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I had an interesting conversation about doping

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
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A guy that I know races on a pro continental team and yesterday we were talking about cycling in general; the conversation turned to doping and he said that pretty much everyone in the pro peleton is dirty. He was saying for someone like Tyler Hamilton doping was the difference between making $60-70k on Postal as a domestique and making $500k+ as the leader of a team. He also said that in Europe its accepted that guys dope and the Americans are the only ones making a really big deal about. It was interesting to hear the perspective of someone who makes their living racing.
 

MtnbikeMike

Turbo Monkey
Mar 6, 2004
2,639
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The 909
A guy that I know races on a pro continental team and yesterday we were talking about cycling in general; the conversation turned to doping and he said that pretty much everyone in the pro peleton is dirty. He was saying for someone like Tyler Hamilton doping was the difference between making $60-70k on Postal as a domestique and making $500k+ as the leader of a team. He also said that in Europe its accepted that guys dope and the Americans are the only ones making a really big deal about. It was interesting to hear the perspective of someone who makes their living racing.
That's been my opinion of it recently. I remember someone saying that the difference between domestic racing and Europe is doping. Though, there are also guys getting popped in the domestic peloton. Makes me wonder how many are doing it over here.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
Not everyone dopes, for one thing its expensive. He makes around 30k a year and doesn't do it. He'll admit that physiologically he'll never be a grand tour contender, just a helper domestically, so there isn't much point. One other thing that he said, was that when Tyler tested positive the rumor floating through the peleton was that Lance paid the doctor to swap the bags of blood between Tyler and his teammate so Tyler would fail the test. Just a rumor, but scandalous if true
 

OGRipper

Turbo Monkey
Feb 3, 2004
9,765
192
NORCAL is the hizzle
I guess I don't really understand why, at this point, this seemed surprising to you or even particularly interesting. I mean yeah it's an insider's view so I guess that gives it some weight, but isn't it pretty common knowledge that doping has been widespread for years at the elite levels?

As for Americans being the only ones making a big deal out of it, well, good for us.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
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I guess I don't really understand why, at this point, this seemed surprising to you or even particularly interesting. I mean yeah it's an insider's view so I guess that gives it some weight, but isn't it pretty common knowledge that doping has been widespread for years at the elite levels?

As for Americans being the only ones making a big deal out of it, well, good for us.
I would agree with your assessment. I think what is interesting is the ending the blind eye that race organizers and team management have turned to doping.

I believe there have been plenty of positive tests which were ignored for the sake of continuity at the big races.

However, I think the biggest dopers is the Chinese Government. Unlike the thousands of dollars that Euro teams spend on doping, the Chinese are capable of spending millions on research, particularly in the area of non-detectable drugs.

I was chatting with one BMX racer, and mentioned the Chinese womens team was at Santa Clara recently, and they had crazy starts, pushing past a lot of the guys. The reason why I think this is doping not skill is after the first jump, these ladies would fall far behind.

However, power development sounds exactly like the forte of a Ministry of Sports Science.
 

Hougham

Monkey
Mar 28, 2007
375
1
The way it works on bike racing is a bit like drink driving. You can have a drink as long as you don’t go over amount in your system. Same with drugs and racing. There is no way you can 100% ban the drugs as most are naturally found in our system. They just set perimeters that us as racers have to be within. But the benefit you can see from upping even one of these restricted amount can be massive. So in essence the way the regulations are now they effectively make you have to dope to stay competitive.
 

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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The way it works on bike racing is a bit like drink driving. You can have a drink as long as you don’t go over amount in your system. Same with drugs and racing. There is no way you can 100% ban the drugs as most are naturally found in our system. They just set perimeters that us as racers have to be within. But the benefit you can see from upping even one of these restricted amount can be massive. So in essence the way the regulations are now they effectively make you have to dope to stay competitive.
You are talking about how to get away with driving drunk, as well as how to get away with doping.

There is no way to 100% ban doping because there is no test or system which can prevent 100% of doping. However, the goal has to be to stop 100% of doping (just like we want to stop 100% of drunken driving) because any less is cheating.

One thing your concept doesn't allow for is that doping (as well as drunken driving) is unsafe. Remember when Dr Ferrari said EPO is no more dangerous than OJ? This was after a rash of Belgium cyclists died from blood clots. Or when Tom Simpson died during the Tour from amphetamine use?

You might be able to have a few drinks and beat a DUI checkpoint. But your reaction time is slowed and there is a possibility that you drive into an emergency situation where you will wreck if you are not driving your best.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
I guess I don't really understand why, at this point, this seemed surprising to you or even particularly interesting. I mean yeah it's an insider's view so I guess that gives it some weight, but isn't it pretty common knowledge that doping has been widespread for years at the elite levels?

As for Americans being the only ones making a big deal out of it, well, good for us.
I know a lot of guys do it, but I didn't think it was as widespread as he made it out to be. He said most of the guys are doing a lot of testosterone to recovery at Grand Tours and even during training blocks to build fitness. I always had the feeling, but having someone from the pro ranks say stuff like that made it all too real
 

maddog17

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2008
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Methuen, Mass. U.S.A.
well that just goes to my point on how the sport might as well give in and let these guys do whatever the hell they want and just make that little * mark on the records, BD for Before Doping and AD for After Doping. no sense in the UCI and everyone else spending money and wasting time making new tests to try and detect the stuff. use the money and buy people in Africa mosquito nets, i've seen ad's on tv that says there's a shortage on mosquito nets to help Africans not contract malaria. i guess this means they're ok now with their food problems.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
I completely agree, I've always been for the abolishment of testing.....after all, sports really are just entertainment
 

The Toninator

Muffin
Jul 6, 2001
5,440
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High(ts) Htown
Not everyone dopes, for one thing its expensive. He makes around 30k a year and doesn't do it. He'll admit that physiologically he'll never be a grand tour contender, just a helper domestically, so there isn't much point. One other thing that he said, was that when Tyler tested positive the rumor floating through the peleton was that Lance paid the doctor to swap the bags of blood between Tyler and his teammate so Tyler would fail the test. Just a rumor, but scandalous if true
wasn’t tyler a blood doper? That would be way less expensive and more accessible than the 'drugs' like steroids, epo etc.
blood dope - the poor mans epo.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,199
4
wasn’t tyler a blood doper? That would be way less expensive and more accessible than the 'drugs' like steroids, epo etc.
blood dope - the poor mans epo.
Its not the drugs that are expensive, its the services of a doctor who can keep you from getting caught
 

sanjuro

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Sep 13, 2004
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I wonder if blood doping is so commonplace, a trainer, instead of a doctor, could do it?