i think my head is going to explode....He actually should have shot the guy.
Well, it's a little different than going in and blowing away the family pet in the middle of the night because you're worried that barking might penetrate your SWAT issued body armor, amirite?i think my head is going to explode....
Hey, I don't get a blowjob and a story in the paper for doing my job everyday.Most cops do it right all the time. The ones who dont make the headlines, and give Silver forum fodder...
To give you another idea of how ****ing stupid this thinking is, I should point out that most of BP's deepwater oil rigs have not exploded and led to huge oil spills.Most cops do it right all the time. The ones who dont make the headlines, and give Silver forum fodder...
Stay on point...you realize that most cops do the right thing, dont you? Its the idiots that make headlines. Do you think we should get rid of all law enforcement? Who will protect your right to be crabby all the time?To give you another idea of how ****ing stupid this thinking is, I should point out that most of BP's deepwater oil rigs have not exploded and led to huge oil spills.
Sounds retarded (satirical usage, Sarah!) doesn't it?
I have never advocated eliminating law enforcement.Stay on point...you realize that most cops do the right thing, dont you? Its the idiots that make headlines. Do you think we should get rid of all law enforcement? Who will protect your right to be crabby all the time?
My first post in this thread:Refer to my first post in this thread...
You serve an important function as the LE/BS metre, but you really come off as anti all LE, a cop hater. We tend to focus on the ones who do it wrong, abuse powers and such. But the fact is, for every one bad cop/exploding oil platform, there are many, many more that are doing it right, all the time. They, unfortunately, get little or no press coverage. I am quick to call out my fellow LEO types who stray, can you at least give credit to those who do it right? That is my point.
Yes, because when I think the police are out of line, I'm the last person to say anything......like you, of all Monkeys, were sincere? Please...
Depending on the situation (Had the suspect used the weapon or made further furtive movements towards removing the weapon from his waistband...) he could have shot him and the use of force would surely have been justified. I think the cop showed great restraint in not shooting, situational dynamics being considered, even though the jeans as part of the uniform are surely a crime against fashion...
You are missing the point.Refer to my first post in this thread...
You serve an important function as the LE/BS metre, but you really come off as anti all LE, a cop hater. We tend to focus on the ones who do it wrong, abuse powers and such. But the fact is, for every one bad cop/exploding oil platform, there are many, many more that are doing it right, all the time. They, unfortunately, get little or no press coverage. I am quick to call out my fellow LEO types who stray, can you at least give credit to those who do it right? That is my point.
You are missing the point.
No one here (as far as I can tell) is saying that all cops are bad, or that "LE" should be abolished.
What we are saying is that using paramilitary tactics against civilians for warrants involving nonviolent crimes is D-U-M-B dumb.
I guarantee that you have friends or family who use "illegal drugs" even if you have no knowledge of it. They may be in all other ways perfect citizens. Would you have a problem with cops breaking down their door and shooting there pets on the grounds of a drug warrant? I think so.
These police tactics are over used by macho SWAT types who get their rocks off going on armed "raids" where the potential for mistakes and violence is very high because of the methods they choose.
Tell me the reason these warrants can't be served in daylight without the use of force.
Further more, it seems that all these horrible mistakes are swept under the table by "LE" in order to protect their own.
True. Not all cops are bad.You are missing the point. I was simply jousting w/ Silver, as he is (rightly...)very vocal about LEOs who go wrong...and my issue (As a Law Enforcement type...) is simply that all Cops cannot be painted with the same brush.
Yes it is difficult to justify deploying a SWAT team against an unarmed family with two labs.The use of paramilitary tactics is simply preparing for worst case scenarios. Yes, sometimes these tactics go wrong, just as things in life often go horribly wrong. Every day there are hunderds, if not more, warrants and raids executed in theis country. Most go off without a hitch. The ones we hear about are the ones that fail somehow, and unfortunately those that do can result in the death of someone. My attempting to justify tactics to someone such as yourself who seems predisposed to hating cops ("Macho SWAT types who get their rocks off...") would be a waste of time and energy.
I cannot and will not try to justify the tactics used by departments and officers of whos situations I have no immediate knowledge of. That is ludicrous. Nor can I respond to a non specific claim of mistakes being swept under the rug. I can simply offer you my assurnace that I have never participated in such events.
If you think busting people for some drugz is worth putting civilians and police at risk then we have an irreconcilable difference of opinions.Balko writes: "Until the 1980s, SWAT teams and other paramilitary units were used sparingly, only in volatile, high-risk situations such as bank robberies or hostage situations. Likewise, 'no-knock' raids were generally used only in situations where innocent lives were determined to be at imminent risk. America's War on Drugs has spurred a significant rise in the numbers of such raids, to the point where in some jurisdictions drug warrants are only served by SWAT teams or similar paramilitary units, and the overwhelming numbers of SWAT deployments are to execute drug warrants."
Most aren't. The problem stems (in my opinion) from the militarization of police, and a distinct lack of accountability for corrupt and illegal actions that is systemic. The problem also is present with prosecutors, who rarely face sanctions for gross misconduct, and are often rewarded for it.True. Not all cops are bad.
I'm gonna go ahead and call bullsh!t.In Hudson, the court found that even when police make a clearly illegal no-knock raid, the evidence they seize can still be used against a defendant at trial.
"In other words, police can do what they did to us with impunity" Cheye concluded. "There are no consequences, not for them."
on this point, the muslim world has largely been "successful" with domestic consumptionBTW America is not going to win the "war on drugs" with SWAT raids.
Like politicians, due to their position in society police must be ready to be held to a high standard and have their actions scrutinized by the public. After all, whats that old outdated expression? Something like "serve and protect".
Yes it is difficult to justify deploying a SWAT team against an unarmed family with two labs.
If you think busting people for some drugz is worth putting civilians and police at risk then we have an irreconcilable difference of opinions.
BTW America is not going to win the "war on drugs" with SWAT raids.
Dont know about that...on my last trip down range, I met alot of addicts...mostly heroin. Dont believe the hype...on this point, the muslim world has largely been "successful" with domestic consumption
but then again, goat ****ing is a helluva drug
I actually couldn't figure out what $tinkle was trying to say, since there has been a lot out there about Iran's heroin problem. Something about it being stupidly cheap and transported through their country on it's way from Afghanistan to Europe...Dont know about that...on my last trip down range, I met alot of addicts...mostly heroin. Dont believe the hype...
Planning?Deploying a full SWAT element against an unarmed family with 2 dogs? Yep, sounds like overkill, but palnnign demands that you consider...
1. What is the record of said family?
2. Disposition of dogs?
3. Mission of raid?
4. Equipment available?
5. House or apartment to be raided?
6. Whats the neighborhood like?
7. Time of day for the raid? In an urban or suburban area you have many other civilian considerations to attend to. Traffic, onlookers, neighbors, neighbors kids etc.
Thats just off the top of my head...there are many more considerations...