Vesper is reported to have slipping issues under high torque situations for some riders. They or the older have been on my radar as an alternate if I don't go I9's again on my next trailbike.
Hubs/Wheels
- Thread starter Inclag
- Start date
The "MOAR PRESSURE" crowd doesn't understand how pneumatic tires work. Which is totally fine, because almost no one outside of a select group of automotive engineers actually know how pneumatic tires work.
I'll pretend to be in that group long enough to say this: the difference between the level of tensile loading and therefore spring rate at the contact patch in the tire chords at 20 vs 30 psi is trivial compared to the difference in damping capability between the tire and designated suspension system. If you look at the tire sidewall, the distance it takes for an obstacle to completely compress the tire into the rim is small compared to the overall suspension travel, it's going to hit and hit often. The reason you don't get cracked rims all the time is because the rim should already be moving and the energy of the hit transferred from the tire smoothly through the rim and into the suspension system, to be dissipated as heat in the spring/damper. ProCore/Cushcore work by acting as a damper in the tire, which gives the actual suspension element time to do it's thing, and as a result you get fewer broken rims despite running low pressures. In theory, you could accomplish the same thing with a fantastically sensitive suspension system (which is why small bump sensitivity and initial stiction is something you should pay attention to).
TL;DR: "Service your suspension" is a valid response to "add more air" when it comes to tire/rim durability.
It looks totally bottomed out...
Wasn't expecting that in such a basic situation
I highly recommend not to try riding with 40PSI in les tyres.
Do tell how this happened... and what fails. Something seems very wrong.
Pulled the hub apart trail side and there were metal shavings so it’s done. Wondering if a frame related issue could be at play here or some sort of flex. I pull the rear maxxle off on the regular but always tighten it.
This is highly unusual. I’m guessing something else is going on. The hub was perfect when you started riding?
How much do you weigh?
Does this happen on any other bikes of yours?
What bike is it?
Must have been fubar'd to try that sort of thing trailside....
Those just pull apart w/o tools iirc
Built the hub 1 week ago. Rode it the 1st time Wednesday and blew up today. I'm only 185lbs so I'm not a clydesdale and I have chicken legs, although this is the 4th hub I've now broken on this bike.
Bike is a Mega 290. I'm growing suspicious that something else is contributing to this. Seems like without a wheel but with axle installed I can generate some shear displacement between both ends of the drop out.
Otherwise you don't need tools to dissemble the body of dt swiss so I'm not worried about that.
Bike is a Mega 290. I'm growing suspicious that something else is contributing to this. Seems like without a wheel but with axle installed I can generate some shear displacement between both ends of the drop out.
Otherwise you don't need tools to dissemble the body of dt swiss so I'm not worried about that.
I’d suspect the frame, but off the top of my head I can’t think of why the frame would be chewing up drive mechanics of the hub. Pics of the carnage?
spitballing...maybe the stays are flexing differently, putting uneven stress on each side of the axle? check for cracks in frame? or rear triangle out of alignment?
Is the axle running out of threads and not actually clamping?
Frame alignment could be an issue.
Chain too short and acting as a hard stop?
Brake dropout side of the maxle is a little loose fitting. Basically the ID of the dropout is larger than a transitional fit and without a wheel clamped I can 'rattle' the brake dropout side. The amount of movement is perceptible so I'd guess there's a few thousandths clearance.
Also the hole in the dropout side for the maxle no longer constrains the thru axle axial to the mating threads on the opposite dropout. When slotting my axle without a wheel I can rock the axle so the the male threads miss the threaded dropout hole by 1/4 " maybe more.
This certainly is not good I don't think, and if there was uneven frame flex, could be even more of an issue. Still trying to wrap my head around how/if this would manifest in hub failures.
Also the hole in the dropout side for the maxle no longer constrains the thru axle axial to the mating threads on the opposite dropout. When slotting my axle without a wheel I can rock the axle so the the male threads miss the threaded dropout hole by 1/4 " maybe more.
This certainly is not good I don't think, and if there was uneven frame flex, could be even more of an issue. Still trying to wrap my head around how/if this would manifest in hub failures.
That would just rip the derailuer off and probably not hurt the hub
Some drivetrain geometries will allow you to straightline the lower chain without bottoming out derailleur travel. I know, I have done it and trashed a King hub in the process. But I was 25 miles from civilization and had little choice other than to shorten my chain. Derailleur survived. King was nice enough to repair for free despite not being a warranty failure.
Oh yeah you are right.....
I can see it now.
my uneducated wild ass guesses ...
a bad ratchet spring or too much grease preventing the halves from full meshing under load.
a bad ratchet spring or too much grease preventing the halves from full meshing under load.
I'm kind of wondering the same. There was quite a bit of grease upon disassembly and inspection and the ratchet springs also seemed to be very light. Wondering if the other 'things' may be red hearings and I just got super unlucky???
Hoping at least to start that I can just get a new ratchet set for warranty. Would blow to have to send a new hub back after just building it to a wheel....
Hoping at least to start that I can just get a new ratchet set for warranty. Would blow to have to send a new hub back after just building it to a wheel....
I dunno. Doesn’t look like too much grease to me. Shredding teeth on one side and not all around suggests misalignment like so: /| ... I’d check the grease and make sure it’s assembled correctly... but have a very good look at your axle/frame interface. I’d take the air out of your shock and cycle everything. The fact that this is the 4th hub on the bike and this one had problems within hours suggests something is awry.
^That would sorta be my guess, but I’m still scratching my head as to how exactly it’s happening. The hub has an axle all the way through it, that should keep the free hub body concentric to the hub shell, and prevent the /| situation right?
Supposedly with the fat-bike long-axles and hub-shells that don't do much to address the higher flex of the wider hub, under some high torque situations with the hub flex you can get partial engagement with the DT style ratchets and mess up the teeth badly, especially if you are running more than the "standard" 18T, because the more T you have, the less material there is behind them and when there's partial engagement due to flex, it's the very tip of one of the teeth that engages and tends to chunk off.
Too late for that set, but next time stretch those springs out a little bit before installing the rachet rings. Helps to make sure they engage at all times, and makes the hub sound more like a Chris King.
That, and lots of light weight (non sticky) grease is the secret to DT Swiss longevity! Been doing that to mine and anyone else's I have run across for the past 15 years, no more stripped ratchets even with 200lb plus fatties cranking on them.
PS, if you need 18t ratchets I have 10+ sets of brand new ones that were upgraded to 36t or 72t...send me $10 and I'll throw them in the mail.
PM sent
It's odd, the grease that DT Swiss provides seems a little tacky and damn do those springs seem to ever so lightly move move those ratchets. Both suggestions make a ton of sense to me.
All this about maintenance of a DT hub is great. But massively skeptical it is the problem. Just FWIW.
It sounds like your axel isn’t clamping tightly, and the play is making the hub skip, causing the damage.
It sounds like your axel isn’t clamping tightly, and the play is making the hub skip, causing the damage.
I fed my last dt set hadley hub oil
They didn't mind
They didn't mind
i use the PTFE lube from hadley on my i9's. they are much more quiet with it. also gives an indicator as to when they need service, as they start to get loud again.
I used gear oil in my King hubs (king approved).
Reduced noise and service became simple oil change. I suspect that with other hubs you would just have a puddle of oil under your bike.
Reduced noise and service became simple oil change. I suspect that with other hubs you would just have a puddle of oil under your bike.
I agree, I think there may be something else at play here. But I'm not identifying anything aside from a weeee bit of looseness from the brake-side dropout hole. The axle is certainly getting tight. My cassette lockring was a little loose, but I can't fathom how that would impact a ratchet system....
This whole quagmire has made me appreciate how much of a trash standard the Maxle system is....which shouldn't be a surprise because SRAM....at the very least there should be a washer between the bolt head and the dropout....
Through axles with pinch bolts for the win.