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Huge B.B. cup problem!

Brunettes

Monkey
Jul 27, 2005
421
0
East Coast
Ok here's the deal... my Truvativ bottom bracket cup (driveside) has broken off at the face. My LBS called Truvativ and their response was "we've never heard of such a thing happening, there isn't anything you can do". I don't beleive that at all, althought this is a big issue I can't imagine there isn't a way to remove it. I'm having a machinist check it out tomorrow but if any of you have ever had to deal with a problem like this let me know how you got it out WITHOUT damaging the frame. :p
 

stgil888

Monkey
Jun 16, 2004
484
0
Malibu, CA
It'd help a lot of you had pictures or a diagram, but I will try to imagine from your description. What I picture is that you tried to remove the driveside cup of your Truvativ BB and the notched flange that interfaces with the BB tool sheared off the body of the BB?

This sounds like a big problem, because it means that the BB is threaded into your frame's BB shell and the normal interface for removal has broken off.

Wait for a professiona opinion, but if this happened to me, I'd try to take as much off of the BB as possible. If you can knock the spindle out or remove anything unnecessary, it'd make it easier. If it's a suspension frame and you can get the rear triangle off, I'd do that to to make it easier to get at the BB. Once you have everything ready, are wearing proper protective gear, and have your frame masked to prevent damage, you could try to use a drill press to drill out the bearings (this'll be tough if the spindle can't come out). If you can put enough hurt on the BB using some drill bits and effort, you should be left with a BB unit that looks like swiss cheese. You might be able to fabricate a tool out of an old socket that fits the unique grooves of the BB unit to crank it out. Short of that, I don't know what to tell you.

Good luck
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,092
1,132
NC
Broke off at the face? You mean, the part with the splines that the tool sits in broke off?

That's bizarre. I'd see if you could possibly get a sharp piece wedged into the metal that's left and twist it out that way. You know what a compression rod is? Where it's got two pieces screwed together and you unscrew them to lengthen it and put pressure on the two walls?

See where I'm going with that? I don't know exactly how you could do it, though. Maybe take a walk down to the hardware store and look through the nuts and bolts section.

edit: D'oh, it's the drive side, sorry. Thought when you said "cup" that you meant the non-drive side cup.
 
J

JRB

Guest
I still don't get what happened, but like BV said, if you can get the spindle and the bearings out, you can use anything that will fill the hole to turn it out. Much like an EZ out. Worst case - you can file notches in the cup and use a piece of flat steel and a crescent wrench.
 

Brunettes

Monkey
Jul 27, 2005
421
0
East Coast
Yes where the tool sits is the piece that broke off BUT a took didn't break it, I just noticed it while riding. The cranks were creaking so I tried to tighten them but they were good.. I spun the cranks around and noticed a sound, looked and saw that the face of the cup was spinning so I took it to the shop (don't have a crank puller)
The only think we've came up with is somehow getting the Spindle out or somehow find something to tap the washer/seal away from the bearings and take it out piece by piece but Truvativ said that won't work.

I don't have pics because its at the shop but this is the best I can do to describe the situation at hand. BTW this is on my street/dj bike but I don't think anything I do could have caused this.

 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
just to clear things up.....can the spindle and everything else be removed leaving only the drive side cup in the BB shell? if so, i think i know how you can remove the cup....
 

Brunettes

Monkey
Jul 27, 2005
421
0
East Coast
Thats what Im trying to figure out..if we get the spindle out there shouldn't be that much of a problem (unless its super tight) but how does one get the spindle out?
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
im not sure how that BB is, but all i know is that all the isis BB's ive owned, both cups came completely off. so my guess is that you can just hammer out the spindle? i dont see why it wouldnt come out, unless the drive side cup is permanently attached to the BB.
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
norco-freerider said:
just to clear things up.....can the spindle and everything else be removed leaving only the drive side cup in the BB shell? if so, i think i know how you can remove the cup....
same here..

if you can take the bottom bracket body out and only leave the broken shell ,I can tell you a few (6-7 a tleast)diferent ways to take it out with out even special bike tools or anything fancy, actually since the shell has no load maybe is even "free" to move (not hand free) But pretty easy to stract, If the bottom braket still in, is a few ways to do but is a little more complicated..

Prove again the current generations of bike mecanics (at least at the shop you took the bike) are a Bunch of lamme^ss slakers, your problems is not even a challenge so don't worry.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
well if you can get the spindle out, heres one way you can get the drive side cup out......

get a nondrive side cup that does not have a flanged end (most race face bottom brackets have this) so that the non drive side cup can be inserted completely into the BB shell. due to this, and the fact that the thread pattern is different for the drive and non drive sides, when you keep threading the non drive side in, it will come into contact with the drive side cup, pushing it out.....

im pretty sure that would work, unless im getting my thread patterns mixed up and when tightening the non drive side cup it will actually tighten the drive side cup as well....
 

Zookster

Chimp
Jan 14, 2006
27
0
put your cranks back on and ride it. The crank rotation is the same way as you would unthread the BB. It might just slowly work it way loose enough for you to get a hold of it and finish screwing it out. I recomend putting back in the non drive side cup of course but i would not make it tight. Also dont ride it top hard, just ride it around for a while.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
Zookster said:
put your cranks back on and ride it. The crank rotation is the same way as you would unthread the BB. It might just slowly work it way loose enough for you to get a hold of it and finish screwing it out. I recomend putting back in the non drive side cup of course but i would not make it tight. Also dont ride it top hard, just ride it around for a while.

i highly doubt that would work....whens the last time your BB cups came loose?.....i dont think mine EVER have....
 

Zookster

Chimp
Jan 14, 2006
27
0
norco-freerider said:
i highly doubt that would work....whens the last time your BB cups came loose?.....i dont think mine EVER have....
They shouldnt come loose if the non drive side cup is tight, that is what the non drive side cup does. But if that cup is left loose, then it might work loose.

Hey its something to try and it wont cost a thing to try.

And as to your last post, you have your threads wrong. Both cups rotate the same direction to loosen or tighten. So you would only tighten the drive side cup more.
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
norco-freerider said:
i highly doubt that would work....whens the last time your BB cups came loose?.....i dont think mine EVER have....
current cartrige Bottom bracket don't come losse, because the drive train side cup is lock up againts the frame (BBshell) and on the none drive side the shell is lock up to the bottom bracket, with out that "counter Nut" they move quite freelly, in the old days with the losee bearing type BB, you did need a lock nut on the none drive side to hold the Bottom bracket to the proper tension and adjustments...

this days bikes are just to easy, they don't require skill anymore to get them running...
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
Zookster said:
put your cranks back on and ride it. The crank rotation is the same way as you would unthread the BB. It might just slowly work it way loose enough for you to get a hold of it and finish screwing it out. I recomend putting back in the non drive side cup of course but i would not make it tight. Also dont ride it top hard, just ride it around for a while.
that trick can damage the treads on the bottom bracket in a permanent way, for sure not recomend it.
 

Zookster

Chimp
Jan 14, 2006
27
0
patineto said:
that trick can damage the treads on the bottom bracket in a permanent way, for sure not recomend it.
you are not going to let it fall our or anything. Like I said no riding hard, just ride it around a little and see if it comes loose. It wont ruin your threads if you just let it come loose, and dont let it fall out.
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
norco-freerider said:
well if you can get the spindle out, heres one way you can get the drive side cup out......

get a nondrive side cup that does not have a flanged end (most race face bottom brackets have this) so that the non drive side cup can be inserted completely into the BB shell. due to this, and the fact that the thread pattern is different for the drive and non drive sides, when you keep threading the non drive side in, it will come into contact with the drive side cup, pushing it out.....

im pretty sure that would work, unless im getting my thread patterns mixed up and when tightening the non drive side cup it will actually tighten the drive side cup as well....
No, Nope, not even close, will lock the bottom bracket up if anything.....

actually I propose we make a Smartty pants mecanics contest and each person supply his best theory or theories to be judge by somebody like Dw and see who comes up with the best soluttion.

will be fun, what do you guys think...???
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
patineto said:
No, Nope, not even close, will lock the bottom bracket up if anything.....

actually I propose we make a Smartty pants mecanics contest and each person supply his best theory or theories to be judge by somebody like Dw and see who comes up with the best soluttion.

will be fun, what do you guys think...???
damnit, your right, now i feel stupid. (i didnt think that reversing the threads on one side will actually counter reverse when backing it out, making it the same thread pattern for both.) as an engineering student i feel ashamed at the moment...:dead:
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
Zookster said:
you are not going to let it fall our or anything. Like I said no riding hard, just ride it around a little and see if it comes loose. It wont ruin your threads if you just let it come loose, and dont let it fall out.
oviuslly the BB cups are not going to fall off since they are contain by the cranks...

the last thing you want in a tread (specially such a precise Pitch like the one on a bottom bracket)
is any kind of rocking motion, in fact any movement can damage the treads in no time..

beleive me i work on bikes for about 30 years (for fun mostlly) and I see more than one frame ruin do to this "Just go and ride it until it comes losee" aproach...
 

patineto

The RM Mad Scientist
Feb 19, 2002
935
0
berkeley, ca
norco-freerider said:
damnit, your right, now i feel stupid. (i didnt think that reversing the threads on one side will actually counter reverse when backing it out, making it the same thread pattern for both.)
actually reverse treads are very confusing so don't feel bad about it, if you think about the procedure you suggest is the same basic prinsiple that keep the cranks lock up with out the need for treadlock and really high torque values.....

as an engineering student i feel ashamed at the moment...:dead:
uPPS I quess you need to say bye bye to M.I.T.....:)



the first to learn is to accept your mistake, after that at least you can be on the way to solve them..
 

Zookster

Chimp
Jan 14, 2006
27
0
Well as from one professional bike mechanic to another mechanic I respect what you have to say, but you are taking this to the extreeme. I am talking a easy ride around your street. Keep an eye on it when it loosens a little your done. You will not ruin the threads at all. It will either come loose, or it wont.
 

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
patineto said:
uPPS I quess you need to say bye bye to M.I.T.....:)



the first to learn is to accept your mistake, after that at least you can be on the way to solve them..
hah, im currently enrolled at my second year at WPI, also known as the ghetto MIT :p

by the way patineto, i an highly intrigued by all your awesome threads with self designed and manufactured bike parts and components, keeps the wheels in my head spinning
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,225
20,003
Sleazattle
How about this for a last ditch effort. Remove non drive side cup. Weld the spindle to the BB body and then use the cranks to unthread the drive side.

??
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
I had an older race face squre in a friends bike that was put in backwards...drive cup in non drive side etc. The drive side ended up being a similar situation as yours as the threads were completely galled and no mater how much we turned the cup it would not unthread just spun round and found.

My solution...
1 remove non drive cup
2 tap out spindle from dive side (your bearing will most stay attached to the spindle) this may take more that a simple tap and will most likely toast your bearings.
3 take a hack saw blade w/o the handle and use it to score/cut the inside of the aluminum cup at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees around the cup. You want to saw through as much of the cups thickness as possible but STOP BEFORE YOU HIT ANY THREADS!
4 take a pair of vice grips and grab the lip of the cup at 90 and 270 degrees. Sqeeze gently and with any luck, the cup will colapse in upon itself and fall out of the frame. (this whole process took ~ 30 min w/o any damage to the frame.
5 get bb threads chased and instal new bb.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
davep said:
I had an older race face squre in a friends bike that was put in backwards...drive cup in non drive side etc. The drive side ended up being a similar situation as yours as the threads were completely galled and no mater how much we turned the cup it would not unthread just spun round and found.

My solution...
1 remove non drive cup
2 tap out spindle from dive side (your bearing will most stay attached to the spindle) this may take more that a simple tap and will most likely toast your bearings.
3 take a hack saw blade w/o the handle and use it to score/cut the inside of the aluminum cup at 0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees around the cup. You want to saw through as much of the cups thickness as possible but STOP BEFORE YOU HIT ANY THREADS!
4 take a pair of vice grips and grab the lip of the cup at 90 and 270 degrees. Sqeeze gently and with any luck, the cup will colapse in upon itself and fall out of the frame. (this whole process took ~ 30 min w/o any damage to the frame.
5 get bb threads chased and instal new bb.
I'm just coming into this thread and :stupid:
 

SilentJ

trail builder
Jun 17, 2002
1,312
0
Calgary AB
Brunettes said:
Ok here's the deal... my Truvativ bottom bracket cup (driveside) has broken off at the face......let me know how you got it out WITHOUT damaging the frame. :p
Do you have to get it out / other than the face being broken off, is the BB shot? Does the 'face' affect performance?

It just seems to me that unless the BB bearings are shot there isn't really a reason to remove the BB. :confused:
 
J

J5ive

Guest
Goodo. I've had this happen before, not a truvativ bb though. I just whacked the spindal and bearings out so just the cup was left. I then used an old Quil stem to wedge inside the cup, then unscrew.
 

-dustin

boring
Jun 10, 2002
7,155
1
austin
this happened to me today on a customer's bike. drive and non driveside. on top of that, there was rust everywhere. great repair.
 

Natedogg

Monkey
Jun 10, 2003
164
0
Mazzzzchappi
Here's a pic of mine...

Obviously I overtightened the cup too far against the non-drive cup and just sheared the flange right off... :mumble: Im soooo stooopid!
 

Attachments

kevster

Chimp
Apr 5, 2006
12
0
So.... the bikeshop couldn't figure that out? I was at first gonna that's why you avoid shops but now I see it as just another reason to find a good one and hope they never go away.
 

Slayer77

Chimp
Aug 9, 2006
6
0
Vancouver Island, B.C.
My cup hasnt sheared off but the "splines" for the tool are stripped!, worst part is I bought a new BB 6 months ago wanting to put it in because it was getting loose and crunchy, now its really loose... the cups are in there SO tight..