[ALEXIS_DH]

So, am 37 years old, married with 2 kids, ages 5 and 2.

During this last pandemic, I discovered my life calling. I want to be a homemaker. Unfortunately I dont have a sugar momma, which means I have to work.

Starting in my 20s I rose up the corporate ranks working for Toyota and later Mercedes-Benz eventually reaching senior contry-level positions and later moving to my first C-level job at a mid-sized leading locally-owned automotive company (200+ employees).

Thing is, am sick and tired of that shit for the most part. Sick of the 60+ hour workweeks, and general asshatery and pettiness involved in people management and the political bs.

What do I want?
- Mid-range position at a major great-place-to-work type of company
- Great work-life balance and short commute, home-office if possible.

What am willing to give up?
- Half my current salary (which would put me in the market salary for said positions).

Due to some investments made in my 20s; I can take a 50% pay cut and keep pretty much my current lifestyle.
I even think I can make my side hustles/businesses be even more profitable with more extra time (which I currently dont have) and come out financially ahead in the medium term.

How do you talk about this in an interview without coming across as an arrogant or "this guy does not need to work here"? or "he is just looking for a bridge job and will leave us soon"
Is it a good idea to disclose I have other sources of income (which can be interpreted as "I have other business interests which might take my attention from this job every now and then") when the interviewer raises and eyebrow when you say "yes, ill quit my current job and take a 50% cut to come work with you"

I interviewed for a mid-level position at a major japanese corporation last year... but the japanese CEO looked at me with a wtf face.
I disclosed my current salary and benefits, said I would like to work with them because they are a great to place to work and blablabla... yet the guy looked at me like he didnt believed me.
I did not disclose the fact I have other sources of income, as I did not want him to think I would not focus 100% on the job tho.

Anybody else done something like this?

 

[canadmos]

Why mention your previous salary and whatnot? As long as your work experience qualifies you for the job AND you aren't a dumbass, it shouldn't matter.

 

[jonKranked]

have i done it? no. not yet. it's something i'm considering in the future, because at this rate my current job will be the death of me. there are other factors currently at play which may help to enable this path in the not so distant future. that being said, if i were in the position of evaluating making that leap, the first question i would be asking myself is "what do i want to do" more so than "where do i want to work"

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Why mention your previous salary and whatnot? As long as your work experience qualifies you for the job AND you aren't a dumbass, it shouldn't matter.

Because my resume says something like: "upper management at Toyota/Mercedes, Chief Executive at local-company with 9 digit sales volume, oversaw teams of 100+ people"...
and the first question am asked is "how much are you looking to get? whats your salary situation/expectations and why are you applying to a job supervising 3 guys without a company car that pays half the market rate for your previous positions.

When the topic of money comes up (its been twice so far)... it seems they get suspicious or think there is something else going on and i hit a roadblock

 

[Toshi]

This is a :monocle: thread. That is all.

 

[Jozz]

Why don't you just start building homes?

Assuming you got some experience already...

 

[jonKranked]

the first question am asked is "how much are you looking to get? whats your salary situation/expectations and why are you applying to a job supervising 3 guys without a company car that pays half the market rate for your previous positions.

it's all in how you answer the question. be honest (enough) and sincere. if you're tired of chasing salary and are looking to improve your enjoyment in your job and your work life balance, tell them that.

 

[AngryMetalsmith]

Have you considered taking an extraordinarily long DH shuttle run while wearing a GoPro and posting it here, to clear one's head ?

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

it's all in how you answer the question. be honest (enough) and sincere. if you're tired of chasing salary and are looking to improve your enjoyment in your job and your work life balance, tell them that.

How do you say that without coming across as a slacker?

I remember when I was an uppper manager in my early 30s and had a shot at a C-level job at Mercedes-Benz.

One day, a C-level came to my office and asked me "what do you want from the future, how do you see yourself in this company in 5 years?".
And I was very honest and answered "I like doing what am doing. 100%. Am very happy in the exact position am now".
I distinctively remember his face. I knew right then I had made the wrong answer. From that point, he referred to me as "unmotivated" and "relaxed".
It seems the correct answer in corporate is "I will kill newborns and pimp my daughter for a promotion and extra money, if necessary".

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Have you considered taking an extraordinarily long DH shuttle run while wearing a GoPro and posting it here, to clear one's head ?

Cant do. Havent ridden a bike in the mountains more than once/twice in over 2 years thanks to my job.
hooray!!

 

[jonKranked]

How do you say that without coming across as a slacker?

get your corporate buzzwords out and tell them that chasing salary led to reduced overall satisfaction over time, but you didn't realize it until it became so significant. or some such corporate speak.

 

[jonKranked]

One day, a C-level came to my office and asked me "what do you want from the future, how do you see yourself in this company in 5 years?".
And I was very honest and answered "I like doing what am doing. 100%. Am very happy in the exact position am now".
I distinctively remember his face. I knew right then I had made the wrong answer. From that point, he referred to me as "unmotivated" and "relaxed".

well answer is obvious now, you should have eyed him up for size, and told him you would finally be wearing a 3 piece suit made from human skin. HIS human skin.

 

[binary visions]

I think this is simpler than you believe, but it will be challenging.

There are no magic words; you just tell them what you have shared here. Directly. And I think you must accept that the types of businesses or hiring managers who equate that with "slacker," or who refuse to trust that someone might feel that way, are the types of businesses you will not want to work for.

You may want to look for small businesses, or companies in spaces that aren't as brutally competitive as the automotive market. But overall, you will probably just have to go on more interviews than you might expect. Downgrading your employment isn't always easy, because lots of businesses fear you're just going to jump ship.

I've interviewed people who were looking for something much more junior than their experience suggested. Universally, they had the same situation: they were looking to slow down, reduce their stress, and improve their work/life balance. My company values that, so it's no bad thing to hear. Not every company will.

 

[chuffer]

First of all, it seems to me that you answered the question posed by the MB C-suiter correctly.

Very interesting topic. To some extent I have just gone through this. Although, in my case the process began involuntarily. My company got bought-out by a larger company scooping up new technology. As part of the process, I negotiated to be down-graded out of an upper level management position into a subject matter expert position. There were a lot of weird faces and plenty of suspicion. I was brutally honest - you want my expertise and I no longer want the stress.

An aspect of your plan that hasn't been mentioned: will you be able keep the capabilities and instincts that got you to where you are now in check at the new job? That is to some degree what you will need to do. Literally, you will need to slack - make an effort to work below your potential. You will see decisions and plans made by management and leadership that your experience and know-how allow you to judge as sub-optimal. You will need to "stay in your lane" and swallow that judgement for a couple of reasons: 1) It won't be your job to address this type of issue anymore and/or 2) No one is going to (want to) listen to a lower level "know-it-all" and/or 3) it will seem like your goal all along was to come in low and undermine current management.

Yet another perspective: What you are saying can very easily be perceived as "I will give half effort for half pay." You need to change that story very convincingly to "I want to do something else and don't care that it pays less."

Frankly, I think you are going to have a tough time convincing people. Not saying there aren't chances out there, but you are gonna get a lot wtf-looks.

Why not start a consulting firm and do gig work?

 

[Jm_]

I think this is simpler than you believe, but it will be challenging.

There are no magic words; you just tell them what you have shared here. Directly. And I think you must accept that the types of businesses or hiring managers who equate that with "slacker," or who refuse to trust that someone might feel that way, are the types of businesses you will not want to work for.

You may want to look for small businesses, or companies in spaces that aren't as brutally competitive as the automotive market. But overall, you will probably just have to go on more interviews than you might expect. Downgrading your employment isn't always easy, because lots of businesses fear you're just going to jump ship.

I've interviewed people who were looking for something much more junior than their experience suggested. Universally, they had the same situation: they were looking to slow down, reduce their stress, and improve their work/life balance. My company values that, so it's no bad thing to hear. Not every company will.

Yeah, because you can at least weed out the bosses and companies that just want to play a fucking game. The "where do you see yourself in 5 years" bullshit question, the straining to answer stuff in the "right way" to make them happy, etc. I have no problem giving effort, but the older I get, the less I'm about bullshit. Work life balance is important, it struggles with money as the most important, but they go back and forth for sure.

 

[rideit]

Get a job as a Tennis Pro at Inca Golf, and find yourself a sugar mama.
in all seriousness, good luck.
you never know, you could click with ‘just the right’ type of company with a chill mindset.
you are a smart guy.

 

[maxyedor]

That's essentially what I did moving from the commercial construction industry back into the Defense industry. It was a 30% pay cut, which didn't really come up in the interview process, what the owners of the new company were curious about was the reasoning. They were baffled as to why I'd go from overseeing multiple crews on multi million dollar projects to the junior engineering position they were looking to fill, I think because they feared I may have fucked up and needed to take the hit, I answered honestly, I just hated my old job and wanted my nights and weekends back. That seemed to satisfy them, I'd stick with that tactic. Make your position and reasoning clear, no sense in jumping ship only to find out the new company values your personal life even less than the current one.

In my experience Japanese companies don't rank work/life balance very high in terms of importance, sometimes it's even considered a negative that you'd even want it. I'd assume that's your problem in the specific interview. It doesn't jive with their corporate culture to want a 9-5 that you can switch off when your shift is done, they're not going to be thrilled to hire somebody they already know doesn't want to dedicate their life to the company.


Is taking a demotion at your current job a possibility? If I'm in charge, I'd rather keep a good guy in my organization, even if that means allowing them to take a step back than lose them altogether.

 

[jimmydean]

I left the salary field blank when I took a huge hit driving tow truck. He asked why, I told him it was different work with different pay scales. I was willing to accept what he was willing to offer because I had zero experience, but learn quickly. He appreciated my honesty.

I would leave previous salary out of it if you can and focus on highlighting your abilities.

 

[Jm_]

One of the biggest problems is fair compensation, still, in 2020. Like if they want you to work more than 40hrs/week, then it damn well better be optional, and you damn well better be compensated for it. This is the bullshit that most of us get tired playing. We rationalize it when we are younger as "paying dues" and "getting ahead", but it's never right or ok. Those companies that have the correct balance here are generally good companies to work for and have generally happy employees IME. I remember one of the jobs I had delivering soda/beer/drinks and they worked you pretty damn hard, but they treated pretty damn fair too, pretty religious with overtime tracking and good compensation to start with. But when the expectation starts to be that people will work 60 hours, spend hours on-site without getting paid, etc., it starts to go south quickly. As a flight instructor, we were abused pretty bad by a major university...the biggest in that field. At the end I was making pretty good $$$, but really only getting paid for about 60-70% of the work done and that just wears you the hell out. We got some important changes and more have happened since, but so many of these companies can't see the forest for the trees and then they act totally surprised when people say bad things about working there. I remember how my boss blew up when I told him I could no longer meet with him about students since they decided to stop paying us to do so. This is why I'm not surprised when we find out that very large companies have insanely toxic corporate cultures. It's definitely out there and people that think business is "self-regulating" are idiots.

 

[jstuhlman]

it's a simple answer, really. work/life balance is killing you; you'd rather put in more effort for a job that you're passionate about than keep going with the way things are. and you have the skills and experience from your current gig to be extremely successful at whatever you're applying for. if they ask about salary discrepency, it circles back to the quality of life and that when you're happy with that, you have more energy to put into the job.

i realized that in my current (but very different) career years ago. maybe eventually, once kids are older and i feel like it's OK to devote more time for more $, I'll reconsider. but i've made it clear to both my bosses and headhunters that call that for now i like that i do and have more to accomplish in the role i'm in (which, for my industry, is paying me comfortably, assuming i continue to have a job in the coming months . . . )

 

[binary visions]

Yet another perspective: What you are saying can very easily be perceived as "I will give half effort for half pay." You need to change that story very convincingly to "I want to do something else and don't care that it pays less."

This is a good point. That said, I'd have to wonder if the people who perceive it that way are the ones you don't want to work for.

I wouldn't focus too much on details (e.g. the specific hours you work, don't puff up the story too much with your accomplishments), because your story can get lost there. No discussions of external income sources at the interview.

Simple: you have a family and are looking for a better work/life balance so you don't miss out on these years with your young kids. You will work hard for the company, but contributing at your previous level meant you never got to see your family, and the stress was interfering with your ability to enjoy the time you did spend with them.

That's it. If you get follow-up questions, you can answer them honestly, but I would not turn this into a word game. The more you hide your intentions, the greater the likelihood that you'll end up in a business that is a bad fit. You literally want people to reject you if they feel that comes across like you're a slacker or lazy. You are looking for a hiring manager and a business who hears those words and agrees with them.

 

[I Are Baboon]

Some good advice in this thread. Don't overthink this...just be honest and hit on the points you mentioned, and do so without bashing your former employer. Having done my fair share of candidate interviews, I would never hold it against someone that they want out of management so they can focus on actual work instead. I care more that they are qualified for the job I need them for, and having somebody that well qualified on my staff will only help my department. Sometimes I envy the people in staff positions that can just concentrate on work without having to deal with management crap.

 

[Fool]

Are your general sausage-stuffing skills something you can go out on your own with, rather than going back to yet another company? That's the shit, if you can make it work.

 

[jebfour]

I didn't see where you mentioned this and it may or may not be applicable to your particular situation, but If you're required to travel currently and the potential new position would not require it, that's an easy response that most employers understand and answers many of the questions before they are even asked. Before the current COVID situation, I was getting the "you're overqualified" response frequently. When I said I wanted to reduce (or eliminate) the amount of travel, it seemed to put them at ease.

 

[Adventurous]

This is a good point. That said, I'd have to wonder if the people who perceive it that way are the ones you don't want to work for.

I wouldn't focus too much on details (e.g. the specific hours you work, don't puff up the story too much with your accomplishments), because your story can get lost there. No discussions of external income sources at the interview.

Simple: you have a family and are looking for a better work/life balance so you don't miss out on these years with your young kids. You will work hard for the company, but contributing at your previous level meant you never got to see your family, and the stress was interfering with your ability to enjoy the time you did spend with them.

That's it. If you get follow-up questions, you can answer them honestly, but I would not turn this into a word game. The more you hide your intentions, the greater the likelihood that you'll end up in a business that is a bad fit. You literally want people to reject you if they feel that comes across like you're a slacker or lazy. You are looking for a hiring manager and a business who hears those words and agrees with them.

I believe that your prior achievements have demonstrated that you are not a slacker and are capable of being a high performer.

And there is nothing wrong with wanting a less demanding job, circumstances change, people get burnt out, you find yourself working in a role thats deviated from where your passion and focus really is. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, and those who don't understand are the same people you don't want to work for anyway.

Besides, you are still young enough to change the trajectory of your career. Plenty of people find themselves in their 30s and 40s and pivot in another direction. You may be closing a door to the elite managerial status, but if you are in a financial position to do so why not? It doesn't sound like the work is personally fulfilling anyway...

 

[Westy]

It is pretty common at my company for managers to request demotions and return to the rank and file for life balance reasons. Senior engineers here make more than managers but it typically takes 20 years to get there while someone can become a manager in less than 10.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

There is some seriously good advice and things I havent thought about in this thread.
Thats why I like RM so much, I have found some profoundly wise insights/perspective here over the years that have helped a lot.

I dont have a college degree. I dropped out of college at age 20 (mechanical engineering), then went to a 1 year trade school for auto mechanics... a couple years later I started working at a Toyota dealership from the bottom (service adviser) and just worked my way up by basically being a good problem solver.

As such, my skills are very industry-specific and there is very little chance I can work outside the car industry..
I can either develop the strategies for business side and roll out the execution (which I have been doing for the last 6-7 years) or do the technical support/warranties/recalls/product development (which I enjoy the most, and which I did at the beginning of my career).

Thing is, my school of thought for business follows Musk´s ideas. I try to reduce everything to fundamental blocks, crunch data and come up with solutions/hypothesis to maximize revenue/profit/marketshare/costumer satisfaction or whatever KPI is trendy at that moment in time. I tend to play it loose and scout opportunities for max return on investment/effort. Digging for 2-3 untapped "jackpots" per year, and results are delivered.

And this is where most of the problems reside.
I believe, if the logic is sound and the initial interpretation of reality is correct, the outcome is very black and white.
The execution just becomes a matter of hiring the right people and keeping spirits high over time.
If people in my team want time off, flex time I have not problem with that as long as the execution/results follow strategy, which is usually the case if the people hired match the culture/mindset.
When everything is in sync, stuff gets done and results get delivered.

But pitching this to a board, a CEO or a chairman???
Thats a huge pain in the ass. If my reading of reality says "Well grow 10% if we play all our cards right, because thats what the market will bear under out current business model".... but the board/chairman say "well, I expect 30% of growth this year," by pulling the number out of his ass, or demands numbers to be made by throwing employees under the bus (which is VERY short-sighted even from a financial pov), approval of plans just becomes a dick-sucking contest.
Facts become irrelevant, the talk becomes esoteric and decisions are made on whims or dick-sucking abilities, which I call "politics"... and this is the MOST frustrating part to me, by far.

As far as options, yes a more technical job (far from the money making front lines) would be nice.

Doing consulting or business of my own?
Well, I already have a couple of ecommerce businesses which I started on my free time many years ago.
They have been profitable (about 30-35% net yearly return), even though I spend 6 hours/week managing them.... but a "9-5 main job" would be nice for the health insurance, social interaction and stable paychecks coming every month.
I dont know if am comfortable yet to go all in into my side businesses.

 

[Toshi]

Have faith in yourself, Alexis. Go fulltime on your camgirl side business!

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Have faith in yourself, Alexis. Go fulltime on your camgirl side business!

Gotta work on those stretches and invest in bigger toys

 

[stoney]

When I went from the Investment Bank to retirement plans, I was straight forward. I was working 12+ hours per day, had to be at my desk at 4am, and it was killing me. I wanted to have a normal life with normal hours and a normal work-life balance. I work hard, I just want to be able to have a workload that allows me to take vacations, see my family, and do more than just work and sleep.

You don't get as far as you have without being someone who can work hard and bring good things to the table. Any good company will see that and want to take advantage of it.

 

[StiHacka]

Any good company

^
contradiction detector goes "beep"

 

[Toshi]

I work hard, I just want to be able to have a workload that allows me to take vacations, see my family, and do more than just work and sleep.

Carving out time for weeks’ worth of home improvement is important

 

[eaterofdog]

Lie. You lie your ass off, say you got a terminally sick kid or slowly dying parent (or whatever) and you can't do a 60 hour a week job to your best ability.

Good luck getting off that hamster wheel.

 

[Jm_]

Lie. You lie your ass off, say you got a terminally sick kid or slowly dying parent (or whatever) and you can't do a 60 hour a week job to your best ability.

Good luck getting off that hamster wheel.

That's what gets so fucked up about this, they essentially want you to lie, when you look at how people are evaluated and the BS answers they are "looking for".