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I never liked this guy:

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,930
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Sleazattle
Silver said:
Wow, turns out he's living large on the Christian persecution complex.

I'm shocked, truly shocked.

http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1130499506270

Why do high profile politicians (and I'm looking at Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton here as well) almost always seem to have their hand in the cookie jar?
Fixed.

Those who have powerful positions desire power. Money=power. I just don't see many high level politicians doing their job because they believe in the "cause".
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
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Orange County, CA
Westy said:
Those who have powerful positions desire power. Money=power. I just don't see many high level politicians doing their job because they believe in the "cause".
Yeah, but someone who is doing it in the name of God (and who would love to impose a whole bunch of stuff on the way I live my life) should be answering to a higher standard, no?

After all, they claim divine revelation for their beliefs. Must not be worth much if they can't live up to it themselves...
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
38,930
5,617
Sleazattle
Silver said:
Yeah, but someone who is doing it in the name of God (and who would love to impose a whole bunch of stuff on the way I live my life) should be answering to a higher standard, no?

After all, they claim divine revelation for their beliefs. Must not be worth much if they can't live up to it themselves...
It has been my personal experience that power corrupts, no matter the cause. Pushing the cause is just the way these guys get their supporters support.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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Yah know, I'm starting to think some of the these high profile christian conservatives aren't really living the life they claim to advocate.

Surely this is a new thing. Religious Icons of the past have always served us well in philosophy and social action.







Now find the one where he gets caught putting his pee pee in a goldfish or something.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
From my other thread:

I believe there is a "fourth option" for American politics, which follows from the prophetic religious tradition we have described. It is "traditional" or "conservative" on issues of family values, sexual integrity and personal responsibility, while being very "progressive," "populist," or even "radical" on issues like poverty and racial justice. It affirms good stewardship of the earth and its resources, supports gender equality, and is more internationally minded than nationalist - looking first to peacemaking and conflict resolution when it come to foreign policy questions.
Mr. Sekulow seems to fail in the intergrity and repsonsibility area.

This bothers me about those mega dollar TV preachers as well (think 1-800-BIG-HAIR) - the lavish lifestyle they live, while people in this country still go to bed hungry. They need to revisit Luke 19 where Jesus tells the story of a rich dude in Hell (the only account He does of an actual person in an actual eternal Hell) and the only reason he got there was because he was loaded but ignored the beggar that lived outside the gate of his house.

Jesus rarely comes down on people for no believing correctly, but He does tell people who claim to speak for Him, who claim to be His followers and yet don't live out what He teaches that He is going to "spit you out of my mouth".....pretty strong language.

Anyway I thought this guy was pretty on the level and hate to hear how outlandish is lifestyle is.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
kidwoo said:
Yah know, I'm starting to think some of the these high profile christian conservatives aren't really living the life they claim to advocate.
Yeah I think these kind of people are going to have a rude awakening when they meet their Messiah face to face.

kidwoo said:
Surely this is a new thing. Religious Icons of the past have always served us well in philosophy and social action..
Yeah like real social action, feeding people, clothing people, adopting orphans real action not just making speeches about how bad abortion is or using the gays as a social scapegoat for the moral ills of our time..............:angry:
 

Changleen

Paranoid Member
Jan 9, 2004
9,914
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Andyman_1970 said:
Yeah I think these kind of people are going to have a rude awakening when they meet their Messiah face to face.
Every thime they open their wallets? "****, I only have a handfull of $50s left!"
Yeah like real social action, feeding people, clothing people, adopting orphans real action not just making speeches about how bad abortion is or using the gays as a social scapegoat for the moral ills of our time..............:angry:
Angelina Jolie?
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
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TN
Andyman_1970 said:
I think what she is doing with adopting those kids is great and an excellent example of someone with money actually doing something to help the situation rather than just spouting off about it.
I think of it more like Paris Hilton and her Chihuahua.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
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Changleen said:
That's because you're a cynical bastard. :sneaky:
Nah, considering his age I'm sure lots of things make him think of paris hilton and a small furry animal, relevant or not.
 

sanjuro

Tube Smuggler
Sep 13, 2004
17,411
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kidwoo said:
Yah know, I'm starting to think some of the these high profile christian conservatives aren't really living the life they claim to advocate.

Surely this is a new thing. Religious Icons of the past have always served us well in philosophy and social action.
Are you kidding? Do you remember Oral Roberts and his "cough up the dough or God is calling me home?"
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
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sanjuro said:
Are you kidding? Do you remember Oral Roberts and his "cough up the dough or God is calling me back?"
No I'm totally serious.

I mean there's something fishy here...........really.........

I'm not kidding. It's like some christians say one thing but then do another.........I mean it's like really confusing..........

..........and stuff.

I like pie.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
kidwoo said:
No I'm totally serious.

I mean there's something fishy here...........really.........

I'm not kidding. It's like some christians say one thing but then do another.........I mean it's like really confusing..........

..........and stuff.

I like pie.
It’s a product of the last 200 years of Protestant Evangelical doctrine, with the emphasis on making sure people believe the correct things. This conflict finds it’s roots in the difference between Western/Greek thinking (very concrete, defined, emphasis on intellectual understanding) and Eastern/Hebrew thinking (abstract, symbolic, experiential).

For example the Greek understanding of eternal life is something detached from this world, something that happens after this earthly life is over. The Hebrew way of thinking views eternal life as a life lived now in harmony with God. In the Greek way of thinking the emphasis is on proving the existence of God, the Hebrew assumes the existence of God – one reason why you never see me on here trying to “prove” God…….and I can’t stand Christian apologetics.

In the last 200 years, especially in conservative protestant seminaries the emphasis has been on things like systematic theology – systematically defining God. I’ve read several of these text books (before I knew better) and it dawned on me afterwards when I began to question all this fundamentalist stuff I had bought into – how can we finite beings have God “defined”? You would never hear a Jewish rabbi make statements like that, but we Christians try to reduce God to 4 theology lectures……..I don’t get it.

Anyway, that’s why I think things have gone wrong, the emphasis is ensuring people intellectually believe correctly rather than actually live out the teachings of Jesus.
 

kidwoo

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Andyman_1970 said:
Anyway, that’s why I think things have gone wrong, the emphasis is ensuring people intellectually believe correctly rather than actually live out the teachings of Jesus.
Understanding human nature goes a long way in understanding the bastardization that has occured in just about every religion in the history of us apes. I spent k-12 in parochial schools, methodist and episcopalian so my vitriol is just more focused on what I know/despise best.:D

Incidently, this was in Jacksonville Florida (story time, grab a beer) which has a baptist church that takes up and entire city block along with 3 more blocks of parking garages......services televised of course with all the red velvet/satin trimmings. When the state fair would come, you'd get in free with a church bulletin on sundays so I went a few times and got jeeebus put into my heart up on stage and got a hallelujah from a few thousand good followers. Having a fat guy wearing makeup put his sweaty palm on your forehead while he faces the crowd and not you is apparently how this is done.

After you get your little performance they take you into a back room and some dope (who by the grace of gawd happened to be someone I used to skateboard with) reads from prescribed scripture while squeezing your hand and looking like he's trying to keep his eyes in his head he squeezes them so tightly. Knowing the guy sucked because I couldn't stop laughing. It was rad. It taught me what spirituality in gawd was all about........letting everyone else around you know how much you are into gawd apparently makes it more real.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
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kidwoo said:
........letting everyone else around you know how much you are into gawd apparently makes it more real.
Read Matthew 23, Jesus pretty much puts the smack down on those who put on a big religious show but don't really live out the "good deeds" (caring for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the strangers in your land, etc.....) - He even calls them "sons of Hell".

Big elaborate churches like that absolutely disgust me. One thing that has crept into the modern evangelical church is the emphasis on one spiritual condition (are they saved or not) at the expense of someones actual physical condition - do they need food, water, clothes a place to sleep etc. Most churches that are huge like the one you speak of go on and on how those facilities can draw more people to come to know Jesus. I would almost guarantee that churches like that don't spend as much on taking care of those in need in their community as they do on their buildings.

Most pastors and some missionaries I talk to say things like, well their spiritual well being is more important than their physical well being (ie they are not going to Hell). The problem with this is, this is a direct influence from a 1st century heretical philosophy called Gnosticism - where the spiritual is "better" than the material/physical. This is a Greek thinking idea, not a Hebraic one - to a Eastern thinking Jew everything is spiritual, not just the "churchy" stuff. To a Jew salvation is holistic, not just getting one's soul out of Hell for eternity - salvation for a Jew is a picture of someone living in harmony with God now (not just when they get to Heaven), taking care of those in need now not just sharing the Gospel with then and getting them out of Hell.

Anyway.........once you study some history, all this stuff falls into place............
 

kidwoo

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Aug 25, 2003
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Andyman_1970 said:
Read Matthew 23, Jesus pretty much puts the smack down on those who put on a big religious show but don't really live out the "good deeds" (caring for the poor, the widows, the orphans, the strangers in your land, etc.....) - He even calls them "sons of Hell". .
Attah boy!!!

I'm sure you've heard the tems praying horizontally vs. vertically.

Andyman_1970 said:
Anyway.........once you study some history, all this stuff falls into place............
I had 12 years of bible/theology classes as part of a ciriculum. In high school, I didn't want to miss advanced placement classes so I took the theology in summer school (where it could get my full attention of course). I feel pretty stolid in my understanding at least of the western versions and thier implications.......

I despise the warped version of christianity that pervades us as much or more than I think you might. I have a long standing habit of despising people who call themselves christians but then every once in a while someone like you comes along with a clue and I have to revise my terminology.
Cut that out.

I'm pretty confident that you see my sarcasm in this thread though. The events are real, the opinions...........not always so much. I mean afterall there's God and then there's gawd :D
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
kidwoo said:
I despise the warped version of christianity that pervades us as much or more than I think you might.
Actually you might be surprised how much I dispise Christianity and the caricature it has become verses what it orginally started out as......not to mention the rampant hypocrisy and contradiction of most teachers/preachers.


kidwoo said:
I have a long standing habit of despising people who call themselves christians but then every once in a while someone like you comes along with a clue and I have to revise my terminology.
Cut that out.
Sorry no can do, I said on another thread it's my mission in life to change the perception of what a follower of Jesus is all about.

kidwoo said:
I'm pretty confident that you see my sarcasm in this thread though. The events are real, the opinions...........not always so much. I mean afterall there's God and then there's gawd :D
;)