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Hubs Points of Engagement

The Breaker Man

The Breaker Man

Monkey
Dec 11, 2007
140
0
Lawn Dart Training Center
Went from a Hadley 150mm 108pt to a Hope 135mm 24pt on my new bike and wish I could still use my old Hadley. Major difference in the engagement point. Not so bad as knees in the bars, but alot more clunky when you get on the power. The ratchet is louder on the Hope, but the Hadley sounded more refined.
 
B

Boxxer

Monkey
Jul 18, 2005
856
2
Dirty South
I run hadleys, I9s, DTswiss FRs, and Profiles without issue. I really dont notice the engagement difference unless Im messing with the bike in the stand and going "hey look how fast this hub engages."

comparing some of the slowest engaging hubs to the quickest engaging shows only fractions of a degree of difference.
 
D

demo8razor

Monkey
Mar 31, 2008
250
0
dumb question about the halo hub, is that a qr hub? or can i run at through axle? how does that work, have only ever had bolt on through axle hub
 
D

demo8razor

Monkey
Mar 31, 2008
250
0
alright thanks, ill have to decide, im not building wheels unless i have money to easily do it, so since thats the case i may go with hadley, but these are an option also





jonKranked said:
their stuff is good. Not quite the high end that hadley, king, etc are. But definitely not just some el cheapo brand.
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zahgurim

zahgurim

Underwater monkey
Mar 9, 2005
1,100
12
lolAsia
Halo's stuff is available in the states, from one of the main distributors. Any bike shop should be able to get it...

Halo's gear is all made in Taiwan, rebranded catalogue stuff.
They don't really do their own designing, but do offer decent stuff at a good price.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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DirtyMike said:
I am thinking also the maintanance will be better, I have seen a few hubs where the engagement ring gets stripped, with this style all you will need is the freehub portion and your back in action!!!
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not to mention its far easier to fit more pawls in. Try-all (makes trials parts) has a freewheel that's 9 pawls.
 
F

FreeRide-Junkie

Monkey
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
I rode a try-all freewheel on my trials bike for a while. I was VERY impressed. I was able to get it right when it came out and I put some hard time on it without a single skip or problem that often seems to come with trials.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
DirtyMike said:
The one with more Pawls, has more than one pawl engaged at a time. Making for as stronger engagement. Most hubs with hi engagement strenth isnt an issue anyways though
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I don't know about that. Hadley abandoned the 108 because they weren't holding up well on average:clue: The 6 degree I9 engagement is also stronger than the 3 degree model...
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Curious_George said:
lets say 2 hub has 120 pts of Eng.

One has more pawls than the other, what would it change?
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Well, number of pawls isn't everything, but assuming they're the same size and material and spring etc in both hubs then more pawls gives:

1) more drag
2) increased reliability (if some pawls slip or break, the others are there to catch)
 
D

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
syadasti said:
I don't know about that. Hadley abandoned the 108 because they weren't holding up well on average:clue: The 6 degree I9 engagement is also stronger than the 3 degree model...
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Hadley abandoned the 108 because they could not get the needed material any more. There were some bad bearings that caused problems.
 
syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
davep said:
Hadley abandoned the 108 because they could not get the needed material any more. There were some bad bearings that caused problems.
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Yeah if they didn't have the material they need they wouldn't hold up so they went to the stronger design with less pt.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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davep said:
Hadley abandoned the 108 because they could not get the needed material any more. There were some bad bearings that caused problems.
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My understanding is that it wasn't the fact that they couldn't get the material anymore, its just that the cost was so high it wasn't worth it.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,790
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borcester rhymes
bump, I feel like this is an interesting topic to revisit and see if we can come up with a list. it's easy to tell what some of the major manufacturers put out, but the smaller ones (like trek, transition, stans) aren't as clear.
 
Muddy

Muddy

ancient crusty bog dude
Jul 7, 2013
2,035
912
Free Soda Refills at Fuddruckers
I'd went from OE-Style hubs (and being told to only use these in-spite) to resuming what'd been done when getting on with BMX many years ago and lacing up my choice of hubs.

Pro2 EVO HOPE on two bikes and e.thirteen hubs on my race bike.

Higher engagement points should not be allowed a counter-point. Having the ability to throw body-mass in conjunction with proper timed crankset rotation has matchless benefit. Velodrome riders are on fixed gears - the level of drama involved in this Olympic Event is utmost, tells the outcome.

Going the distance upon any build of bike will have higher POE Hubsets found a benefit.

Point and squirt type of riding on the North Shore of back yard jump lines will up stage putting energy into the bike; the end of the day what you get out of your ride is what you put in.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,067
10,631
AK
Muddy said:
I'd went from OE-Style hubs (and being told to only use these in-spite) to resuming what'd been done when getting on with BMX many years ago and lacing up my choice of hubs.

Pro2 EVO HOPE on two bikes and e.thirteen hubs on my race bike.

Higher engagement points should not be allowed a counter-point. Having the ability to throw body-mass in conjunction with proper timed crankset rotation has matchless benefit. Velodrome riders are on fixed gears - the level of drama involved in this Olympic Event is utmost, tells the outcome.

Going the distance upon any build of bike will have higher POE Hubsets found a benefit.

Point and squirt type of riding on the North Shore of back yard jump lines will up stage putting energy into the bike; the end of the day what you get out of your ride is what you put in.
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All your points of engagement are belong to us.
 
Udi

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,918
1,213
Muddy said:
Higher engagement points should not be allowed a counter-point.
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More engagements = more pedal feedback on non-idler bikes.
Technically it decreases the forward velocity required to generate pedal feedback, so there's a greater likelihood of feedback occuring in practical situations. Contrary to (recent) popular belief pedal feedback isn't really an issue on most bikes but super fast hubs could make it one.

Fast engaging hubs are nice, around 50 is good, no need for more unless you have a dual-freehub bike (eg. Zerode) that will have sloppy engagement unless you get a zillion engagement point hub.

Depending on implementation, some fast engaging hubs can have a lot of drag as well, to the point of being noticeable.
 
Jm_

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
20,067
10,631
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Udi said:
Fast engaging hubs are nice, around 50 is good, no need for more unless you have a dual-freehub bike (eg. Zerode) that will have sloppy engagement unless you get a zillion engagement point hub.
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But these hubs go to 11?

 
Gallain

Gallain

Monkey
Dec 28, 2001
183
43
Sweden
DT Swiss has a 18T (engagement angle of 20°), and a 36T (engagement angle of 10°). There is also a 54t (engagement angle of 6,6°) upgrade available. 18t will hold up for everything, 36t requires you to a bit more service. I have seen some damaged but not many. I've been running the 54t for a while now and pulled the springs a couple of mm apart when installing the upgrade and have yet to have issues. But considering that it's so much less material in each tooth you will wear it out faster.
 
Electric_City

Electric_City

Torture wrench
Apr 14, 2007
2,047
783
High POE aren't necessary for DH or super fast, non technical trails like Raystown Lake, PA.

But on techy trails they're one of the top improvements you can find besides suspension. I found out when I sent my hub back to Hadley this year. I put on the stock Bontrager rythym wheel for 2 rides and wow, did it suck. Going thru a techy rock garden where you have to carry momentum and punch it where you can, you find out how much it blows when your foot goes from 3 o'clock, back to 2 and when you punch it you drop to 5 to 6 to get momentum. You're hitting rocks with your cranks and your weight shifts forward. Also getting over rocks and fallen trees- if you back pedal and punch, you're going otb.

On a peddaly bike I'll take Hadley, King, I9 over Shimano, Bontrager and DT any day. On a DH, my DT is good enough on engagement, and very reliable.
 
ButtersNZ

ButtersNZ

Monkey
Jun 6, 2013
176
10
Totally agree on the benefits of having more engagement points on techy stuff. I didn't realise just how garbage the 18T POE was on my DT hubs until recently when I jacked the bike up and saw how much wheel movement there was between 'clicks'.

 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,790
7,047
borcester rhymes
If it makes you feel any better, the novatec hub on my low end diamondback has 14 POE. That's like 25.7* of movement in the pedals before a bite. Coasting cracks me up, because it sounds like I'm going so slowly.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
88,671
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Electric_City said:
High POE aren't necessary for DH or super fast, non technical trails like Raystown Lake, PA.

But on techy trails they're one of the top improvements you can find besides suspension. I found out when I sent my hub back to Hadley this year. I put on the stock Bontrager rythym wheel for 2 rides and wow, did it suck. Going thru a techy rock garden where you have to carry momentum and punch it where you can, you find out how much it blows when your foot goes from 3 o'clock, back to 2 and when you punch it you drop to 5 to 6 to get momentum. You're hitting rocks with your cranks and your weight shifts forward. Also getting over rocks and fallen trees- if you back pedal and punch, you're going otb.

On a peddaly bike I'll take Hadley, King, I9 over Shimano, Bontrager and DT any day. On a DH, my DT is good enough on engagement, and very reliable.
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if you're racing, it makes a difference. tick tock tick tock
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,686
3,143
jonKranked said:
if you're racing, it makes a difference. tick tock tick tock
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No, it doesn't. If you need to pedal then you are just not good enough. Ask the YT Mob about that, Gwin and Neko. :D
As Udi mentioned already, a high POE might even drag you down on your chainless winning run. :dirol: ;)
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,644
8,686
iRider said:
As Udi mentioned already, a high POE might even drag you down on your chainless winning run. :dirol: ;)
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With no chain there'd be no freewheeling. Any friction would result in the cassette spinning in concert with the rear wheel--POE irrelevant. :D
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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iRider said:
No, it doesn't. If you need to pedal then you are just not good enough. Ask the YT Mob about that, Gwin and Neko. :D
As Udi mentioned already, a high POE might even drag you down on your chainless winning run. :dirol: ;)
Click to expand...
so then why hasn't the UCI banned drivetrains for DH?
 
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