[Steve M]

So the Banshee finally arrived!
More or less built, obviously not quite at a rideable state in the pics... needs a rear spring (I have one in there at the moment but it's quite a bit too stiff) and the lines need to be cut down etc. Click the pics to enlarge.

​

Full spec list:
Frame: Banshee Legend #15, size large
Fork: TPC+ Boxxer
Rear shock: DHX5 (cheers Toodles for lending it to me) until the Cane Creek Double Barrel arrives
Rims: Mavic 823s
Hubs: Hope Pro IIs
Crankset: Shimano Saint M805 (old Saint)
Pedals: Straitlines
Chainguide: Gamut P40
Chainring: E13 37t
Headset: FSA Orbit R 1.5 zero stack
Stem: Sunline V1
Bars: FSA Gravity Lights cut to 750mm - these things are tanks weight wise but they feel really nice, so not getting rid of them
Brakes: Shimano Saint 4-pots on Hayes V8 rotors
Saddle: SDG I-Fly
Seatpost: SDG I-beam Micro
Derailleur: Shimano Saint with super short cage
Chain: XT/Ultegra
Cassette: XT 11-32, gonna give this the arse in favour of a customised setup. I like it for its weight and sexiness but the functionality isn't there for me.
Tyres: Minion DHFs 2.5 in SRY front and rear, non-UST, running Stans sealant

Also I owe thanks to a number of people for this:
- Jay and Keith at Banshee for putting me on the test program
- Keith at Banshee in particular for spending literally hours of his time discussing tech stuff with me and chasing stuff up
- Ken at XXIV for his hard work, persistence, excellent communication, patience and generally making every effort to do the right thing by me. It's worth noting that he did all this without making a CENT out of it because these frames were sold to us at "production cost" - 10 out of 10 for customer service.
- Jon @ GripSport for making the shock reducers for me
- Toodles for lending me a shock
- Squid for lending me a spring (if/when it gets here! )

Oh and for those who are interested:
Frame weight, no axle, no shock or hardware, size large with seatpost collar: 8.90lbs (4045g). Supposedly about the same as a medium Sunday.
Complete build weight, with steel spring on the rear: 41.68lbs (18.90kg). Not super lightweight, but there is plenty of opportunity to trim it down well under 40lbs without too much effort (Ti spring, WC leg for the Boxxer, lighter cranks/bars/pedals and even rims if you were that keen, brakes are pretty heavy too but completely worth it for the insane power).

Ride report when I get some real time on it!

 

[Udi]

did you get a free singlet and sunnies?

 

[Steve M]

did you get a free singlet and sunnies?

No, but I tilted my helmet visor right down and got some wrap-around shin-only armour if that helps

 

[worship_mud]

since when is maxxis doing slow reezay again??????

and how are the 4pot saints???

 

[Steve M]

Slow Reezaay has always been available here in Aus... think the rest of the world is getting stooged though. Literally 90% of DH tyres sold in Aus would be those things, virtually nobody uses anything else.

Haven't bedded the brakes in yet, but from the other sets of 4 pot Saints I've tried - f'ing sick. Tons of power and a nice lever feel.

 

[Acadian]

ahhh finally she is up and rolling! Sweet build Steve - let us know how she rides.

enjoy!

 

[Kntr]

Take off the Pacific Cycles sticker.

 

[venom600]

Very nice. I like.

 

[Zutroy]

Very nice build

 

[kidwoo]

Ah so it exists.


Looks nice.



Now hurry up and get busy.



And mail me some tires.

 

[Sgt.Retro]

Do you have a 'normal' maxle in your Boxxer?

How do that work ? Never seen that before!

And how the hell did you get such a short cage for the Saint derailleur?


Last but not least: nice build

 

[jvnixon]

Nice build Steve. Glad to see you got one even with the declining Australian $ conversion!

 

[sriracha]

holy crap! that machine work looks awesome!


nice rig!

 

[chicodude]

careful about the warranty

 

[Steve M]

Do you have a 'normal' maxle in your Boxxer?

How do that work ? Never seen that before!

And how the hell did you get such a short cage for the Saint derailleur?


Last but not least: nice build

Saints are available with the super short cages. And yeah it's a Maxle 360 or whatever they're called. Still annoys me but it's better than the Maxle DH, cos at least you can't strip this one out.

Nice build Steve. Glad to see you got one even with the declining Australian $ conversion!

Cheers mate! Fairly excited about it

careful about the warranty

Thanks for the elaborate explanation. I think I'll be right.

 

[Hack On Wheels]

Saints are available with the super short cages. And yeah it's a Maxle 360 or whatever they're called. Still annoys me but it's better than the Maxle DH, cos at least you can't strip this one out.

Was it easy enough to fit the Maxle 360 in there? I didn't realize you could do that; if I strip out another maxle (stupid design, imo) I would definitely want something different and that looks like it might be the only option.

 

[Steve M]

Was it easy enough to fit the Maxle 360 in there? I didn't realize you could do that; if I strip out another maxle (stupid design, imo) I would definitely want something different and that looks like it might be the only option.

Yep, goes in fine. The Maxle DHs are very prone to stripping IMO, I wrecked mine pretty quick and quite a few people I know have done the same.

 

[no skid marks]

How is this a better bike design wise, than the Sunday you idolized so much?
I'm keen to no what you think about the XTs, that's providing your not doing a lip service on them because they cut you a deal.

 

[dhkid]

he was on a sgs before. i think its udi you are thinking about who is on a sunday.

 

[Raingauge]

Looks awesome. Let us know how it rides.

 

[no skid marks]

he was on a sgs before. i think its udi you are thinking about who is on a sunday.

Yeah, he just used to beat the sunday drum, just curious to hear his thoughts.
I guess there may be no answer as it's simply due to cost or sizing though.
We all do things we don't perfectly agree with some times due to money, hell, once I bought a Toyota Kluger because I got 25%off.

 

[P.T.W]

Hey socket nice bike.Are those steel thread inserts in the lower link i see???

 

[Ian Collins]

those bikes looks sooooooo promising......you must be psyched....enjoy!

 

[Steve M]

How is this a better bike design wise, than the Sunday you idolized so much?
I'm keen to no what you think about the XTs, that's providing your not doing a lip service on them because they cut you a deal.

Who ever said it was or wasn't better than a Sunday? The geometry is reasonably similar, shock rate is supposed to be fairly similar, the axle path is a bit more rearwards, the frame has lower standover, is longer in the top tube/wheelbase and is supposed to be slightly lighter.... and the Aussie importer is actually helpful instead of completely useless. Once I get more ride time on it I'll get you more details. Got half a run today before my mate wrecked his shoulder, which is unfortunate.

XTs? The only XT stuff I'm running is a chain and cassette... did you mean the brakes?

Hey socket nice bike.Are those steel thread inserts in the lower link i see???

Yes they are, the front triangle has the same thing too. Pretty handy, makes pulling the shock out very quick and easy.

 

[big cal]

Got half a run today before my mate wrecked his shoulder, which is unfortunate.

damn dude, another ride cut short by bodily harm...

was that half a run fun or what?

 

[Steve M]

damn dude, another ride cut short by bodily harm...

was that half a run fun or what?

Was ok, brakes aren't even quite bedded in yet, but the bike felt pretty dodge for the simple reason that my tyres were about 5psi harder than I normally run them... and cos I was hungover as anything hahah. The geo felt pretty good though, cranking on the pedals gets you moving at a pretty serious rate, and the long front end felt sick to me. I think it needs an even softer spring than the 400 I have in there though.

 

[no skid marks]

Yeah brakes sorry.

 

[Jonny5]

nsm, lay off the drugs bro.

 

[Udi]

jonny - nooo maaan, don't give into the corporate machiine... it's aalll lies! you're just a conformist maan

 

[top_dog]

jonny - nooo maaan, don't give into the corporate machiine... it's aalll lies! you're just a conformist maan

 

[Jonny5]

haha. Good one.

 

[no skid marks]

You guys are playing with each others plungers a bit much.

 

[Jonny5]

Go ride your tandem.

 

[Steve M]

Ok, ride report after a few weeks on it.

First of all, this bike is long. No surprises there, it's a size large. The BB height I measured at about 14.37" with Boxxers sitting at 220mm of exposed stanchion (which I believe corresponds to 580mm A-C height), and the wheelbase is 47.1" (1197mm). The wheelbase is bang on the claimed length, though the BB is 0.37" higher than claimed, which by my calcs should drop to 14.20 if the fork is dropped to minimum height. The head angle is supposed to be 64 degrees, but the fact that the wheelbase is correct with a fork that's longer than the nominal values are measured with would indicate to me that the actual angle is steeper than claimed, and the way it feels I'd tend to agree that it's probably more like 66.

Anyway, on the track it feels pretty good, I felt comfortable on it pretty well straight away. It jumps nicely and seems to have good tracking and traction. The rear end is better than most things I've ridden when it comes to smashing and bashing (which if you've seen me ride, is pretty much all I do), it doesn't hang up easily (with either a DHX or a BOS). No funny business under brakes, it's pretty stable and whatnot, no ridiculous harshness or anything like that. However, while it's fairly planted and solid, I think it could benefit from a slacker head angle (if it was the advertised 64 degrees it should be sweet) and the BB, whilst reasonably low, can safely go a bit lower, I haven't clipped a pedal once (except with pedals level in which case it's more or less unrelated to BB height anyway) in 3 weeks of riding. It turns in to corners well, but I feel a slacker head angle would let me get over the front more and really hammer the turns harder. Also a slacker head angle would help a bit on the faster rough stuff - it's not bad now, probably on par with a Glory or similar, but slacker would be better for sure.

The fairly rearwards initial axle path also means that while its bump absorption is pretty good, it has more anti-squat than necessary (with a 37t ring anyway), and as a result with the 37t ring it extends the suspension slightly when you pedal. I can't feel any significant pedal kickback from pedaling it up kerbs or over other stuff, but if you lift the rear end of the bike and drop it the cranks spin backwards quite a bit, so there's obviously a fair amount of chain extension. Maybe I'm just not sensitive to that kind of stuff, or maybe that amount of chain extension isn't quite enough to be problematic anyway. Either way, the bike is designed around a 38-40t ring, which would reduce the amount of extension of the rear end you get (maybe to zero) under pedalling loads. It's something which I can notice on flat smooth surfaces (and particularly pedalling uphill) but haven't actually specifically noticed when pedaling on the trail. In either case, the amount of movement is fairly low and to me it feels like it gets off the mark pretty quick (possibly also cos the bike and particularly the wheels are a lot lighter than my old stuff). It's not perfect but it's better than most when it comes to pedaling.

As you'd imagine, the rear end is pretty stiff laterally, thanks to huge pivot axles and bushing setup. My frame was one of the first off the line and it has some fairly minor tolerancing issues with the pivots, which mean it has about 0.2mm (yes I measured) side to side play in the front lower pivot. It's a pre-production frame and Banshee are sorting this out for me at the moment so I feel kind of bad for mentioning it but if I didn't no doubt some Avalanche-loving nazi would accuse me of bias. At the very least, the pivot system is awesome, super easy to work with, and once the tolerances are sorted it'll be sweet.

More details once I've had a bit more time on it. One thing I am considering doing however, is shortening the shock to a 9.25x2.75 by means of an internal spacer, or using a shorter shaft or whatever, in order to drop the BB and slacken the head angle. At some stage I'll find an angle finder to tell me exactly what the head angle is too, just for reference's sake.

Oh yeah and I just mounted the CCDB. So far all I've worked out is that the tool CC give you to adjust it is cool, but the mounting hardware is a f**king pain to install, especially without the little plastic pin they say they give you that I didn't get. Will post up how it goes once I get it set up and stuff.

 

[buckoW]

Cool bike.

Do you notice any sluggishness when you want to pop out of a corner due to the rearward axle path?

Most every bike spins the pedals backwards when you drop it on the ground so I wouldn't worry about that. If you can't feel it in the pedals then it should be ok, no?

 

[Patan-DH]

I feel kind of bad for mentioning it but if I didn't no doubt some Avalanche-loving nazi would accuse me of bias.

 

[Steve M]

Cool bike.

Do you notice any sluggishness when you want to pop out of a corner due to the rearward axle path?

Most every bike spins the pedals backwards when you drop it on the ground so I wouldn't worry about that. If you can't feel it in the pedals then it should be ok, no?

No, not at all actually. It seems better in that regard than my old SGS which had a less rearwards axle path. I'd say probably more due to shock setup (not that I set it up significantly differently) and other riding geometry differences than anything to do with axle path.

As for the chain extension thing, yeah I know pretty well all bikes do it, the Banshee more than most though. What is interesting though is that after about halfway through the travel, the rate chain extension decreases dramatically (as in, to roughly zero by the time it bottoms out) which may explain why I'm not feeling it at the pedals when I pedal up something large like a curb. And yeah you're right, if I can't feel it, I don't care.

 

[Pslide]

Nice ride report socket.

Funny thing is that when you first posted the pics I thought to myself the head angle looked kinda steep for 64 deg. Figured it was just the photo...never easy to judge HA from a photo. See if you can get an actual measurement. I printed off a 90 degree increment protractor I found on the net and then use a plumb line to find absolute vertical and measure it that way. Still is not dead accurate, but probably good to +/- 1/2 deg.

I reckon the high BB may not only be making your HA steeper, but also influencing chain stretch because the virtual pivot (IC) will be higher up if the suspension is sitting higher. Try that 38T!

Sounds like that 9.25 shock might be just the thing, although that will probably put your BB around 13 7/8.

 

[Prettym1k3]

I never liked Banshee bikes... but I've seen two Legends in the past few weeks that really make me go "MMMMmmmmmm..."

 

[Kanye West]

I'm looking at your bike and Aarons side by side. His is for sure slacker. I'd get that shorter shock or top out spacer stat.