Quantcast

how to negotiate a raise, and the ethics of leverage

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ALEXIS_DH, Jun 18, 2012.

  1. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 108
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,286
    Location:
    Lima, Peru, Peru
    so, i´ve been working almost 5 years for a large company, which is a worldwide leader for its sector, although locally we are like 3rd/4th, due to lousy management basically. (my division seems, literally, to be taken from a dilbert episode).

    i´ve been promoted twice (plus one "unofficial" promotion, where i was given a whole lot more responsabilities for a little less money when i switched departments), thing is, i feel grossly underpaid for the position and title, considering i do a lot of different things, from managing a small group of people, to sales projections, costs control and overseas presentations on behalf of the company (as a "country manager", when i do not have the title).

    so, i started sniffing around for jobs in my industry 7 days ago. within 5 days, i was called by a headhunter asking for my $$$ requirements, and had another job interview with a company (small local company, which is like the 8th biggest player).

    i asked for twice what i making here. got a call today, saying they appreciate the time i took to interview with them, and while i fit the profile for the position, am out of their budget.
    they budget for the position is 30% more of what i make here (plus i get the "manager" title). i replied asking if they could raise their budget to 160% of my current salary. the general manager at the other place said, he would have to ask the owners for that, and would get back to me in a few days.

    now, i´d go from very stable, position in a 500+ employee (in the local branch) corporation to a 30 years old, family owned company with 40 employees; and for this risk, i consider twice the salary a good starting point.

    now, it seems my market value is at least 30% more of what am making here..... so maybe, considering i will not get a 100% raise, it be smarter to use the other´s company offer (30%+ more, and maybe even 40-60%) to leverage a raise in my company.

    now the question is.... how to approach the boss to leverage a raise?

    to complicate things, i have a business meeting in brazil in july, where i will meet all the country managers from south america, and a few japanese big suits. now, this is a meeting i´d pretty much like to attend, as i would network with all the country managers from the region, which would prove extremely useful in the next few years..... so, any job changes, would, ideally, be made after the end of july.

    leverage now for 50% more (and a better schedule and title), or wait a few weeks for more offers, and assuming i get a better one, then leverage when i do? or take the position?
    would it hurt me to leave the company 2 weeks after the bi-annual country manager´s meeting in brazil? (heck, i do not have the title, but i will go as country manager because there is nobody else at my company, not even my boss, with enough knowledge to go).
     
    #1 -   Jun 18, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. MTB_Rob_NC

    MTB_Rob_NC What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 0
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,438
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Once you make that move you will be the first to be asked to leave if things ever go south. It is never a good idea to give your company an ultimatem. The bottom line is, if you can make more money some where else go do it.
     
  3. johnbryanpeters

    Rep/Likes:
    244 / 2,674
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2001
    Messages:
    24,887
    Location:
    Making moss sad in New Haven, Vermont
    Within any company, I have simply found that if I say that I want $x, with no drama, threats or demands, i get it.
     
  4. norbar

    norbar Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    29 / 280
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    9,405
    Location:
    Warsaw :/
    To be honest if you say your company is like a dilbert episode why not try a new one? They pay more and there is a potential for better work atmosphere. Also do you think the company can expand in the coming years? If yes your salary could grow much faster than it would in your current job. Also looking at my small experience as well as my parents experience at verious managerial stages it is usually less stressful to work at a higher position in a smaller company. The atmosphere in most cases is better and there are less - corporate standars - which are almost always the worst thing imaginable.
     
  5. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    174 / 1,522
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    29,046
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I say give the new place a shot. If you don't piss anyone off before leaving, you could return later (for more money, likely).
     
  6. $tinkle

    $tinkle Expert on blowing

    Rep/Likes:
    4 / 5
    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2003
    Messages:
    14,846
    see below
     
  7. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 108
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,286
    Location:
    Lima, Peru, Peru
    well, it seems am not in such a hard position anymore.

    over the last few days, i was contacted twice by a head hunter. had an interview a couple hours ago with a third company.
    They are sending me to talk to the general manager of a very large company (3000+ employees, vs 500+ my current company has) this thursday.
    They say they need to fill the position as soon as possible, and the offer is for almost twice my current salary. Currently i work for Toyota (forklifts), and I would be moving to a company which represents both Caterpillar/Kenworth.
    on the other side, am awaiting for reply from Siemens, and i think i have a good shot at getting an interview...

    This thursday, we will see... ill cross my fingers.... it seems am almost there. on a semi-related funny fact. my bike has already paid for itself. one of my riding buddies owns 15 kenworth trucks and has a very good relationship with cat/kenworth of Peru. He said he would contact the GM and put in a few good words for me, and told me to ask him for help i need a bit more leverage. that contact alone, is worth the price of by dh bike!
     
  8. Jim Mac

    Jim Mac MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN

    Rep/Likes:
    32 / 281
    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    6,458
    Location:
    the middle east of NY
    This is classic business communication, as opposed to interpersonal communication.

    It looks like this:
    1. I want you to do_________________.
    2. This is important because ____________________ (cite your evidence).
    3. Expand on 1-3 points of evidence.
    4. Restate what you want.

    It's also good to know who your audience is to best shape your message. Look up the ideas of game theory, VALS and Myers-Briggs if you really want to prep for this conversation.
     
  9. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
    Staff Member

    Rep/Likes:
    68 / 829
    Joined:
    May 23, 2002
    Messages:
    15,590
    Location:
    01776
  10. jimmydean

    jimmydean The Official Meat of Ridemonkey

    Rep/Likes:
    174 / 1,522
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2001
    Messages:
    29,046
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    I have always felt this way. If you know what you are worth or feel devalued by your current situation, then go somewhere that values you. I don't like having to ask for a raise. I feel like if I have earned it and it is available, I should be offered it without asking.

    <edit> I also get wicked bored at work (look at my post count :rofl: )
     
  11. Austin Bike

    Austin Bike Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,560
    Location:
    Duh, Austin
    That is 1000% correct. Never take a counteroffer. The first thing that you have to decide before you talk to anyone is are you going to leave or stay. Once you have decided to leave there should not be anything to keep you there. Unless there is a psycho boss that suddenly leaves, once you have activated the launch sequence the rocket needs to leave the pad.
     
  12. DirtMcGirk

    DirtMcGirk <b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm

    Rep/Likes:
    1 / 0
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,463
    Location:
    Oz
    You want leverage? Okay, try this plan:

    1. Walk in with this in your hand:


    2. Scream "Y U NO GIVE RAISE!!!"

    3. Profit.
     
  13. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 108
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,286
    Location:
    Lima, Peru, Peru
    i have my fingers on the switch waiting to activate the launch sequence.

    i have 2 job interviews on monday. for caterpillar in the morning, and for kenworth in the afternoon.
    hopefully one of them goes thru.
     
  14. stoney

    stoney Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde

    Rep/Likes:
    118 / 1,152
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    13,450
    Location:
    Colorado
    wait until you have a confirmed acceptance contract signed. Leave no openings for issues.
     
  15. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 108
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,286
    Location:
    Lima, Peru, Peru
    good thinking. will do that. its been like 5 years since i interviewed for the last time!..

    currently, i have a firm offer for 30% more at a small (50-60 people) company, and i have until next week to take it.

    But i wont leave Toyota for a small family-owned company, not for 30% more... I decided not to leverage my boss, and now am actively looking for jorbs..... seems i am grossly underpaid, considering what i have seen in the market....

    kenworth offers 80% more of my current salary, plus the title am looking for. i have already interviewed with them 2 days ago, passed all the tests and stuff. on monday, i get to talk to the general manager to see if I get a firm offer or not.

    i talked over the phone with caterpillar a couple days ago, and was asked to come for an interview on monday am (before my interview with kenworth), but i do not know the salary yet.....

    we´ll see..
     
    #15 -   Jun 21, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2012
  16. canadmos

    canadmos Mater Slayer

    Rep/Likes:
    236 / 4,400
    Joined:
    May 29, 2011
    Messages:
    8,990
    Location:
    Canaderp
    While I have no input on the subject, I just want to say that this thread is amazing. So much good advice that I am absorbing. Thanks.
     
  17. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 108
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,286
    Location:
    Lima, Peru, Peru
    really. besides being a source for comedy, RM has some pretty sound advice sometimes....
     
  18. jasride

    jasride Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    2 / 4
    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2006
    Messages:
    1,088
    Location:
    PA

    Are you taking personal days to attend these interviews? Or are they done after hrs? I just had an interview with a company that wanted to meet after hours ( early evening ) and the second one could be around the same time. Just curious.
     
  19. ALEXIS_DH

    ALEXIS_DH Tirelessly Awesome

    Rep/Likes:
    19 / 108
    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2003
    Messages:
    5,286
    Location:
    Lima, Peru, Peru
    well, my company owes me about 60 or 70 (i have lost count really, no wonder) vacation days... so i´ve started taking a few days off...

    i took an afternoon off for an interview. another interview was at early evening.... and am taking next monday off, in order to attend 3 interviews during the day (9am, 1pm, and 5pm).
     
  20. Austin Bike

    Austin Bike Turbo Monkey

    Rep/Likes:
    0 / 0
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2003
    Messages:
    1,560
    Location:
    Duh, Austin
    Then you should check out this:
    http://www.austinbike.com/advice/career.asp

    The advice about not saying anything until you have signed the paperwork is a great piece of advice also. Makes it harder for you to be swayed by a counter offer. That helps you Ho
    D the high ground and stick to your decision. Also, should something happen at the last minute you are not stuck in a bad spot.