HR people: what's up with...
- Thread starter LordOpie
- Start date
Along those lines, what is the best way to approach salary requirements? Too high and you look like you're trying to take advantage or are overconfident. Too low and you look desperate. Especially in my field, there aren't really any published salary ranges for entry level. However, if I got a government job right now I would be GS-09. So, I have been putting the base GS-09 salary with the justification that I could go gov't if need be.
Is that a reasonable argument, or does the old "start lower, end higher" thing with private industry trump the gov't argument?
Is that a reasonable argument, or does the old "start lower, end higher" thing with private industry trump the gov't argument?
Very GOOD question!
Don't disclose salary requirements right off the bat. Wait until later interviews to tackle that subject.
Not that I go from job to job very often...but I always when it comes to salary requirements I always put down what it takes to make me happy but withing reason. I don't subscribe to the philisophy that "happiness is a paycheck," but reality is that your paycheck plays a pretty important part in the way you live.
Awhile back I lost a job, spent 2 months on unenjoyment, and then got a new job at the same pay that I was making before. I was quite happy with that. Then found out that all the people that got hired on at the same time were making as much as $2 more an hour. It pissed me off, but I had to go back and remember that I was happy with what they hired me at. On my first review, I told my manager that, even though salaries are not to be discussed....well, they are no matter what; I told him I knew that these people were making more money than me and that was incentive for me to be the hardest worker in the department because they could afford to give me bigger raises to catch me up to what they were paying everyone else. I worked there for four years and was the last one to quit out of the new hires that were in my group!!!
Awhile back I lost a job, spent 2 months on unenjoyment, and then got a new job at the same pay that I was making before. I was quite happy with that. Then found out that all the people that got hired on at the same time were making as much as $2 more an hour. It pissed me off, but I had to go back and remember that I was happy with what they hired me at. On my first review, I told my manager that, even though salaries are not to be discussed....well, they are no matter what; I told him I knew that these people were making more money than me and that was incentive for me to be the hardest worker in the department because they could afford to give me bigger raises to catch me up to what they were paying everyone else. I worked there for four years and was the last one to quit out of the new hires that were in my group!!!
I'm not HR, but I'm close enough...
There are budgets to consider when hiring people, as well as making sure there are no potential parity issues with existing employees in bringing in someone new. They can't bring someone in if someone's looking for $70k and people in similar positions in the company are making $50k. My advice from the employer side of the fence is to be honest about what you're looking for salary-wise. Employers understand there will be negotiating. Your requirements are a ballpark figure.
BTW, when they ask for your salary requirements, give them a direct answer instead of dragging it out (and using a recruiter eliminates your need to negotiate altogether).
As far why companies don't tell you the salary range of a position, well yeah, that annoys the snot out of me.
There are budgets to consider when hiring people, as well as making sure there are no potential parity issues with existing employees in bringing in someone new. They can't bring someone in if someone's looking for $70k and people in similar positions in the company are making $50k. My advice from the employer side of the fence is to be honest about what you're looking for salary-wise. Employers understand there will be negotiating. Your requirements are a ballpark figure.
BTW, when they ask for your salary requirements, give them a direct answer instead of dragging it out (and using a recruiter eliminates your need to negotiate altogether).
As far why companies don't tell you the salary range of a position, well yeah, that annoys the snot out of me.
I used to get bent out of shape over who made what and why. I was making A LOT more money before the bubble burst. I also got out of the tech industry and went to work for a tow truck company to put things into perspective.
After that, I noticed I liked my old job, I liked doing it, and it paid well enough for me and my family. I did some research online and found out what someone else thought was my range and went form there.
I asked for $65k at my new place and $65k is what they offered. I didn't haggle, but they did promise a 6 month review for all employees with salary adjustments then.
I figure if they like me, they will pay me. I'm happy on $65k, I've made a lot more in the past, but it supports me and mine well enough, and I like what I am doing.
After that, I noticed I liked my old job, I liked doing it, and it paid well enough for me and my family. I did some research online and found out what someone else thought was my range and went form there.
I asked for $65k at my new place and $65k is what they offered. I didn't haggle, but they did promise a 6 month review for all employees with salary adjustments then.
I figure if they like me, they will pay me. I'm happy on $65k, I've made a lot more in the past, but it supports me and mine well enough, and I like what I am doing.
Ciaran said:
Any company with that philosophy will never attract or keep top talent.
My wife is in the HR field. I will have her read this and maybe she can give a good explanation.
Well, if you were a hiring manager and had a budget of 45 - 80 K for an employee, wouldn't you rather pay them 45k instead of 80k?I Are Baboon said:
Any company with that philosophy will never attract or keep top talent.
Of course my company has made me bitter and jaded. I should also say thaty I have only worked for one really big corporation in a corporate job (my current position) so I don't know if other companies are as evil as mine. I may just be (as usual) talking out of my ass.
I do know that asking someone how much they make is grounds for termination. Can't have people asking for more money. I ask for a raise and they tell me that I am in line with everyone else yet the last guy they hired, that I helped to train, is making 13K ayear more then me. So yes, companies CAN hire new people at higher rates and have large salary discrepencies among similar employees. There is a saying here in this company... if you want a raise you have to quit for 6 months and then get rehired.
I do get tons of vacation time though. 25 days a year, not counting holidays.
I think the whole game is stupid so I usually give a diplomatic response that winds up frustrating them...sam_little said:
"While a fair compensation package is important, I'd rather focus on what opportunities and fun challeges your company/organization will provide."
"Money is only one component of the compensation package. May I ask about the other parts, such as health benefits? Also, is there a salary range/budget established for this position?"
Of course this assumes that companies and hiring managers want to attract and keep top talent. My experience is that this is not the case at all. COmpanies want company people, not the best people. Nobody who will or could rock the boat is required. I was hired for one job, but when the manager found out I had more education than her, it was all down hill from there. It was a customer service job and I was told I was spending too much time with the customers. Go figure. Most inside jobs need something just above a trained monkey to do them. Top talent in that case means someone who shows up. I say this from my cubicle.I Are Baboon said:
Any company with that philosophy will never attract or keep top talent.
Online research about salaries is a very good call. Going in with a realistic expectation is always an advantage. I would tend to treat it like a standard negotiation. Set a target range, (based on your research) and start just above the high end of it. You will work your way down from there, but if done right, both parties will end up feeling like they got a good deal.
Do not evade direct questions. We interviewed a person yesterday; they bombed, and one of the reasons was their failure to answer direct questions.LordOpie said:
J
So you are recommending a frustrating response in an interview? Bad idea. Be straight and answer the question, an interview is not the time to demonstrate your ability to be evasive. If your expectations are even remotely in the ballpark it will not hurt your chances.LordOpie said:
EDIT: Damnit Johnbryanpeters, getouttamyhead!!
Honestly, if I'm the hiring manager, it's not my money I'm spending, so I'm not going to low ball anyone. I'm concerned about paying someone a fair amount that is in line with comparable people within the company/department.Ciaran said:
Of course. And generally speaking, companies that don't show it in their level of employee satisfaction, turnover numbers, and quality of product they put out. They're also usually pretty heavy in the HR and Recruiting departments.rigidhack said:
I'm DenJen's wife, and I am an HR Consultant. You are all bringing up a variety of separate issues.
However, main question I saw can be answered this way -- when hiring for a position, companies have a ballpark range of salary they're willing to pay -- reputable companies will not just accept what your lowest salary requirement is. Likewise, you have a range of pay you're willing to accept. When asked the question, give your range. Usually, the first time you are asked to provide a salary requirement is to see if you and the company are even close to the same balpark. True salary negotions are only done when you're a final candidate. Never fear that you are lowballing yourself or pricing yourself out of the position. There is usually overlap between what you want and what the company wants, and that negotiation to a final salary that both parties are pleased with will come when you are the final candidate.
One one of the other questions I noticed in this chain of postings is comapnies not posting the salary range for the job -- they dont want to box themselves in. If you're asked to provide your salary requirements in a cover letter, don't tap dance around that. Put a realistic range for your experience and education (www.salary.com can help). Legitimate companies are just looking for a starting part for negotiating -- if your talent is what they are looking for, it will not matter if you low-balled your salary -- I guarantee you they will pay what the position in that market is worth. If they don't, they'll lose you within a year, and they don't want to risk that.
Again, am happy to answer specific questions if you drop me a note at cdcjensen@yahoo.com.
However, main question I saw can be answered this way -- when hiring for a position, companies have a ballpark range of salary they're willing to pay -- reputable companies will not just accept what your lowest salary requirement is. Likewise, you have a range of pay you're willing to accept. When asked the question, give your range. Usually, the first time you are asked to provide a salary requirement is to see if you and the company are even close to the same balpark. True salary negotions are only done when you're a final candidate. Never fear that you are lowballing yourself or pricing yourself out of the position. There is usually overlap between what you want and what the company wants, and that negotiation to a final salary that both parties are pleased with will come when you are the final candidate.
One one of the other questions I noticed in this chain of postings is comapnies not posting the salary range for the job -- they dont want to box themselves in. If you're asked to provide your salary requirements in a cover letter, don't tap dance around that. Put a realistic range for your experience and education (www.salary.com can help). Legitimate companies are just looking for a starting part for negotiating -- if your talent is what they are looking for, it will not matter if you low-balled your salary -- I guarantee you they will pay what the position in that market is worth. If they don't, they'll lose you within a year, and they don't want to risk that.
Again, am happy to answer specific questions if you drop me a note at cdcjensen@yahoo.com.