[zdubyadubya]

Sounds to me like you have a chip on your shoulder that you spent all that time to get the Masters and were out of work for 8 months, despite your lofty credentials. .

not really a chip, more confusion. and the masters only took 1yr.

had nothing more than an AS in electronics from a prestigious university (ITT Tech). Nothing I learned was applicable to software development. But I knew enough that I learned on my own to get in the door at Intel and blew up from there.

learned how to work the system. It does not mean they will be a good engineer.

Many fields would rather you NOT go to school. My resume gets interviews, my interview skills get me the job.

agree with everything you said. know tons of people with fantastic jobs and nothing more than a high school diploma

The difference between those with just a BS and those with an MS/PhD is astonishingly apparent.

agree entirely... 99% of the people in my department are just as described by all you guys.

Now then. I have a rhetorical question for all of you.

I am 25 yrs old. I have a Phd in Material Engineering focus on mechanical behavior of titanium. I have a MS in Material Engineering focus on mechanical behavior of titanium with emphasis on FEA. I have a BS in Metallurgical Engineering with focus on ballistic performance of titanium/ceramic composites. I am NOT a typical PhD egghead. All my jobs have been decidedly blue collar/manual labor (ran a test cell at Caterpillar, stuff like that). And I have a real life outside of academia. example: I race Cat 2/1 DH and do all my own work on all my cars, stuff like that. I did the advanced degrees because schools offered to pay for them.

How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin without even looking at it?

 

[mklie]

If I may I feel you are missing an important item in the market. "Its not what you know (or how long you are doing it) but who you know." While interviews are the normal path hiring a known entity preferred. Take the time and start networking.

 

[KavuRider]

If I may I feel you are missing an important item in the market. "Its not what you know (or how long you are doing it) but who you know." While interviews are the normal path hiring a known entity preferred. Take the time and start networking.

Correct.
All of my jobs so far have been because of who I know first, what I know second. That first one gets you in the door.

 

[KavuRider]

How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin without even looking at it?

I know you said it was rhetorical, but I can't resist.

That is also what is getting your resume thrown in the trash. You cost too much for those kind of positions, they can easily hire someone cheaper.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

Now then. I have a rhetorical question for all of you.


How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin?

You said rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway:

You won't. If you want hands on, you'll always be underpayed for any given job you hold. I now realize that being a hands-on, mechanical designer/engineer will always keep me less paid than the PhD/management side of things, but it's not like the salaries I'm looking at will have me struggling to pay the bills. I'd rather get paid slightly less and have free reign to design stuff and get my hands dirty down on the manufacturing floor. That and I don't have to wear a tie.


Edit - damnit, sniped by Kavu.

 

[MMike]

I know you said it was rhetorical, but I can't resist.

That is also what is getting your resume thrown in the trash. You cost too much for those kind of positions, they can easily hire someone cheaper.

Exactly

 

[MMike]

You said rhetorical, but I'll answer anyway:That and I don't have to wear a tie.


Edit - damnit, sniped by Kavu.

I haven't shaved since last friday......

 

[MMike]

and yes....if you have a PhD...(or advertise that you have a PhD on your resume)

...you will either end up in a think tank........or start your own company doing what you like. If you have the intellectual wherewithal to get a PhD in engineering, you could likely stand a decent chance of running your own business.

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

I haven't shaved since last friday......

Shave?

 

[waterdogs]

It's also probably a function of where you live and the economy local to that area. I lived in Michigan for 10 years in the Auto Industry as an Engineer/Program Manager. I loved the work (did some great stuff), but as soon as I saw the signs I booked out of there. I do miss it. I still have things tying me to MI I wish I didn't, but not much I can do about it. Right now that area is in bad shape with no light at the end of the tunnel.

I went further south (halfway home) and the market here is for the most part uneffected when compared to the rest of the nation. Just this past month, even though I am at no risk with my current job, I received an offer from another company that I accepted. I had been trying, mainly just to change engineering fields and kept getting rejected. I guess it was just a little luck and a little persistance.

If you are grounded, then there might be not much you can do. If you can pack and move, that might be your answer.

 

[mattmatt86]

I know this is slightly off the OP's question but this stuck out to me:

Some workers agree that unemployment benefits make them less likely to take whatever job comes along, particularly when those jobs don't pay much. Michael Hatchell, a 52-year-old mechanic in Lumberton, N.C., says he turned down more than a dozen offers during the 59 weeks he was unemployed, because they didn't pay more than the $450 a week he was collecting in benefits. One auto-parts store, he says, offered him $7.75 an hour, which amounts to only $310 a week for 40 hours.

This reminds me of a girl I met last year at a mountain bike race. She said she was laid off as a teacher in Tenn. and was collecting unemployment. I asked her how much and she said about 400 a week. She told me she was in no hurry to find a job because the unemployment was enough to pay all her bills and she was spending the year traveling. She was leaving the next week to visit her BF (a professional whitewater Kayaker) in Chile. She spent 2 months there, then went out to Colorado for 2 months, now I think she is somewhere in the PNW. Must be nice to go kayaking and mountain biking for a whole year on Uncle Sam's tab.

 

[jimmydean]

I know this is slightly off the OP's question but this stuck out to me:



This reminds me of a girl I met last year at a mountain bike race. She said she was laid off as a teacher in Tenn. and was collecting unemployment. I asked her how much and she said about 400 a week. She told me she was in no hurry to find a job because the unemployment was enough to pay all her bills and she was spending the year traveling. She was leaving the next week to visit her BF (a professional whitewater Kayaker) in Chile. She spent 2 months there, then went out to Colorado for 2 months, now I think she is somewhere in the PNW. Must be nice to go kayaking and mountain biking for a whole year on Uncle Sam's tab.

Well, to be fair, she did work to earn the benefit.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin without even looking at it?

In my experience (as a Sr VP in a pretty large organization) you have a few tried and true ways of making big money. Its always all about leverage. I dont really care what YOU can do specifically. I want to know what you can do well and how you can manage x # of people and/or processes to do the same thing well.

Onto examples

1) Generate a LOT OF Revnue directly. (as in you are the rain maker. Your company sells widgets and you sell more than anyone else, ever).
2) Manage a number of people that generate revnue (IE you are the boss of the rainmaker's and other folks that do the same thing as the rainmaker, just not as well)
3) Manage a LARGE staff of laborers. (Being a CNC/plant assembler) is relatively easy. Managing 50 of them is hard.
4) Manage a LARGE staff of administrative personnel (Same premise as above. Being the phone operator is easy, managing 50 of them is hard)
5) Manage a staff of professionals, such as: (engineers, accountants, lawyers) Managing a few highly leverageable assets such as engineers, accountants, lawyers PhD's etc and being responsible for their output.


I would imagine in the uber technical fields you need to be able to show a track record of providing value to an organization in order to get that high level job.

 

[chicodude]

I hired everyone in the company and I've fired a few along the way

My thoughts.

If you are invited to a face to face interview I've already decided from your resume that you have the potential to do the job, now you need to sell yourself to me.

Show up early by at least 10 minutes. If I keep you waiting well thats ok, however if you make me waste my time waiting for you to show up, you will not get the job.

Dress well, when setting up the interview ask what the company dress code is. Never show up in less than Business Casual. You show up looking less than professional you don't get the job. On a side note don't come in smelling like cigarettes [breath or clothes], with bad breath [use a breath mint], or unshaven.

Look me in the eyes when talking to me, have a firm handshake, stay focused on telling me why you want the job. Be enthusiastic but not over the top.

Know your resume by heart, be able to tell me what you did and why you left. Do not bad mouth previous employers if you do I will not hire you. Convey to me that you will do what ever it takes to help my company be a success.

Finally , ASK FOR THE JOB. If you don't ask me for the position at the end of the interview chances are I will not hire you.

Being as I have been to a ****-ton of calfire interviews, how do I ask for the job


"I can has a jorb plz?'

 

[jimmydean]

Being as I have been to a ****-ton of calfire interviews, how do I ask for the job


"I can has a jorb plz?'

Try "So when do I start?" I usually close my interviews like that if the vibe is right.

 

[mattmatt86]

Try "So when do I start?" I usually close my interviews like that if the vibe is right.

Well said. If you have done everything right all the way up to the close of the interview asking for the job should be a natural part of the conversation. If you feel awkward asking for the job then that probably means you didn't do something right leading up to that.

 

[Vipon]

I work has a Plant Manager in a large manufacturing plant. The last 7 people I have hired have been recomended to me by current employees.
The economy sucks right now and I can afford to be picky when hiring. There are plenty of good people looking for a job.
I'm to the point where I dont even look at the resume beyond a quick glance,

My current employees are very good, they dont want to be embarassed by recomending a slug and having their name associated with the slug.

Your right,,,, in this economy it really boils down to who you know.

 

[Serial Midget]

I am 25 yrs old. I have a Phd in Material Engineering focus on mechanical behavior of titanium. I have a MS in Material Engineering focus on mechanical behavior of titanium with emphasis on FEA. I have a BS in Metallurgical Engineering with focus on ballistic performance of titanium/ceramic composites. them.

How much demand is there for something that specialized?

How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin without even looking at it?

Because you want a PhD salary for work that can easily be performed by someone who isn't a PHD. Your PhD doesn't earn the paycheck, your skill, proficiency and productivity do.

 

[kazlx]

How much demand is there for something that specialized?



Because you want a PhD salary for work that can easily be performed by someone who isn't a PHD. Your PhD doesn't earn the paycheck, your skill, proficiency and productivity do.

Agreed. I have a Chem degree. I stopped at my Bachelors because once you get to MA or PhD Chem degrees, you are basically pigeonholed into nerd status if you want the pay that goes with it. I could have easily gone for my Chem PhD, but would most likely ended up hanging myself in my office from boredom. I'm lucky that I got a job where I get to use my degree and be outside for a majority of the day.

 

[zdubyadubya]

thanks all. well said.

How much demand is there for something that specialized?

actually a fair amount. metallurgy is pretty universal and the old guard is retiring right now. problem is as mmike pointed out, as soon as he sees a degree on a resume, he throws it in the trash. how do i have the opportunity to display my proficiency, talent, motivation, and all that other stuff you mentioned, when I don't even get the courtesy of an interview. if i am applying for the job, its probably a guarantee that i have decided to work for what the job pays. higher salary isn't demanded just because i have a piece of paper that said i could bs my way through graduate school for three years. like i mentioned, grad school was just something to pay the bills while i decided what i wanted to do with my life.

should one in my position leave something like that off of a resume to get the interview and then mention it later when dealing with companies who share a similar habit? are there a lot of companies that do this? how do i tell whether the resume reader is like that? submit two resumes, one with and one without my higher education?

 

[Serial Midget]

how do i have the opportunity to display my proficiency, talent, motivation, and all that other stuff you mentioned, when I don't even get the courtesy of an interview.

That I do not know - what I do know is no one owes you an interview or an opportunity to prove your worth. On-boarding a new employee is not free or without risk.

It also sounds like what you are doing now isn't working so maybe you could mix it up a bit, compose a different resume from a different angle.

 

[zdubyadubya]

That I do not know - what I do know is no one owes you an interview or opportunity. It also sounds like what you are doing now isn't working for you so maybe you could mix it up a bit, compose a different resume from a different angle.

agree. nobody owes me anything. sorry if it came off that way.

actually, i haven't done any job hunting since I finished my undergrad until just recently. and looking back at some of the stuff i sent out, no wonder i didn't get any jobs as a 21 yr old i had some serious growing up to do... some of the stuff i sent out was pretty bad.

this time around its definitely going to be taken from a different approach, and i appreciate all the insight from the "been-there-done-thats".

 

[Ithnu]

Having a MS in engineering will never hurt your career, but a Phd can make you too expensive for small companies.

In aerospace a Phd usually helps. I've worked with good ones and bad ones. Some very practical people have Phds and some are so hyper focused they don't realize you can't machine a hollow box out of a piece of billet.

 

[rekoner]

I know this is slightly off the OP's question but this stuck out to me:



This reminds me of a girl I met last year at a mountain bike race. She said she was laid off as a teacher in Tenn. and was collecting unemployment. I asked her how much and she said about 400 a week. She told me she was in no hurry to find a job because the unemployment was enough to pay all her bills and she was spending the year traveling. She was leaving the next week to visit her BF (a professional whitewater Kayaker) in Chile. She spent 2 months there, then went out to Colorado for 2 months, now I think she is somewhere in the PNW. Must be nice to go kayaking and mountain biking for a whole year on Uncle Sam's tab.

I tell you that the girl you were speaking to was full of it, cause in Tenn. the max you can draw from unemployment is $300 a week and then there is the factor of looking for work for an average of 2 jobs per week and then reporting to unemployment once a month or they will cut your benefits, so I don"t know how she is traveling around for a year unless she has an identical twin and is pulling some sneaky moves to get over.

 

[jimmydean]

I tell you that the girl you were speaking to was full of it, cause in Tenn. the max you can draw from unemployment is $300 a week and then there is the factor of looking for work for an average of 2 jobs per week and then reporting to unemployment once a month or they will cut your benefits, so I don"t know how she is traveling around for a year unless she has an identical twin and is pulling some sneaky moves to get over.

In Oregon, the max is $430 last I heard and you report your job search online, so it could be done from anywhere. You could travel and report in, but the only thing that could hurt is if they match you to a job and you are a no show for the interview.

But that's how we roll out here.

 

[buildyourown]

I am 25 yrs old. I have a Phd in Material Engineering focus on mechanical behavior of titanium. I have a MS in Material Engineering focus on mechanical behavior of titanium with emphasis on FEA. I have a BS in Metallurgical Engineering with focus on ballistic performance of titanium/ceramic composites. I am NOT a typical PhD egghead. All my jobs have been decidedly blue collar/manual labor (ran a test cell at Caterpillar, stuff like that). And I have a real life outside of academia. example: I race Cat 2/1 DH and do all my own work on all my cars, stuff like that. I did the advanced degrees because schools offered to pay for them.

Edit, we're hiring for 2 engineer positions right now plus a machinist.

How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin without even looking at it?

I think any technical job where you get your hands dirty probably tops out at about $35/hr. For real, non-union jobs. Maybe a bit more if you have some management responsibilities. Now, this is with 10-25 yrs on the floor and some really strong skills. Welding (all types), machining, fab, computers, CNC, controls, hydraulics, PLCs, etc. Now, $70k isn't much for a guy with a phd. Funny thing is, you don't need a degree. You just need the skills.
If you are set on being in the shop, get the skills. Learn to weld. Learn all the software you can. Mastercam, solidworks, etc.
Go to community college and get some marketable skills. Buy a welder and build car parts. Hell, build a bike.
I got a job once doing nothing but design in Solidworks. The interview consisted of me bringing in a bike I drew in SW, on my own time. Interview over, your hired.

 

[ZoRo]

No, but it might mean that the applicant isn't ready for a career and would be better suited to a job. As I said, gaps in employment need to be researched and taken into consideration.

I am passionate about biking but its not how I make money, its how i spend it.

That's exactly how I go by! For all the love and countless dollars I've spent on the whole bike shebang, I have a job that is not related, or very loosely related to biking. Quite frankly, as much as I would like to spend my time full time in a bike shop, the money is not the same as *real* job with benefits, etc...

Sad but true.

BTW, I think networks, contacts, friends, etc... are by far the best way to get a job. Doing interviews is a good thing, but the chances of getting the said position are pretty slim compared to the other method! Good luck

 

[ZoRo]

and yes....if you have a PhD...(or advertise that you have a PhD on your resume)

...you will either end up in a think tank........or start your own company doing what you like. If you have the intellectual wherewithal to get a PhD in engineering, you could likely stand a decent chance of running your own business.

You could also be in academia. Teaching, doing research, working for a good research center, doing a Postdoc somewhere cool with a good payout. Tons of opportunities for PhDs, just have too look at the right places and be reasonable in what you want to have from the get go.

For example, being a university prof won't get you a *PhD* paycheck until much later in your career, although the job requires you to have a PhD. You will start around 55k a year and top out, depending on the universities (speaking of Canada here, don't know the market in the US) at about 120-140k a year. Most of the time, a PhD will be a good payout and a good investment, espacially if you got payed a decent amount of tax-free money to study.

 

[zdubyadubya]

1) Funny thing is, you don't need a degree. You just need the skills.

2) If you are set on being in the shop, get the skills. Learn to weld. Learn all the software you can. Mastercam, solidworks, etc.

3) Go to community college and get some marketable skills. Buy a welder and build car parts. Hell, build a bike.

1) true that

2) workin on it. i use ansys, solidworks, and ProE on a daily basis

3) funny thing is that is what i did instead of high-school. grew up in the boondocks in Idaho and needed the knowledge because services were >50 miles away


problem comes about when people assume that b/c you have an advanced degree you are an egghead/nerd/someone with no real-life skills. if you are seeking a job where the degree is not required, do you leave it off the resume to avoid getting typecast?

 

[zdubyadubya]

and sorry to dexterq20 for hijacking his thread.

 

[buildyourown]

problem comes about when people assume that b/c you have an advanced degree you are an egghead/nerd/someone with no real-life skills. if you are seeking a job where the degree is not required, do you leave it off the resume to avoid getting typecast?

You don't have to leave it off, but you could put it at the way bottom or on page 2 in smaller print. Employers will have a good opinion of you after reading the first 1/3 page of you resume.

 

[The Toninator]

you know anything about EDI? Yes or No you may have my job. You're Hired!

 

[eric strt6]

I just hired a guy that I knew from his posts on a message board related to EMS, plus he had a good one page resume that was to the point and his in person interview showed the personality type we were looking for.

I had another guy talk himself out of the job by telling us all his siblings run ins with the law and giving us way too detailed personal information; if its not job related please don't bring it up. This guy just got a bit too creepy.

 

[Austin Bike]

Try "So when do I start?" I usually close my interviews like that if the vibe is right.

That can be a bit pushy. Try something softer like "is there anything else that I can tell you about my skills and experience before you make your decision?"

Then, when they say no you can say, "well, I hope that everything you have heard has convinced you that I am the right person for the job."


In my world "when do I start" is usually followed by "after you get hired. Oh, and the door is over there."

 

[Austin Bike]

When it comes to advanced degrees, I've managed to bring myself to be director of product marketing for a large technology company with only a bachelors degree.

I'm sure that MBAs are valuable, just ask any of the MBAs that work for me.

Degrees are, but nothing trumps experience and the ability to deliver. Nothing.

 

[Straya]

How do I get a job doing what I like (practical hands-on type stuff) and make a PhD salary at the same time when mmike just threw my resume in the recycle bin without even looking at it?

Well I don't know what the industry culture in your field is like but from personal experience the best thing to do in this case is to show up and offer to do volunteer work for the organisation. They get to see what you can do, that you are as hands on as you say and all the rest. You get to prove your dedication to the job by doing if for nil pay and can even put it on your CV that you've done that kind of work in case you apply for another job.

Its tough, and you might only be able to do it one day a week or something but it worked for me several times. Hands on and PhD salary probably don't go hand in hand too often either although I'm hardly an expert on that.

 

[Ride5280]

I'm sure this has been said already, bu tI'm not going to read every response... Clearly the job market sucks-it does for everyone. You gotta know somebody somewhere, I really believe that's the one best way to get into a job. Have you looked into LinkedIn.com, it's kind of a professional version of FB. You'd be surprised when you really get searching how many people you may know at places that can help open some doors. Sorry if this was already said, but I didn't want to read 8 pages of threads...

 

[loco-gringo]

<snip> Sorry if this was already said, but I didn't want to read 8 pages of threads...

What if...say the OP died and didn't need a job??? It's good to read the thread before commenting on it. Just saying.

 

[eric strt6]

wonder if Dexter showed up for his interview dressed like this fool?
If someone showed up in a similarly tailored outfit an interview in my office it would be over in just a few minutes, don't call us we'll call you

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/08/13/LV9U1ERE7F.DTL&type=living

 

[blue]

Yo dq20, I may have just landed you ANOTHER job. Call me.