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I always knew Dogs were smarter

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
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Charlotte, NC
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-610dogtalk,0,7312855.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
Researcher says dogs understand what we say



By RANDOLPH E. SCHMID
Associated Press

June 10, 2004, 10:00 AM EDT

WASHINGTON -- As many a dog owner will attest, our furry friends are listening. Now, for the doubters, there is scientific proof they understand much of what they hear.

German researchers have found a border collie named Rico who understands more than 200 words and can learn new ones as quickly as many children.

Patti Strand, an American Kennel Club board member, called the report "good news for those of us who talk to our dogs."

"Like parents of toddlers, we learned long ago the importance of spelling key words like bath, pill or vet when speaking in front of our dogs," Strand said. "Thanks to the researchers who've proven that people who talk to their dogs are cutting-edge communicators, not just a bunch of eccentrics."

The researchers found that Rico knows the names of dozens of play toys and can find the one called for by his owner. That is a vocabulary size about the same as apes, dolphins and parrots trained to understand words, the researchers say.

Rico can even take the next step, figuring out what a new word means.

The researchers put several known toys in a room along with one that Rico had not seen before. From a different room, Rico's owner asked him to fetch a toy, using a name for the toy the dog had never heard.

The border collie, a breed known primarily for its herding ability, was able to go to the room with the toys and, seven times out of 10, bring back the one he had not seen before. The dog seemingly understood that because he knew the names of all the other toys, the new one must be the one with the unfamiliar name.

"Apparently he was able to link the novel word to the novel item based on exclusion learning, either because he knew that the familiar items already had names or because they were not novel," said the researchers, led by Julia Fischer of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig.

A month later, he still remembered the name of that new toy three out of six times, even without having seen it since that first test. That is a rate the scientists said was equivalent to that of a 3-year-old.

Rico's learning ability may indicate that some parts of speech comprehension developed separately from human speech, the scientists said.

"You don't have to be able to talk to understand a lot," Fischer said. The team noted that dogs have evolved with humans and have been selected for their ability to respond to the communications of people.

Katrina Kelner, Science's deputy editor for life sciences, said "such fast, one-trial learning in dogs is remarkable. This ability suggests that the brain structures that support this kind of learning are not unique to humans and may have formed the evolutionary basis of some of the advanced language abilities of humans."

Perhaps, although Paul Bloom of Yale University urges caution.

"Children can understand words used in a range of contexts. Rico's understanding is manifested in his fetching behavior," Bloom writes in a commentary, also in Science.

Bloom calls for further experiments to answer several questions: Can Rico learn a word for something other than a small object to be fetched? Can he display knowledge of a word in some way other than fetching? Can he follow an instruction not to fetch something?

Fischer and her colleagues are still working with Rico to see if he can understand requests to put toys in boxes or to bring them to certain people. Rico was born in December 1994 and lives with his owners. He was tested at home.

Funding for this research was provided in part by the German Research Foundation.

* __

On the Net:

Science: http://www.sciencemag.org

German Research Foundation: http://www.dfg.de/en/index.html

Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology: http://www.eva.mpg.de
Copyright © 2004, South Florida Sun-Sentinel
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,775
14,142
In a van.... down by the river
What the article doesn't say is that researchers tried that crap on cats, and despite the fact that the cats apparently *knew* what the researchers were saying, the cats ignored them. :D

Which leaves us back at the question....... are the cats smarter?

-S.S.-
 

KFulch

Chimp
Jul 10, 2002
89
0
NC
I think cats taste much better than...what was the question? Dogs rule. End of discussion :devil:
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
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Lynnwood, WA
I knew 2 german shepards that knew what Cat and Kitty mean. :D They would start whining and searching for the little cat when the owners mentioned it.

It also knew what cat spelled out meant. C-A-T ........commence whining and searching. :)

I rather enjoyed watching them perform. :D
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
8,731
from the "perspective" at sciencemag http://www.sciencemag.org/feature/data/bloom.pdf

A more skeptical alternative is that
Rico’s abilities have nothing to do with human
word learning. For a child, words are
symbols that refer to categories and individuals
in the external world (7). Even oneyear-
olds appreciate the referential nature
of words. When children learn a word such
as “sock,” they do not interpret it as “bringthe-
sock” or “go-to-the-sock,” and they do
not merely associate it with socks. They
appreciate that the word refers to a category,
and thereby can be used to request a
sock, or point out a sock, or comment on
the absence of one.

[...]

Rico’s abilities are fascinating,
but until we have answers to these
sorts of questions, it is too early to give up
on the view that babies learn words and
dogs do not.
until more evidence is presented (especially of the dog learning/responding to users other than his owner), i call bs, as does the "perspective" author above.
 

MudGrrl

AAAAH! Monkeys stole my math!
Mar 4, 2004
3,123
0
Boston....outside of it....
I have a border collie. This is her list of words that she understands:

In
Out
Walk
leash
Up
Back
Sit
down
paw
shake
treat
cheese
Daddy
Mommy
Ball
Kitty
Bear
Scooby
Marley
Kibbles
Sippies
Car
phuck
Goddamnit


Every single one of these words produces a behavior in our dog. The las two usually send them running under the table (we don't hurt them, they just know when we are pissed off).

My dog has also learned how we spell certain words (Car, treat, walk, leash)...and she understands that also.

If I lay out 3 toys, ball, kitty and scooby.... I can tell her which one to get and she gets the correct one.

She also plays frisbee, fetch (you knew that), and hide and seek. Her flyball classes start in 2 weeks.

No, there may not be a direct connection between dogs and humans in the areas of speech.... but dogs do understand what we are saying.

Yes, other people have been around my dogs and have gotten the same responses.
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
8,731
MudGrrl said:
No, there may not be a direct connection between dogs and humans in the areas of speech.... but dogs do understand what we are saying.
they respond to commands, yes. pavlov's slobbering dogs != language or understanding.
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,428
0
Charlotte, NC
Toshi said:
they respond to commands, yes. pavlov's slobbering dogs != language or understanding.

Yep and they respond to so much more. Body language, tone of voice and who knows what else they pick up on but they communicate and respond to all kinds of stuff.

Bottom line they rock. :)
 

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
67,775
14,142
In a van.... down by the river
I agree. Dogs are great. But so are cats. Any animal that can show affection & provide companionship & comfort is all right by me. :thumb:

And although I love dogs (most of 'em) I still am pretty sure cats are smarter. ;)

-S.S.-
 

dh girlie

MISS MISSY (geek)
SkaredShtles said:
What the article doesn't say is that researchers tried that crap on cats, and despite the fact that the cats apparently *knew* what the researchers were saying, the cats ignored them. :D

Which leaves us back at the question....... are the cats smarter?

-S.S.-
Yes...and much more dignified...like that old adage goes...Dogs have masters...cats have staff....
 

dh girlie

MISS MISSY (geek)
SkaredShtles said:
I agree. Dogs are great. But so are cats. Any animal that can show affection & provide companionship & comfort is all right by me. :thumb:

And although I love dogs (most of 'em) I still am pretty sure cats are smarter. ;)

-S.S.-
I'm with you on this...I would love to have a little pug or chiuaua but I'm not home enough, AND I have my princess that I've had for 16 years and she hates dogs...she's been such a great pet I don't wanna upset her in her golden years by bringing in some smelly sloppy noisy dog. I love dogs though...but I love cats more...
 

dh girlie

MISS MISSY (geek)
MudGrrl said:
I have a border collie. This is her list of words that she understands:

In
Out
Walk
leash
Up
Back
Sit
down
paw
shake
treat
cheese
Daddy
Mommy
Ball
Kitty
Bear
Scooby
Marley
Kibbles
Sippies
Car
phuck
Goddamnit


Every single one of these words produces a behavior in our dog. The las two usually send them running under the table (we don't hurt them, they just know when we are pissed off).

My dog has also learned how we spell certain words (Car, treat, walk, leash)...and she understands that also.

If I lay out 3 toys, ball, kitty and scooby.... I can tell her which one to get and she gets the correct one.

She also plays frisbee, fetch (you knew that), and hide and seek. Her flyball classes start in 2 weeks.

No, there may not be a direct connection between dogs and humans in the areas of speech.... but dogs do understand what we are saying.

Yes, other people have been around my dogs and have gotten the same responses.
Awww...border collies are sooo cute...I love watching them on that agility competition they show on animal planet where they run the par course and they go through those poles kinda zigzagging...and the labs when they do that long jump into the pool...that is hysterical...you should post a picture of your border collie...
 

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
8,731
MudGrrl said:
you have a cat, don't you? :)
actually, yes. :D hehe. well, sort of. mine is gone, but my sister's old cat still is hanging out at my parents' house.

but my real objection comes from having taken a course last year ("knowledge of language") that had a segment that examined past claims of animals understanding language. the verdict was not favorable -- exaggeration, unrepeatability, and outright fraud were all present in the cases...
 

MudGrrl

AAAAH! Monkeys stole my math!
Mar 4, 2004
3,123
0
Boston....outside of it....
Toshi,
You're pissing in my cheerios!!! :p :D

I get all excited that there's 'evidence' that my dog actually understands me, and maybe we will have intellectual conversations sometime later...
discuss Kafka, the Birth of Venus...


maybe?

anyway, here's pics of my girls...Sasha (Lassie Collie) and Beans (who likes to chase us with abnormally large sticks- I don't know what's wrong with that dog)...
 

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Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
39,713
8,731
MudGrrl said:
Toshi,
You're pissing in my cheerios!!! :p :D

I get all excited that there's 'evidence' that my dog actually understands me, and maybe we will have intellectual conversations sometime later...
discuss Kafka, the Birth of Venus...
ahha, sorry. :D what is this "birth of venus"? a book?