[MikeD]

I live in the bay aria wich is one of the most expencive arias in the country

Holy ****ing ****.

The bay aria. Well, there's an opera I never heard of.

Kid, you're sitting in a life of privilege that you were fortunate to be born into; you're among the world's most fortunate (as are most posters on Ridemonkey).

Yet, you've obviously squandered the benefits that have been handed to you on a silver platter. You can't spell at a 5th grade level, nor can you form a coherent thought or argument. Moreover, you like to pass judgement on a lot of other people, notably ones who've worked harder than you ever will or ever will have to, and many who are more literate in both their native language and English than you will ever be.

I honestly think this country will shrivel and die within 100 years. We're turning into the Roman Empire in its years of decline. I hope not, because I love the country and its ideals and its land, but we're soon going to be eclipsed by more industrious people [tie this back in to the thread's topic] who haven't yet been spoiled by their own success. Worse yet, the people who've been strap-hangers on our rise will watch and laugh as we fall.

MD

 

[punkassean]

preach it MD, WERD!

 

[Fonzie18]

Well...I'll be honest that I live in an area where we don't see as much of the illegal immigrants - on the east side of the state they do for picking season, but not so much over here, and I don't really question who's here why and how. Forgive me for being simply confused and somewhat defensive of the title american - it's one I assign to anyone, regardless of race or skin color, until you tell me different, if you're here and working then my first assumption is simply that.

Nor, as you say, have I ever been in a situation where I would be identified as something other than white...but I have attended high schools where "white" kids were a quarter of the student population, not the majority. And I did graduate high school in Japan, where I was labeled fat gaijin and was mostly amusement to the "Japanese". And what I found more interesting there, was how quickly one could be ostracized for having a slighlty differently shaped face marking you as not "full" Japanese - but maybe a mix between Korean...

However, in my life experiences, most folks seem to take their status as an American for granted and they tend to lower it on their self-identification chart. You still haven't clarified - are you actually Mexican? If so then great, or are you an American with a Mexican heritage? Why would you rather identify yourself as something other than American. I still don't get it, if that's what your citizenship is.

Back on the other topic - illegal immigration - I don't have an opinion one way or another about it. We need the workers, and they need a better life. So far it seems an okay fit.

Nice, you are the first person who actually listens to others in this forum. :heart:
Anyway about my citizenship, I was born here (My parents and grandparents the same) in the United States and have lived here all my 20 years. I do travel to Mexico to enjoy the fine competitions that take place down there. Off-road racing and of course Downhill racing. Hehe, the DH races pay more than a NORBA national. I made $200.00 for scoring a first place finish down there and the entry fee? $12. But I do plan on applyng for dual citizenship so that I can be involved in elections(voting) and other public affairs in Mexico. The dual citizenship will ease my travels down south as well.

MikeD: Thanks dude. I kinda got tired of responding to those "kids" that are my age .

 

[Silver]

I still think he's a N8 troll account.

If not...every teacher that passed him since preschool needs to be fired.

 

[MikeD]

I still think he's a N8 troll account.

If not...every teacher that passed him since preschool needs to be fired.

The thought did cross my mind.

 

[Toshi]

And I did graduate high school in Japan, where I was labeled fat gaijin and was mostly amusement to the "Japanese". And what I found more interesting there, was how quickly one could be ostracized for having a slighlty differently shaped face marking you as not "full" Japanese - but maybe a mix between Korean...

my story: i'm half japanese, and have spent many moons in japan. as part of this i used to go to summer camp, in japan, with japanese kids. japanese kids are vicious, and i was quickly labelled "gaijin" as well. they didn't bother to find out that i could understand them prattling on just fine. :mumble:

 

[El Jefe]

I don't care if there here I jest want them to do it leagaly.

You really are a f**cking moron.

 

[punkassean]

Alf,

Are you going to the Baja 250 in late Feb? I'll be in San Felipe for a few days enjoying myself...

 

[Fonzie18]

Alf,

Are you going to the Baja 250 in late Feb? I'll be in San Felipe for a few days enjoying myself...

Sick. We usually race, but I don't think we will be running that race this year. If I do go down, it will be to help some friends in their racing. You goin' to watch the race or PARTAY? or both? :evil:

 

[punkassean]

Well, I'm going for work & fun. I have gone before with Locos Mocos / Total Chaos to help pit and this year I'll probably be with them again. It's mostly for fun but I will be covering the event to most likely write an article for Off-Road mag. I think we'll be bringing a few of our trucks (LT Tacoma/LT 4Runner etc)

What class truck do you run? If you head down this year we should hook up and swill some Tecate's esé...

 

[Kornphlake]

Having lived in mexico for a couple of years, and not being mexican, perhaps I can add something to this conversation, although it's been so utterly disoriented I don't know who's post to reply to. First off, if you're white and legally or otherwise enter mexico's interior (I'm not talking about TJ here) you're going to find out what descrimination is. I got scammed on every business transaction for the first year or so I was there because I'm white and americans have hundred dollar bills in their pockets, it wasn't until I started getting a handle on the language that I could get the marked price and I never got bro deals. So what did that teach me and how does it relate to this thread... Montashu does have a point, there is a language barrier and it's a natural tendancy to discriminate against those who you can't understand, however that still doesn't make it right. You don't know by looking at a mexican if they have immigrated legally or illegally, many of them do have acceptable proof of identification and immigration. I was helping one woman who had worked in the United States for 11 months as a waitress in El Paso and paid taxes just the same as you or I, she had a family member help her file her taxes and expected to recieve a refund. Well the long story short is that because of a technicality in her immigration status she wasn't able to get her tax refund, a tax refund that you or I would have gotten no questions asked. Unfortunately in this case her overpaid taxes are going to pay for montashu's public education, pave his roads, preserve his forrests...

If you've ever shared a meal with a mexican family (in mexico) where the father has crossed the border to work and is sending 98% of his pay check back to his family in mexico you might have a differant perspective. There are hundreds of illegal immigrants that die each year in the sonoran desert, this leaves women and children without support, they in turn become a burden on the mexican government which can barely afford to support those who are gainfully employed. Give immigrants a break, once they "sneak" across the border things can't get any eaiser for these guys, now they don't have to worry about being picked up by "la migra" they have to worry about getting a job, about being able to afford housing, about food, and they do it on a shoestring budget meanwhile sending the majority of their earnings via western union to their family in mexico.

 

[MikeD]

Ah, you've revealed the true threat from the South...they might make inroads on the family values of this country...and good lord, what would happen to our society if people actually worked their butts off to support their entire extended family while they all lived together in a single dwelling? Chaos, I tell you. Luckily, Moral Values are what guide today's policymaking.

MD

 

[mack]

1. I dont think that montashu gets a education... or he just has fat fingers on a laptop computer and cant spell.

2. Did i mention it was illegal? How can you be a US citizen and think its ok to break laws that you dont agree with.

 

[MikeD]

1. I dont think that montashu gets a education... or he just has fat fingers on a laptop computer and cant spell.

2. Did i mention it was illegal? How can you be a US citizen and think its ok to break laws that you dont agree with.

"an" education.

Not that I've ever said I endorse illegal immigration, but, just to be the counterpoint here...have you ever sped while driving? Drank alcohol underage?
Ridden a closed trail? Oh, but those are just minor things...and to lots of people (and our economy), so is immigration. Just ask Bernie Kerik.

To stretch it a bit further, should civil rights activists not have broken status-quo laws which they saw as unjust? That's how change is effected in peaceful societies sometimes.

MD

 

[Kornphlake]

1. I dont think that montashu gets a education... or he just has fat fingers on a laptop computer and cant spell.

2. Did i mention it was illegal? How can you be a US citizen and think its ok to break laws that you dont agree with.

You're right it is illegal, but how many legal immigrants face the same discrimination that montashu and his disciples (or is it the other way around ) pass around.

 

[Silver]

But, immigration is SO easy, painless, and affordable. I can't see why poor Mexicans just don't do it legally!

 

[mack]

Im not blaming the mexicans, if i were one of them id try to get over here too, im not that blind. People will always try to get in.

Im blaming GW and stupid politicans who are afraid to loose the Hispanic vote if they crack down on this. Well, not GW, he already won the election, wich is why i cant understand why he isnt cracking down on boarder security, epsecially with all this anti terror $ were spending shouldnt you think we should close the gate?

Also i dont think that the presidant can stiffen the boarder w/o the boarder states permission? Am i right or wrong on this.

 

[Toshi]

public service announcement: boarder != border. bush is not alienating the hispanic vote because he doesn't want the republicans to lose horribly in the 2006 and 2008 elections in the house, senate, presidential, etc. races.

 

[Silver]

This has nothing to do with the Hispanic vote. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Polls show that quite a few Hispanics don't particularly like or support illegal immigration either.

It's all about cheap abusable labor. Or rather, it's all about corporations that ensure a supply of cheap abusable labor with campaign donations to both parties.

 

[sanjuro]

You are correct, of course, that it's an unfortunate part of our "american" culture to categorize individuals based on their appearance. However, are you saying that your first impression of someone with tanned skin, and almond shaped eyes is that they are not American? (not you specifically - hypothetical question)

Seriously, why not give everyone the benefit of the doubt that we're all here on equal footing - everyone has a different background, heritage, and life experiences - so in that we're all unique and that should be respected as part of your culture and world views...but that doesn't make a person less or more of an american. Annnd, at the same time, wouldn't it help the "prejudging" situation that seems to occur quite a bit, if everyone simply identified themselves as what they are - I'm an american...not chinese American, not African-American - unless of course you hold nationality in two individual nations...

1. My identity is much more based on my appearance than if I was from a European country. I am sure I would "blend" in, given my family's 2 generations of living in America. But I have been identified as Chinese early in my life, and I now accept and welcome that distinction. Even with other Americans, I deal with them differently than another nationalities might, and I celebrate the difference.

Conversely, if an European or a white American immigrated to an Asian country, I betcha he'd be identifying himself as English, French, Germany, etc. No Asian would make that assumption that this person was an ethnic insert country here.

2. I am a Chinese-American, acknowledging my family's country of origin and the place of my birth. It doesn't mean I speak Chinese, wear black slippers, own a laundry, or eat rice. I have my reasons for describing myself as such, and it really shouldn't be a big deal to anyone (except for that I use an username of a Japanese film - I just like Kurosawa and Mifune and I identify with them as an Asian-American).

3. Frankly, I think many whites are clueless about what Asian-Americans think about race in America. In my experience, I deal with whites as an individual Asian in a large group of white people. Until I moved to California, I rarely dealt with whites (and blacks for that matter) as a majority, but a very rare minority. Keep that in mind when offering any opinions about Asian-Americans.

 

[fluff]

Re: Quote:
Originally Posted by fluff
Surely you are not suggesting that anyone who is not American is less than equal to one who is?

Uhhm....no...where the hell did you read that? or are you simply skimming and pulling out fun sentences to pick at rather than taking the sentence in context with the whole conversation?

It came from this post:
_____________________________________________________________
Seriously, why not give everyone the benefit of the doubt that we're all here on equal footing - everyone has a different background, heritage, and life experiences - so in that we're all unique and that should be respected as part of your culture and world views...but that doesn't make a person less or more of an american. Annnd, at the same time, wouldn't it help the "prejudging" situation that seems to occur quite a bit, if everyone simply identified themselves as what they are - I'm an american...not chinese American, not African-American - unless of course you hold nationality in two individual nations...
______________________________________________________________

You mention equal footing in the same sentence as not making a person more or less American.

Now, it meay seem like I'm just being picky (and maybe I am) and I would say that you come across as pretty well balanced as a rule. What struck me was that there may have been an implicit thought that if something did make someone more or less American then the equal footing no longer applied. That you mentioned benefit of the doubt also leaned the same way, that there was some doubt in the first place undermines the equality.

Of course all this is being picky with language use, but then that is why I asked - to seek clarification. After all it is not uncommon for Western nations to appear to view their own compatriots as more important that other nations' peoples, there are plenty of examples each day in the press (eg. Tsunami in Asia 44 Britons feared dead - 100,000+ Asians also lost, etc).

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Re: Quote:
Originally Posted by fluff
Surely you are not suggesting that anyone who is not American is less than equal to one who is?



It came from this post:
_____________________________________________________________
Seriously, why not give everyone the benefit of the doubt that we're all here on equal footing - everyone has a different background, heritage, and life experiences - so in that we're all unique and that should be respected as part of your culture and world views...but that doesn't make a person less or more of an american. Annnd, at the same time, wouldn't it help the "prejudging" situation that seems to occur quite a bit, if everyone simply identified themselves as what they are - I'm an american...not chinese American, not African-American - unless of course you hold nationality in two individual nations...
______________________________________________________________

You mention equal footing in the same sentence as not making a person more or less American.

Now, it meay seem like I'm just being picky (and maybe I am) and I would say that you come across as pretty well balanced as a rule. What struck me was that there may have been an implicit thought that if something did make someone more or less American then the equal footing no longer applied. That you mentioned benefit of the doubt also leaned the same way, that there was some doubt in the first place undermines the equality.

Of course all this is being picky with language use, but then that is why I asked - to seek clarification. After all it is not uncommon for Western nations to appear to view their own compatriots as more important that other nations' peoples, there are plenty of examples each day in the press (eg. Tsunami in Asia 44 Britons feared dead - 100,000+ Asians also lost, etc).

lol...well..sorry if I raised your desire to be picky. I meant nothing of the sort. My conversation is directed to those who Are currently American citizens who seem to feel that they must be something more than that in order to defend their uniqueness. My question is: why is it so important to be something other than just American? As you yourself probably already know, most other nations, as Sanjuro mentioned previously, see you as only "American" not Chinese-American, not Polish-American, or just British, or just German, or just Japanese.

It's a personal confusion that started pretty young, when I attended a Jr. High, and High School where race and skin color seemed to be an issue everyone was threatened by (why, again?), where the "whiteys" in the school were the big bad guys, even though we were holding the same rough population count as anyone else in the school.

I know I started this thread off discussing illegal immigration, because I find it amusing that a comic book is being published by the Mexican Government to help educate the masses of the dangers in crossing illegally. The thread definitely bastardized into my own personal confusion regarding the issue of race in This country - because it such a big deal, and I don't under stand why. Seems to me that if we could get over the skin color of everyone around us, as a nation in general, we'd be a lot healthier.

Not denying everyone's life experiences, heritage, cultures, those are to be celebrated. But why deny publically the citizenship you hold? I'm sure that you, Fluff, would never deny your citizenship, but Americans sometimes seem confused on that point.

 

[laura]

Is it just the people who can't spell that don't like mexicans?

yes, yes it is.

 

[BurlyShirley]

If you live in a non-union state like TN, illegal immigration sucks on so many levels.

I know we like to make ourselves feel warm and fuzzy by saying things like "Mexicans only take crap jobs that Americans dont want to do" but for construction type jobs like masonry, framing..things like that, the market used to kind of balance itself out and workers could make a living off doing these types of low-skill jobs, but now mexicans do them all for nickels and everything is all ****ed up.
Maybe if they brought their mexican ladies with them, I wouldnt mind it, but its a sarchicha party so there's no tradeoff.

 

[mack]

I am more concerned about criminials entering the country. No good honest mexican ever stole a americans job, of course there are always exceptions to blanket statements but you get the main idea. But criminals and terrorists are a threat.

 

[Toshi]

I am more concerned about criminials entering the country. No good honest mexican ever stole a americans job, of course there are always exceptions to blanket statements but you get the main idea. But criminals and terrorists are a threat.

what are you talking about?

 

[.:Jeenyus:.]

what are you talking about?

You really think he knows?

 

[mack]

You really think he knows?

ha ha ha...


"I know that you know that i know that you know i know."

man that was a funny movie...

 

[chicodude]

For the love of god mack, SHUT UP!


I like talking over the internet because it improves my gramar skills immensely. I can't quite say why most of the kids my age (or close to it) talk like complete and utter retards.



I'm gonna go study for a final now.

 

[mack]

Ah, i love pissing you off so much. I hope you fail your final.

Havent you seen dodgeball? You should get out more, maybe relax?

 

[mack]

Eh, im just acting my age, wich is 15. What else would you expect.

EDIT: toshi deleted his post, wich was above this one. If i remember he was telling me that I wasnt funny, or somthing along those lines... :eviltongu

 

[springfield1911]

Ahem, as a newbie on this board, i would like to say that it is enlightening to see so many idealistic people.

However, while I respect the hard working immigrants, the Mexican American population has not only grown, but balloned in recent years in my beloved California. The result? There is a town on my travel route called Watsonville, california, where you don't need to speak English to live comfortably, where it does makes one outsider feel like living in Mexico. all is fine and dandy but my mother alsways warned me to go there when I was a kid, and I thought that wasa bigotted statement until the bloody war between the Mexican and Salvadorian gangs.

All previous immigrant groups, be it German, Chinese, Italian, Russian, or others, almost always leanr to speak English and identify themselves as Americans within a few generations. But in places like Watsonville, Mexican flags fly proudly on cars and homes, third, fourth generation Mexican Americans don't speak English.

I have no problem making friends with people of hispanic backgrounds because they speak English, and i look to them as equals. my friends of hispanic backgrounds are very capable of anything that I can do, if not better, and they have fathers who served our nation proudly as Americans, and I treat them as Americans.

But for those gang-banger wannabe kids who use their heritage to congregate and intimidate small town kids like me while I was growing up, a sense of resentment rises out of natural reaction. And let me tell you, there are lot of Mexican American kids like that. they happen to embrace being Mexican more than Being American, and I consider that to be a direct result of their family environment.

And I do wish people would stop using grammar as a mean of discreditting Montashu's right to his opinion. ANd no I am not affiliated with montashu and the so called "N8 troll" or whatever you guys call it. Seems like I am in danger of being labeled a biggot for saying what I said, but it's a view from someone who lived near Mexicans and Mexican Americans all his life.

Take care now.

Springfield1911

 

[punkassean]

I think the proximity to Mexico from CA is why many Mexican Americans stick more closely to their heritage than many European immigrants. Even a busted up Ford Pinto can get you to Mex for $100 in gas but a plane ticket to mother Russia now that's some real coin.

I hear you about the gang-bangers but if you really look at percentages the number of latinos involved in that kind of activity is probably not much more than confused white kids in the suburbs running around robbing their neighbors and raping their buddies little sisters.

I live near Watsonville and it's really not like you make it out to be, now Salinas on the other hand can be pretty harsh. I for one really like driving through the more ethnic cities here in CA because of that feeling of being in Mexico and boy do I love finding super tasty taquerias that none of your buddies know about yet!

Grammer is an indicator of a person's overall intelligence, it is not the end-all-be-all but in most cases it is a pretty good sign. Montashu might be a "good kid" so-to-speak but he really has no idea how the world works, nor should he with what little amount of "real-world" experiences he has been privy to.

I really think it is you who is being idealistic convincing yourself that teenagers of all races don't engage in gang-like activites and do harm to innocent people...

But hey at least you presented your opinion in a semi-adult fashion, that counts for something around here

 

[Btyler311]

I don't have a problem with immigration per say, I do think maybe the entry process needs to be fixed and THEN the crack down on unlawful residents cranked up a bit, only because the idea of their being off the record also means they tend to be using things like fake drivers licences and such and not insured etc. But I live in S. FL where it is a little different than CA.

Here we have boatloads of Haitians swarming ashore and Cubans who state right from the outset that they are Cuban NOT American, like they will go back after Castro craps out? Yeah right! I work in Hialeah where when i got into an accident one day the cop barely spoke English, WTF!!!

I have to agree with Jr Bullit on this issue. If you want to be a Citizen of the US (They are Americans already so lets all put that label to bed shall we?) then come on in enroll in some language classes and get a job. Buy stuff and make the economy go round. But if you just want to mooch off the wellfare system or live in "little Havanna" not learn english and bitch about how we need all the state doc.s and signs to be in Spanish while schools quit giving any choices as to what foriegn language we get to learn then get back in your inner tube and paddle your butt back home.

I am surprisingly not a racist at all, but the longer I live here the more I sound like one. My biggest beef with the immigrants here though is they didn't grow up driving here and don't know what the "fast lane" is. That pizzes me off more than the language thing, that and deoderant. We wear it in this country!!!! Become a US citizen, wear deoderant and get the F out of the left lane if you're goin slower than the guy behind you or if the guy in the lane next to you hasn't changed in three miles!!!!!

Ty

 

[Toshi]

I don't have a problem with immigration per say, I do think maybe the entry process needs to be fixed and THEN the crack down on unlawful residents cranked up a bit, only because the idea of their being off the record also means they tend to be using things like fake drivers licences and such and not insured etc. But I live in S. FL where it is a little different than CA.

Here we have boatloads of Haitians swarming ashore and Cubans who state right from the outset that they are Cuban NOT American, like they will go back after Castro craps out? Yeah right! I work in Hialeah where when i got into an accident one day the cop barely spoke English, WTF!!!

I have to agree with Jr Bullit on this issue. If you want to be a Citizen of the US (They are Americans already so lets all put that label to bed shall we?) then come on in enroll in some language classes and get a job. Buy stuff and make the economy go round. But if you just want to mooch off the wellfare system or live in "little Havanna" not learn english and bitch about how we need all the state doc.s and signs to be in Spanish while schools quit giving any choices as to what foriegn language we get to learn then get back in your inner tube and paddle your butt back home.

I am surprisingly not a racist at all, but the longer I live here the more I sound like one. My biggest beef with the immigrants here though is they didn't grow up driving here and don't know what the "fast lane" is. That pizzes me off more than the language thing, that and deoderant. We wear it in this country!!!! Become a US citizen, wear deoderant and get the F out of the left lane if you're goin slower than the guy behind you or if the guy in the lane next to you hasn't changed in three miles!!!!!

Ty

you don't sound racist. you sound insecure and afraid of the immigrants. also, i take issue with the sentiment that "buy[ing] stuff" is what makes one american...

 

[Fonzie18]

Oh my. That's all I can say.
It can be generalized through the last couple of posts (except Toshi and PUNKASS) that people are:
-Scared to travel or be around large concentrations of foreign people.
-Hispanics do not know how to drive, but then again isn't it the asians who are not supposed to be allowed to drive?
-Most immigrants like to "mooch off the wellfare system" and "not learn english and bitch about how we need all the state doc.s and signs to be in Spanish while schools quit giving any choices as to what foriegn language we get to learn then get back in your inner tube and paddle your butt back home."
-sure that most gangs are composed of "ethnic" people.
-....

Eh, too much pointless posts to reply to.

 

[ummbikes]

Oh my. That's all I can say.
It can be generalized through the last couple of posts (except Toshi and PUNKASS) that people are:
-Scared to travel or be around large concentrations of foreign people.
-Hispanics do not know how to drive, but then again isn't it the asians who are not supposed to be allowed to drive?
-Most immigrants like to "mooch off the wellfare system" and "not learn english and bitch about how we need all the state doc.s and signs to be in Spanish while schools quit giving any choices as to what foriegn language we get to learn then get back in your inner tube and paddle your butt back home."
-sure that most gangs are composed of "ethnic" people.
-....

Eh, too much pointless posts to reply to.

True and true.

As a side note, my grandmother could pilot her van down a busy 101 while containing my uncles and myself from killing each other on the way back from the store where she bought her groceries with cash, to take back to her home in San Mateo that she owned. Not bad for a damn Mexican eh?

Around here it's white people, I'm half Irish/Welsh so I can say this , that work the welfare system like pro's. Sure, some Latinos do too, but way more Anglos.

 

[clancy98]

well one other POV on the language thing. I am usually very friendly with my neighbors and when I moved in to my apartment I tried to meet my neighbors but they didn't speak english and I think they were put off by my forwardness. When we had the big ice storm, I offered to help chip one of their cars out while mine was warming up, but again, I just got strange unfriendly looks. What should I do? I speak high school spanish, but I dont want to offend them further by hacking their language.

CLancy

 

[TheMontashu]

Is that a glock, XD, or HK?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

If you live in a non-union state like TN, illegal immigration sucks on so many levels.

so, are you pro-unions?