[Just Lookin'...]

'Normal' is a fallacy.

Married heterosexuals who don't reproduce are not 'normal' according to that definition.

Normal = reproduction is a highly simplistic concept, and people who use it as a condition for judgement of 'right or wrong' are only wasting other people's time.

It's a non-issue.

What about people who are attracted to blonds? They don't control that attraction, nor can they conclusively define it's origin. Yet, if they ask out a blond-haired individual they have 'chosen' to act on that attraction. If they only date brunetts, they've 'chosen' not to.

Choice = decision of action
Attraction = involuntary interest.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

I've heard similar arguments about homosexuality when it is compared to alcoholism. Alcoholism is a behavior pattern with a genetic predisposition. It is found in nature (monkey populations). Homosexuality is also found in nature, and many believe it is genetic and gay individuals are "born that way".

One lifestyle is perceived as being a problem by society, the other isn't as much. Since being gay is not harmful to people surrounding the individual like alcoholism (drunk driving, violence, etc) why is it such a concern?

yup, homosexuality is of no-concern for outsider like US. but isnt this a political debate forum on the internet in which people argue for the sake of it? for whatever worth reason they can find????

but still, i think, that for gay people themselves, being gay is more of a hassle than being hetero, given current society.

If I was gay, i would try to fix the chemical inbalance within instead of changing the world. its way easier.
I mean, one is an easier way to happiness IMO....

and like burlysurly said, everybody is dodging the ball on the meat of the arguments....

 

[MikeD]

I dunno. Isn't this about as stupid as whether a taste for vanilla ice cream is genetically patterned instead of a taste for chocolate ice cream? There's probably a lot of science that could go into finding out for sure, but shouldn't we focus on curing cancer first?

The only major 'issue' of it is personal morality (I don't like to think about or watch people publically eat vanilla ice cream!), which, in a conservative society that values individual rights and seeks to lessen society's control on the individual, shouldn't be too much of a big deal. Why the hell does everyone (both straight and gay) want to make such a public issue out of it?

I guess the current marriage issue on the table is the current problem...but there's a huge imperitive to legislate a morality in our society aside from that. I guess a lot of gay people want to 'normalize' themselves into society...but you can't really legislate that, either. Governmentally approving the term 'marriage' for gays, I suppose, would make people see it as societal endorsement of the practice.

Looks like it'll just be an evolution...gays will get to be 'partners' with full marriage benefits legally and financially, and soon enough, they'll just call themselves married and the term partner will just fall away as it's de facto marriage regardless of the terminology.

MD

Edit: The science portion of the question IS interesting as it falls under the umbrella of behavioral science and not morality; it's very true and shouldn't be trivialized. I just don't think it has relevance to the political argument, unless you want to set up gov't 'conversion camps' for gays. (Hey, wait...how would they try to convert them? If it involved porn stars and being forced to have sex with women, I might just thighn right up!)

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Here's a thought - why is it boys seem so obsessively fascinated with proving homosexuality is one way or another, but girls tend to not worry about it so much?

Perhaps it's because men are, in general, less secure in their sexuality and are afraid that it might just be a "condition" that affects them? After all - some of the most homosexual men I've known are the very ones who most loudly proclaimed their heterosexuality with an almost obsessive desire to prove to the world they were hetero.

Women...on the other hand....seem, in general, far more comfortable and less put off by the idea that two women can get each other off and enjoy it.



Maybe if more girls were turned on by guy on guy sex the idea of it would become more mainstream, and y'all would start loving one another in order to please your woman

 

[MikeD]

Women...on the other hand....seem, in general, far more comfortable and less put off by the idea that two women can get each other off and enjoy it.

No, most men are pretty comfortable with that, too...

 

[Jesus]

Well I'm wondering if religion is a condition that can be cured. Seriously.

Doubt it.

If you believe in that crap, you ain't to bright to begin with, so there isn't much chance of someone suddenly becoming more intelligent.

But, if they study they're religion with an open mind, and look at it logically, then there might be a chance they would "come around".

 

[BurlyShirley]

Here's a thought - why is it boys seem so obsessively fascinated with proving homosexuality is one way or another, but girls tend to not worry about it so much?

I think men are just smarter. :devil:

 

[Jesus]

I believe that it is a choice, brought on by childhood happenings. Such as being raped or over bearing mother, etc...

And it can be treated just like most other mental disorders. There is a group therapy session in Louisville to help gays, so I am sure there are others in this country.

But just like being bi-polar, it is a choice on wether to try and fix it or not.

 

[Just Lookin'...]

While i could find two women kissing to be erotic, and the opposite true of two men doing the same, the question is still:

Choice of Behavior vs 'Chemical Imbalance'

Homosexuality is not a 'chemical imbalance' that ANY CURRENT SCIENTIFIC METHOD KNOWN can prove.

But, current sci-meth CAN prove bi-polar and schizophrenic behavior root causes linked to chemical and physiological variants...

So, back to the original question:

Alexis - Most of the gays i know (couple of cousins, ex-roomate, etc) do NOT define their lifestyle as a CHOICE, but rather the PUBLIC AKNOWLEGEMENT OF IT as a 'choice' - as opposed to being 'in the closet.'

You state that you have been diagnosed as 'bi-polar' - ditto me (manic-depressive).

Accepting the 'label' and the 'treatment' or NOT is a Choice. Being LABLED by others is NOT a choice - it's an EFFECT.

Does that answer your question?

And back to the 'acceptability of boy-boy-kissing' vs the current acceptability of 'girl-girl-kissing' - guys seem to be more readily excited by casual expression of surface sexuality, but as a guy - i don't get quite the thrill seeing las chiquitas smooching as some other guys do - I don't like to compete with women for women - they cheat!

 

[ridecruz88]

i like your points. im not homophobic or anything, but i honestly dont like gays. they're ****in with all our system...i mean they dont need to get married, wtf are they gonna do, have kids? and all there rainbow pride marches and ****, it just doesnt strike me as something ill support

 

[ridecruz88]

o and another point....If homosexuality is a CONDITION than why is it all of the sudden the numbers are growing since lets say the last 20 years. this worlds going crazyyy

 

[MikeD]

Well, maybe it's because you don't get a baseball bat to the head quite so often if you actually admit to it these days...

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

While i could find two women kissing to be erotic, and the opposite true of two men doing the same, the question is still:

Choice of Behavior vs 'Chemical Imbalance'

Homosexuality is not a 'chemical imbalance' that ANY CURRENT SCIENTIFIC METHOD KNOWN can prove.

But, current sci-meth CAN prove bi-polar and schizophrenic behavior root causes linked to chemical and physiological variants...

So, back to the original question:

Alexis - Most of the gays i know (couple of cousins, ex-roomate, etc) do NOT define their lifestyle as a CHOICE, but rather the PUBLIC AKNOWLEGEMENT OF IT as a 'choice' - as opposed to being 'in the closet.'

You state that you have been diagnosed as 'bi-polar' - ditto me (manic-depressive).

Accepting the 'label' and the 'treatment' or NOT is a Choice. Being LABLED by others is NOT a choice - it's an EFFECT.

Does that answer your question?

And back to the 'acceptability of boy-boy-kissing' vs the current acceptability of 'girl-girl-kissing' - guys seem to be more readily excited by casual expression of surface sexuality, but as a guy - i don't get quite the thrill seeing las chiquitas smooching as some other guys do - I don't like to compete with women for women - they cheat!

alright, good points.
so if homosexuality has not hormonal, nor biochemical roots (even though i think EVERY possible human behaviour MUST hava a neurological-physiological explanaition).

how do you explain it being not a choice, but some sort of innate condition on some people??? where else does it come from???

is it in most cases an acquired behavior???

if its acquired behavior, cool with me!. in fact, that is what i believe more likely. and i got no problems if gay dudes would say, well am gay because i get turned on by other guys.

not because i´m a woman on the body of a man (wrong body for my right mind-sex), which could also be said, i have the wrong mind-sex for the right body.

dont you think its easier to change the mind on gay dudes (by whatever means possible), rather than castrate them and poking them a hole in the crotch????
i mean, i believe there will be a point in which medicine will have the ability to modify human behaviour much deeper than current psychotropics.

if its not a choice, then gay people are prisoners within their own bodies which makes them do gay stuff, rather than humping opposite sex people.

but the idea of homosexuality not being by choice, and not having any biochemical root is IMO mutually exclusive.

 

[Changleen]

Well I'm wondering if religion is a condition that can be cured. Seriously.

 

[Changleen]

Hey Alexis - have you ever seen this:
http://www.bipolarrecovery.com/

 

[Skookum]

Wow too much to read i'll just pick on the lately moody easy target again...

Explain 'Function Normally' because to me, the point of sex by law of nature is reproduction. How are homosexuals functioning normally?

Why do people use birth control then.
Why would someone want to be with someone who is barren?
Why does a woman still remain with someone or just knock booties with someone after menopause?
Why do some men like to tap their woman in the poop chute?
Can all these people still not live normal lives?

i was watching a show on these lizards who have adapted in what we would deem abnormal. They are a breed where there is no such thing as a male, and the females have adapted to have the capability of enseminating themselves.
The went on to explain how the difference between gender is determined by gool ole fashuned chromosomes. Women have XX men have Xy. Well the weird thing about the y chromosome is that it's increasingly shrinking. So much over the course of thousands of year it will dissapear altogether. When that happens essentially men will cease to exist.
i have seen the future brothers and sisters and i foresee Lesbians will RULE the world!!!!!

 

[bomberz1qr20]

Man, all this homophobia is totally ghey.

 

[MikeD]

i have seen the future brothers and sisters and i foresee Lesbians will RULE the world!!!!!

You'll be sorely surprised when you're awakened from cryogenic sleep by a bunch of metrosexuals.

MD

 

[Ciaran]

Maybe turn this around, why do we view bipolar as something that needs to be treated? Why not just let folks be? I have a pretty good friend from high school that is bipolar and sometime ago he decided that his meds were ruining his life. As Alexis put it he has subsequently decided to ride his life. As a result he swings around like a wind chime in a tornado. Falling into deep depression, suffering from mania quite a bit and to a very few admittedly psychotic episodes (no lie his toaster talks to him if he gets rid of it the blender talks to him..... he likes his toaster better). However, he says he feels better than when he was "treated" as he is able to enjoy the "normal" times of his life. As time as passed I think that he has trained himself to better deal with who he is.

Bi Polar needs to be treated because some people do things while swinging that can land them in jail, the hospital, or dead. If you choose to not take your meds that's your decision, but don't forget about the people around you and how you treat them. Odds are, you are not a joy to be around when you are swinging... I know I wasn't. And I have a VERY low level form of Bi-polar. However I do understand not wanting to take the meds... Mine made me fat, and my hair became so brittle that it was breaking off. Not to mention that I HATE being tied to any medication. Hell, I don't even take asperin or motrin or advil, etc. I freaking hated the meds and the associated blood work.

If your friend's appliances are talking to him, then he probably has more than just bi-polar disorder. Voices and hallucinations are hallmarks of schitzophrenia. I guess as long as the toaster doesn't tell him to kill anyone we are alright though.

This is a tough issue, and I think that some good questions are being raised and interisting opinions are being givin. I am no expert, and can only coment from my personal experience, but my life improved tremendously after getting on meds. So much so that my doc eventually weaned me off of them. (Very long story and very difficult. I have to be extremely vigilant about things) I just hope that everyone who needfs help has an oppertunity to get it.

As for the gay thing, well, I have a few gay friends and they all say the same thing... that they were born that way. The most interisting one to watch is my transsexual friend. Now that's a life I woudl NEVER ever want to live.

Sorry if I am rehashing point others have already stated but man, I did not want to have to read through all 7 pages of this thread before I broke out the soap box.

 

[Just Lookin'...]

alright, good points.
so if homosexuality has not hormonal, nor biochemical roots (even though i think EVERY possible human behaviour MUST hava a neurological-physiological explanaition).

JL: If we're going to talk electro-chemical synaptic discharges as the root of everything, and that every thought, action and behavior is sourced soley on that, this thread is over - it's too close to quark-thinking, which is like looking at a tree with an electron microcope - you can't tell what it looks like.

how do you explain it being not a choice, but some sort of innate condition on some people??? where else does it come from???

JL: BEING homosexual is not a choice. ACTING on it IS.

A different example - I find women of color (black, asian, etc) far more attractive than pale caucasian females. I know this to be true because of the many years i have lived and many interactions with women i have had. This is not a 'choice' - it's just what my senses tell my brain to do. Now, ASKING the girl out on a date is a CHOICE - just as not asking a white woman out is a CHOICE. Being rejected or going out for dinner is an EFFECT. Being sneered at by a racist during the dessert course is an EFFECT.

is it in most cases an acquired behavior???

JL: I don't think so. However, bisexual people may gravitate away from one or the other sexual extremes (hertero vs. homo) because of acquired experiences (rape, abuse, etc)

if its acquired behavior, cool with me!. in fact, that is what i believe more likely. and i got no problems if gay dudes would say, well am gay because i get turned on by other guys.

not because i´m a woman on the body of a man (wrong body for my right mind-sex), which could also be said, i have the wrong mind-sex for the right body.

JL: Don't get transgender/intersexual dysphoria confused with sexual preferences - although that can confuse the issue, it's actually considered a separate situation

dont you think its easier to change the mind on gay dudes (by whatever means possible), rather than castrate them and poking them a hole in the crotch????
i mean, i believe there will be a point in which medicine will have the ability to modify human behaviour much deeper than current psychotropics.

See above

if its not a choice, then gay people are prisoners within their own bodies which makes them do gay stuff, rather than humping opposite sex people.

JL: A gay male who likes being a man is not trapped in his body any more or less than you and i (and everybody else) are. Neither of my lesbian cousins want to be male (although they would like to be as 'wealthy' as some men they know - duh, so would I)

but the idea of homosexuality not being by choice, and not having any biochemical root is IMO mutually exclusive.

See Top

 

[Skookum]

sorely surprised
MD

You should refrain from posting your freaky fantasies on here pal....
Did you know that there are gay monkeys. i'm sure in 500,000 years i'm sure they'll be critisizing other monkies who don't like to do each other in the butt.
http://www.monkeyland.co.za/monkeybusiness.htm

Haha i was lookin up dolphins because i know they are sexual freaks too and stumbled across this tasty morsel.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/02/07/MNG3N4RAV41.DTL

haha Gay Penguins!!!!

 

[Toshi]

Explain 'Function Normally' because to me, the point of sex by law of nature is reproduction. How are homosexuals functioning normally?

are blowjobs unnatural? mighty hard to get a girl pregnant that way, altho i guess where there's a will there's a way...

why is the choice of staying gay considered a choice made in the right chemical balance, while according to gays themselves (they do not choose to be gay in the 1st place), it isnt????

everything in the body can be reduced to the chemical or electrical level. not all differences in chemical or electrical activity are considered abnormal. furthermore, many actions of the body are involuntary, and sexual arousal is one of these things. to be specific in the case of the male: erection is largely governed by the parasympathetic nervous system, emission by the sympathetic, ejaculation by the sympathetic with limited somatic [voluntary] control of the sphincters involved.

 

[Silver]

to be specific in the case of the male: erection is largely governed by the parasympathetic nervous system, emission by the sympathetic, ejaculation by the sympathetic with limited somatic [voluntary] control of the sphincters involved.

I prefer the technical term, "Blowing a load." Geez, does everthing need to be complicated?

 

[zod]

There's something queer about this thread but I can't put my finger on it...... neaky:

 

[Ciaran]

Can't believe I missed this...

lol. like I say, i know very little about homosexuality so i´ve been wondering abuot that lately and figuring out things myself....

Really? I don't think we need to see the pix of you "figuring things out". But I commend you for being bold enough to do "research".

Sorry, I had to.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Can't believe I missed this...




Really? I don't think we need to see the pix of you "figuring things out". But I commend you for being bold enough to do "research".

Sorry, I had to.

haha, of course "figuring things out myself" means, reading about it in the wikipedia and deciding which way i wanna shoot.

 

[Serial Midget]

but being 100% homo, kinda impairs your ability to breed, thus by a darwinism standard, and the definition of a biological success, is a failure.....

Why should gays reproduce at all? Straight people are already producing plenty of homosexuals - :devil:

 

[MikeD]

There's something queer about this thread but I can't put my finger on it...... neaky:

I think what your finger is looking for is the 'prostate.'
MD