the fvcking jebus loving morons that make up the vast majority of the population here. Most of whom still think that the city government is too big. The City is spending 31 million dollars to keep the United States Olympic Committee based here in town. The parks aren't gonna get mowed, the street light are being shut off, and all the buses are gone, but hey, we've got the mother fvcking USOC! America FVCK YEA! Robberies and violent crime are already on their way up. The mayor,Lionel Rivera is as crooked as a dogs hind leg, and the city council isn't much better. Especially this douche bag ex-council member. On my ride this morning I rode through two green ways on my way to the largest city park, Palmer Park, and the trash cans are already gone, there are no signs as of this morning. The city hasn't plowed all winter, and the roads are already a massive collection of potholes.
I love a train wreck as much as any guy and I love the fact that the Republitards of this town are getting their comeuppance. I just wish I wasn't living on the tracks.
I love a train wreck as much as any guy and I love the fact that the Republitards of this town are getting their comeuppance. I just wish I wasn't living on the tracks.
Oh damn, people will have to take on some responsibility. Or is responsibility the debt that me, my children, and quite possibly their children will be paying off for the rest of their lives?
edit: stirring the pot
edit: stirring the pot
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That's really clever.
Not stirring the pot so much as offering up a thought that really has no logical connection to the thread at all. If you want to stir the pot, you should try saying something relevant.
it will be like detroit on a smaller scale...enjoy.I'm not sure who said it, but I recall a quote about "people deserve the government they get" and I can't think of where that might be more true that this **** hole town. In November there were two initiatives on the ballot for slight tax increases that would have prevented the fire fighter/police cuts, the other that would have saved the cities already woefully inadequate bus system and the city parks. Both were defeated soundly by the fvcking jebus loving morons that make up the vast majority of the population here. Most of whom still think that the city government is too big. The City is spending 31 million dollars to keep the United States Olympic Committee based here in town. The parks aren't gonna get mowed, the street light are being shut off, and all the buses are gone, but hey, we've got the mother fvcking USOC! America FVCK YEA! Robberies and violent crime are already on their way up. The mayor,Lionel Rivera is as crooked as a dogs hind leg, and the city council isn't much better. Especially this douche bag ex-council member. On my ride this morning I rode through two green ways on my way to the largest city park, Palmer Park, and the trash cans are already gone, there are no signs as of this morning. The city hasn't plowed all winter, and the roads are already a massive collection of potholes.
I love a train wreck as much as any guy and I love the fact that the Republitards of this town are getting their comeuppance. I just wish I wasn't living on the tracks.
lower property taxes = fewer local government services = sh!ttier place to live = declining tax revenue = fewer local government services = ........
but hey, they'll have low taxes, woohoo!!
they are gonna start building their own Thunderdome soonlower property taxes = fewer local government services = sh!ttier place to live = declining tax revenue = fewer local government services = ........
but hey, they'll have low taxes, woohoo!!
Already got it covered. Death Matches/liberal executions will take place at the Pro Rodeo Hall of Fame. Exit 148 Right off the Ronald Regan Highway!
I only made up part of that.
How is it that less governmental responsibility which equates to more individual responsibility, and big government spending which in turn leaves us with more foreign debt not relevant to this thread at all? Is it because I didn't use the specific location of Colorado?
Oh and I want to add that it sucks they are cutting many of those programs, when in turn there is plenty of more underlying "fat" that needs trimming long before the things they are cutting funding to.
Greener,
Big Govt spending on the federal level fighting wars are what you should be complaining about. Not taxes on a local level, that are held at the local level to keep a minimum standard of living (via parks, sanitation, etc).
I lived in a city with some the highest taxes in the US, and the standard was not there, so I left. It's happening a lot and due to which, SF is becoming a city of extremem wealth and extreme poor, not middle class.
You need to find a balance between the extremes.
And the Fed needs to stop spending.
Big Govt spending on the federal level fighting wars are what you should be complaining about. Not taxes on a local level, that are held at the local level to keep a minimum standard of living (via parks, sanitation, etc).
I lived in a city with some the highest taxes in the US, and the standard was not there, so I left. It's happening a lot and due to which, SF is becoming a city of extremem wealth and extreme poor, not middle class.
You need to find a balance between the extremes.
And the Fed needs to stop spending.
Ugh. So despite what you may have heard, occasionally communal (government) activities are more efficient than singular acts. Just take the "cutting the grass activity" as noted above. Individual property owners can show up with their 20" walk-behind lawn mower and spend all day Saturday mowing a park. *Or* the citizens can agree that they can raise $10,000 (through taxes) to fund a big, efficient lawn mower, and pay someone minimum wage to use it. Now your parks are mowed, you have your Saturday's free to spend with your family (or work harder and make more $$$$), and quality of life improves.
What's going on here is that the people are so anti-tax that they're basically ruining their city...
Sounds like a Tea Party to me.
Sacrificing their own time for the good of many? That sounds like SOCIALISM!
A few years ago, we had a republitard governor, and he actually imposed day fees for the use of state parks. So if you went to ride a trail, you had to pay $3 I think and leave a little permit on your dashboard. The rationale had something to do with "the people who use the parks should be paying for them" or some such nonsense, that totally disregarded the value of protected lands to society as a whole. Anyway, this quickly became unpopular across the board, and was repealed. I imagine Pesqueeb's hood will learn its lesson before too long.
We have to pay for using our State Parks out here.
It is impossible to argue, or even discuss anything with these Republitards.
"Our debt is too high. We're going to have to raise taxes somewhere down the line in order to pay for our massive deficit. Therefore, we should cut taxes now so we bring in more revenue. We should also cut social programs, but leave our 700+ billion dollar DoD as it is. Or possibly grow it. That's *good* spending. QED."
edit: I swear, I'll vote, donate money, and give 100% of my time to get someone elected if they just came out and said:
1) Cut the DoD down to $325b, which is equal to the next 5 countries military spending, combined.
2) Individualize SS. Basically remove the income limit on it, and use the increase to fund everyone under 50 to put 3% of their income (out of the total 12% for SS taxes) into some form of Gov't TIPS. Not in the market, it's a savings, not a lottery.
3) Strip discretionary spending of that which isn't going to provide a financial benefit. Yes, I like the bike path and the pretty bridge over the highway. I don't *need* it right now.
4) Raise taxes. Yup, raise taxes until we pay off our debt, and then put in a balanced budget amendment.
Basically it's the most unpopular ideas from each side........
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It is impossible to argue, or even discuss anything with these Republitards.
"Our debt is too high. We're going to have to raise taxes somewhere down the line in order to pay for our massive deficit. Therefore, we should cut taxes now so we bring in more revenue. We should also cut social programs, but leave our 700+ billion dollar DoD as it is. Or possibly grow it. That's *good* spending. QED."
edit: I swear, I'll vote, donate money, and give 100% of my time to get someone elected if they just came out and said:
1) Cut the DoD down to $325b, which is equal to the next 5 countries military spending, combined.
2) Individualize SS. Basically remove the income limit on it, and use the increase to fund everyone under 50 to put 3% of their income (out of the total 12% for SS taxes) into some form of Gov't TIPS. Not in the market, it's a savings, not a lottery.
3) Strip discretionary spending of that which isn't going to provide a financial benefit. Yes, I like the bike path and the pretty bridge over the highway. I don't *need* it right now.
4) Raise taxes. Yup, raise taxes until we pay off our debt, and then put in a balanced budget amendment.
Basically it's the most unpopular ideas from each side........
Hell yes.
I will pay more in taxes as long as the faucet is turned off, and the limits are essentially permanent.
*must spread rep...
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Oh believe me, I think federal government is a huge majority of the problem, and I would much rather pay taxes for things like parks, police, and sanitation. There is still alot of local money in most places being spent on excesses(ie padding the pockets of certain interests). I don't think the current situation in Colorado Springs will become a trend or last very long, But I am a firm believer in small government, especially at the federal level.
The problem isn't that there's too much federal government, the problem is that too much of the federal government is inefficient and/or ineffective.
Ok as a non American can someone explain WTF this actually means? I see some of you guys bandy this phrase around so much.
And since I'm a touch cynical would you like to comment on my suspicion that its like communism i.e. sounds fantastic in theory but doesn't work in practice?
It means that all spending is bad, especially spending on poor/brown people.
Spending used to kill brown people is not really spending, so military spending is paid for with Jesus tokens and doesn't count.
Yes, it's really that easy.
I dunno. The "I'm angry so I'll vote to shoot myself in the foot" crowd, tea baggers or whatever the latest know nothings call themselves, seems to be growing.
US has 3 tiers of gov't:
-municipal (town/city)
-state (sorta like a province)
-federal (whole country)
If you have some spare time for some light reading...
Federal government of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg" class="image"><img alt="Question book-new.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png
It's a debate that goes back to the original framing of the US constitution, and ultimately led to the civil war. Forgive me everyone if Im oversimplifying, but more or less you have people who believe they should be governed at the state level, and that the federal government should only be used to (1) control the military and (2) conduct foreign policy/trade etc. More or less they want the "United States" to be a somewhat loose assemblage if individual countries.... of course they'd never admit that, but that's what they actually mean. They want the individual states in control social matters and taxing because (and there is some validity to this) values are different on a state to state basis, and a one-size fits all approach almost never works. This of course came to a head with the slavery issue, some states tried to secede from the union, got their asses pounded and the federal government assumed much more control than it historically had.
So now you have all these traditionally conservative areas (the south for instance) paying taxes for things they don't support, so what's their answer? Hating the federal government, voting to make it smaller, etc. All this complaining about local taxes is just a byproduct of the "we hate being taxed" mantra, and is more or less carried out by idiots, because anyone with half a brain knows that investing in your own community can only improve everyone's quality of life.